Nobles Club XI - Catherine!

Bleys

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Time for another edition of the Nobles Club. This time, we turn our sights to Catherine of Russia!

A known backstabber, Catherine has traits that truly excel when REXing. CRE means fast border pops and IMP means fast settlers. But beware, overexpansion is a very real possibility in the hands of the human player.

Here is our leader, along with her UU and UB:
Spoiler :

Her UB is a late game beefed up Laboratory, awesome if your still in an SE this late:
Spoiler :

Her UU is a very nice upgrade to the Cavalry, with an additional 50% bonus vs Mounted units.
Spoiler :

And finally our start. You will all be happy to hear that this is a much more conventional map this time.
Spoiler :

And this edition is the start of a new feature in our club, called Rolos Map Tips. Since they are in a spoiler, you can choose to read them, or play it "cold". I will no longer be offering any information about the maps outside of these tips, so that those who like to be surprised will be able to play along with those who want a bit of direction.
Spoiler Rolo's Map Tips :
Well, the lesson here today is....

You guessed, how to REX responsibly.

Well, in this game we have a lot of land to use and your nearest neighbours are out of a rapid rush radius.
So you have to choose how to develop your land and wich cities to settle first ( a thing that can make a huge diference ). And there are no particular easy choices on that....

A final small tip: REX is not only about spamming settlers. you also need a army with that..... There is no need for you to make cities for a more agressive AI to pick


And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats dont fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Once again, special recognition goes out to r_rolo1, our Map Maker, who sets these up for us (so I can play without peeking, heh, the WB needs to be modified) and also to Krick19, who came up with the idea of running a series like this for the less confident players. It is our goal to get folks to play and post without feeling self-conscious about being a "n00b" or asking dumb things. There are NO stupid questions! Learning this game is a process, not an event.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XI - Catherine". This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs. The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main affects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech Archery themselves.

In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown.
 

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Interesting start, dunno exactly where to settle. In place looks not too bad, I want to believe one of the openings in the forest to the west is some interesting hidden resource. Moving 1NE would give cows as well in the BFC but sacrificing one grassland tile and are we sitting on a plains hill? I can't see it clearly on the pic. Anyway, capital site looks like a production center more than anything else to me, depends on what's hidden in the fog. But with all those hills and leeves it can make quite some hammers. Though it's a bit food shy.

Edit: umm, I just assumed the river touched the hill where the settler stands, perhaps it doesn't, then leeves is out and then I'd probably move 1NE unless moving the scout 1SE+1SW shows something more interesting.
 
Great, thanks Bleys! It looks like a good start, and I'd be willing to be there's another resource in the fog. I'll probably settle 1NE; Losing a bit of grassland won't matter for the cows.
 
I will follow the update format for a change. 4k BC is all I can do till I get home.

I'm a little torn here. We have a good chance at metal if we settle in place but we don't get cows (or riverside) then. 1 NE looks a little better for early production (more hills, and they're the more efficient grassland variety) but a little weaker for rushing if we're giving up BFC copper (not MUCH weaker though).

Note: The capitol itself is very poor in commerce at the moment. IMO a lot of players don't realize the effect early passive commerce has on the feasibility of REX. The gold mines in the zara game (and his ORG trait) basically let me cover a HUGE area and REX 6 cities before I had courthouses up and not mind much. In that game we also had seafood - we do not here. REX, but tread carefully if the surrounding tiles don't have much commerce to pay for it.

As for me, since we're creative and I can probably hook up metal (or horse!) even if I move 1 NE I'll probably move 1 NE to grab the cow. An extra, guaranteed early tile is just worth it to me (even if the special resource is iron, the delay is a bit much, and if it's horse it's OK to not have it in BFC as cows are better tiles just to work).

As usual my game will highlight a lot of war. OK, back to work now.
 
looks like a resonable start, 1NE looks a good move, maybe it would be wise to move the scout 1SE then 1SW just to be sure there's not some goodies just out of view.

Not convinced there are enough hills, all look like grassland hills, capital will be food rich but commerce and production low. I'd like to aim for a strong food & commerce second city with the 3rd as a commerce centre. 4th and 5th cities should be military orienated if possible. All this sounds good in theory, untill the map is explored we have no idea of what is possible.

