While We Wait: Part 5

North King

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This is a thread for out of character conversations about any NES, NESing in general, or any related topic -- mostly we just want to keep the regular NES threads easy to navigate through and free of spam. The standard forum rules apply, especially the ones against spam.

I took the liberty of creating part 5, as part 4 is getting too long.

Keep it civil; keep it fun. :)
 
Chinese exploration turn 7

For the most part the coastline was hot and dry along its entire length and mountains edged quite close to the coast. the most habitable areas are the most southern coasts you explored starting just west of the large, southern bay. You might think about baja Califirnia for a OTL analog.
 

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And I'm voting for McCain, since I would like an administration interested in rebuilding nuclear power, and pursuing sensible internationalism (hopefully guided by Kissinger) as opposed to Obama's approach, which emulates Kennedy-era Vienna Conference fiascos and Carter-era useless negotiation tactics during our LAST Iranian crisis, not to mention the upcoming one.

I'm probably voting for Obama. McCain's foreign policy statements remind me too much of the strongarming we tried for the past few years, which I'm not terribly fond of, and his economic policy, by his own admission, is deficient. Furthermore, his personality, especially as its coming out in the latest bit of the campaign, has made me less than thrilled with him as a leader -- I dislike jackassery in an important position. His lack of a level head could prove disastrous on the international stage.

The thing that solidifies it for me, however, is McCain's probable appointing of conservative judges that will swing the court away from the civil rights I view as important (no, not abortion) in favor of a single segment of the population.
 
I really cannot decide. I dislike both of them more than I like the other. I will probably vote for McCain in the end, unless something new happens. Like how Obama is now saying we should open up more of Alaska for oil and open the oil reserves (positions he had previously come out against).
 
Aargh, I can't vote, too young, but I would probably vote for McCain if I could, because I feel that we could use nuclear power, and drilling for more oil in Alaska, so prices will lower. Also, I feel that unless Obama is reading a speech or off a teleprompter, he sounds like an erm... idiot.:lol:Lol, inflating your tires and getting a tune-up will save more oil than we could ever drill:lol:, what a maroon:p I also feel that he would take the troops out of the Middle East, and try to ignore Iran, which will lead to the destruction of the U.S., and probably Israel as well, whereas McCain, I don't like him either, but I feel he would be the better candidate to elect.
 
Iran will not lead to the destruction of the USA in the next millennium :p I am relatively hawkish, but it's foolish to think Iran would start lobbing ICBMs in the next four years at New York and Tel Aviv if we don't invade them sometime soon.

I'm voting McCain, but with more reservations than I had a few months ago. I do not think Obama will be as naive in foreign policy as his words might indicate. He has already adjusted his thoughts on Iraq (which is fine by me, adjust your plans as the situation on the ground changes) and he has more international soft power just because he is not associated with Bush-ist policy.
 
Aargh, I can't vote, too young, but I would probably vote for McCain if I could, because I feel that we could use nuclear power, and drilling for more oil in Alaska, so prices will lower.

Sorry, but that's a fallacious argument. Drilling would impact prices in about a decade, or perhaps longer, because it takes a long time to get rigs up and running, and the refineries operating smoothly. There's no quick fix to the oil crisis.

:lol:Lol, inflating your tires and getting a tune-up will save more oil than we could ever drill:lol:, what a maroon:p

Sorry to say, but the joke's on you. :p

TIME article:

TIME said:
The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

I also feel that he would take the troops out of the Middle East, and try to ignore Iran, which will lead to the destruction of the U.S., and probably Israel as well

He's stated he would not back down to Iran, though he's not going to invade it for nor real reason. :p
 
Offshore continental drilling and Shale Oil aside

Honestly if the Canadians are digging up Shale Oil it can't be that bad :p (it will also get more enviromentally friendly if you let the technology develop...)
 
Offshore continental drilling and Shale Oil aside

Honestly if the Canadians are digging up Shale Oil it can't be that bad :p (it will also get more enviromentally friendly if you let the technology develop...)

Oil shale is actually a significant part of the ground if I recall correctly, so it's hard not to tear things up while extracting it. I might tentatively support its extraction, though, especially if adequate reclamation efforts are made for the former fields.
 
Almost every European I've talked to, excepting two hilarious Irish, has fallen head over heels for Obama, not because of his message or policy statements as his image: He's young, he's black, and he's the hip new thing on the street.

I don't think that McCain's lack of polish or his temper are serious issues. One of his predecessors, a certain Washington, was known to have quite the volatile temper at times, and admittedly did not have the most raw intelligence of the Founding Fathers. Given a strong cabinet and a divided Congress, there is very little that McCain could do on force of will alone, as opposed to Obama, who would enjoy easy legislative approval from any Democratic Congress.

And that bothers me. McCain worked within the military and senatorial chains of command for decades, but Obama has never run anything larger than a Senator's office, and that for not even one term. Graduating from that to the presidency would require much more than charisma. It would require force of will.

Having, among other things, his teeth bashed in and his legs broken by his Vietnamese torturers, Mr. McCain has acquired a certain set of attributes that the law school education Obama enjoyed did not exactly provide. One of them is not giving a rat's ass when what you say isn't popular, and not being afraid of contact with, and criticism from, all comers.

Not to insult Obama or his choreographers, but the man is limper than a wet biscuit. His positions seemlessly shift with the winds of public opinion. He went from nobly refusing to disown his former pastor, to doing just that, after said pastor appeared at the National Press Club and acted like an idiot. As soon as the threat of media acclaim began to die, Obama sprang into action.

His policy positions are vague and aimed to please. And his foreign policy, well. This man is markedly incapable of understanding, let alone commanding, the military involved in an Iraqi conflict that only now shows signs of permanently stabilizing. Withdrawal, or any significant drawdown SOON, would be just in time to reignite the bloodbath.

Obama is not strong or experienced enough to deal with these challenges, because he is an excellent politician.
 
Sorry, but that's a fallacious argument. Drilling would impact prices in about a decade, or perhaps longer, because it takes a long time to get rigs up and running, and the refineries operating smoothly. There's no quick fix to the oil crisis.

I'm sorry, but prices have been coming down since there's been talk of drilling, speculators and w/e are selling their shares, thus bringing down prices, if they actually started drilling, prices would come down very quickly.

Sorry to say, but the joke's on you.

TIME article:


Quote:
Originally Posted by TIME
The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

Erm, I don't know many people who let their tires deflate anyways, and most people already keep their cars maintained, so w/e.
 
Mccain, if I had a vote. Obama's tax hikes could come up to 75% on my family.
 
Why is it a badge of honour he was tortured? Idiot shouldn't have got caught in the first place! I'm not going to give someone praise for doing it wrong...
 
Almost every European I've talked to, excepting two hilarious Irish, has fallen head over heels for Obama, not because of his message or policy statements as his image: He's young, he's black, and he's the hip new thing on the street.

I don't get why how other people view a candidate should bother me, unless it will significantly impact his performance... Oh no, he's a celebrity! That's not a valid criticism, in my book.

I don't think that McCain's lack of polish or his temper are serious issues. One of his predecessors, a certain Washington, was known to have quite the volatile temper at times, and admittedly did not have the most raw intelligence of the Founding Fathers. Given a strong cabinet and a divided Congress, there is very little that McCain could do on force of will alone, as opposed to Obama, who would enjoy easy legislative approval from any Democratic Congress.

The Democrats will probably not win a filibuster-proof Senate majority, so it's not like we're going to have a tyrannical rule of one party. Heck, even when that did happen, nothing terrible happened: look at FDR's terms, or LBJ's.

The Presidency has also evolved since Washington; he barely went abroad (I don't actually remember him doing it at all), rarely met with foreign leaders, and had a much less prominent role compared to Congress. In this day and age, the CiC's role has grown a lot.

And that bothers me. McCain worked within the military and senatorial chains of command for decades, but Obama has never run anything larger than a Senator's office, and that for not even one term. Graduating from that to the presidency would require much more than charisma. It would require force of will.

I think he has force of will, and I don't particularly think McCain has a great experience advantage. He has what, a Senate career and a career in the military that was jump-started because he was a legacy from his father? That's not executive experience. In my view, you can't pull the experience argument, and it wouldn't matter if you could, because nothing really prepares you for running the United States.

Having, among other things, his teeth bashed in and his legs broken by his Vietnamese torturers, Mr. McCain has acquired a certain set of attributes that the law school education Obama enjoyed did not exactly provide. One of them is not giving a rat's ass when what you say isn't popular, and not being afraid of contact with, and criticism from, all comers.

There's a certain something that's also needed, especially when you're representing a nation, and that is restraint, civility, and suave, characteristics that McCain notably lacks. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy (most of the time, though why he's running the campaign he is is beyond me), but I don't think he'd be a better president than Obama.

Not to insult Obama or his choreographers, but the man is limper than a wet biscuit. His positions seemlessly shift with the winds of public opinion. He went from nobly refusing to disown his former pastor, to doing just that, after said pastor appeared at the National Press Club and acted like an idiot. As soon as the threat of media acclaim began to die, Obama sprang into action.

Oh, please. You should know better than to criticize politicians for doing this; McCain himself changed his own position on offshore drilling because he found the one wedge issue that would actually matter to people.

His policy positions are vague and aimed to please. And his foreign policy, well. This man is markedly incapable of understanding, let alone commanding, the military involved in an Iraqi conflict that only now shows signs of permanently stabilizing. Just in time to reignite the bloodbath.

The withdrawal plan was approved by the Iraqi president. I like you, Thy, but I'm going to trust the man who's had more trips to Iraq. :p
 
I'm sorry, but prices have been coming down since there's been talk of drilling, speculators and w/e are selling their shares, thus bringing down prices, if they actually started drilling, prices would come down very quickly.

Yeah, prices are dropping slightly: that's a momentary fluctuation. Please, the rumor of a drilling wouldn't drop gas prices 20 cents on their own; there are other factors at work here. You're not actually going to raise supply for a while after the wells are operational.

Seriously, get some perspective: gas prices are not going down. They've risen massively in the last decade alone (about three dollars), and a little drilling offshore is not going to help that.

Erm, I don't know many people who let their tires deflate anyways, and most people already keep their cars maintained, so w/e.

Obviously people notice a flat tire, but a slightly deflated one is much less noticeable, and damaging to fuel economy.
 
I cannot adequately continue this conversation via iPhone, much as I'd like to, but I'll only mention that FDR's domestic policy didn't exactly stop...or slow...or reverse the Depression, and LBJ locked us into a disasterous Vietnam situation.
 
I cannot adequately continue this conversation via iPhone, much as I'd like to, but I'll only mention that FDR's domestic policy didn't exactly stop...or slow...or reverse the Depression

That's ridiculous revisionism that's only popular because FDR had the temerity to be a Democrat who did things right.

LBJ locked us into a disasterous Vietnam situation.

A result of Eisenhower's stupid containment policy combined with not bothering to help the French.
 
That's ridiculous revisionism that's only popular because FDR had the temerity to be a Democrat who did things right.

No it isn't. His programs did almost nothing to stop the depression itself (I will grant that they helped individuals survive, but it was essentially welfare, with work required) The depression was still on a downward movement until:

His programs look good because in the end the US drafted 22% (or so) of the workforce into the military due to WWII. This caused the appearance of the end of the depression. However due to rationing people couldn't spend the money they were making during this time period which forced people to save it. Also all the soldiers couldn't spend their money as they were at war, also forcing them to save it. So when they all came back and rationing ended people were flush with hard currency and finally had something to spend it on.

This is the only time I can find where a major conflict actually led to a true positive economic development for a nation. WWII is an anomaly in this. The main reasons are because it forced people to save money, forcefully gave money to a huge portion of the population, and was never attacked on home soil. (leaving aside Hawaii)
 
Why is it a badge of honour he was tortured? Idiot shouldn't have got caught in the first place! I'm not going to give someone praise for doing it wrong...

Have you read up on McCain's time in the POW camp? I mean, really?
 
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