I'm sure first build will be worker, first tech will be Bronze Working, then choppity, choppity, chop!
 
I had a great first segment, and I think I REXed alright. Not great, but hey I need advice.

Prince-Epic
2000BC
Spoiler :


Opening Info:

Build Paths:

Moscow: Worker-Warrior-Settler-Settler(partially whipped)-Worker(whipped)-The Great Wall(I whipped a settler in the middle)
St. Petersburg:Worker
Novgorod:Warrior

Tech Path: Agri.-AH-BW-Masonry-Wheel-Pottery-Myst.


Play Segment:

Well, to start off, my scout was in a completely different tile, giving me an interesting view. I settled 1NE to grab the cows, and I got a pleasant surprise: Riverside pigs!

Opening shot:


Moscow:


I research Agriculture, and dial up a worker. A few turns later, Ag is in, and I start on Animal Husbandry.



Around this point I meet Ragnar (yay).



With my worker done, I started a warrior, and sent my worker off to farm the corn.

I discovered AH and I proceeded to study BW for Slavery/Chopping.



After I finished my warrior, I started a settler. Soon after this, in rapid sucession I meet Pacal(Thanks Rolo!) and Shaka(Thanks even more!) ;):


(I forgot a Pacal pic)

I then discovered BW, and whipped out a second settler. (I started Masonry) With two settlers, I quickly settled one for cows/stone/some FPs...



I noticed I had no copper and decided the horses had to be a top priority to keep my power up. So:



St. Petersburg started a Worker; Novgorod a Warrior. Moscow whipped a worker for Novgorod.

With Masonry in, I started on The Great Wall, mainly for the espionage points. This time, I'm trying to have a good espionage game as well as REXing. I also started researching the Wheel for Chariots.

After some chopping for TGW, I think I'll get it. I also whipped a third settler when Moscow became unhappy. And that's where I ended.

My land(the sign is where my third settler is going):



Moscow:



St. Petersburg:



Novgorod:


Strategy: Finish TGW, REX, and try to turn Pacal and Shaka against each other!



Advice?
 
Going to go with emp/normal.
Basic outline of my pre-game plan is this:
Imperialistic/Creative fueled super REX teching towards currency and CoL for Caste and courthouses followed by a hard beeline for mil trad and rifling for cossacks.

SE + Cossacks = Domination/Conquest.
 
Decided to try on prince just for the kicks of rexx.. I'm up to ~1500BC now, might do a report later.

@Krick19:
Spoiler :
A couple of things:
Why does Moscow have no garrison? It's unhappy at size 3!!
Why are you researching mysticism? I don't really see the need for monuments as creative leader.. Writing for libraries would be more important, especially with high-food capital.
 
Zanttu:
Spoiler :
You're right I need a garrison. I used my warrior for settler escort. As for the mysticism, I was considering the Oracle, but changed my mind, and I decided just to finish out the tech.
 
Going to give this a shot at Prince/Epic. (I've come to love Epic. Everything is so much easier to course-correct, given my sloppy tendencies.)

As for the start, I am going to give something a shot that I learned in a Nobles discussion here in the forums, and that is I will probably take a little stroll with my settler before dropping down. As TheMeInTeam said, it would be nice to find a little commerce in the capital if I can.
 
Monarch/Normal to 1000BC

Spoiler :

First time as Cathy, not the same since the Cossack was nerfed and the BTS cavlary > Rifling. Boo.
Settled 1NW to get the river and the cows, my scout was to the 2SW (where i'd planned to move him) bagged a Hillpig in the BFC, cows+corn. Luckly there are 2 plains hills in the BFC, easlier to see on a normal view rather than some fancy mod ;)

Built worker and researched BW -AH -AG should have done AG first as potenial growth time was wasted waiting for AH.
Worker also built mines as irrigation and pastures were not available - school boy error.

Popped 2 maps from huts, could just see the Zulu in the south, popped warrior and some cash.


Made the following dotmap, need to settle the southern cites first keep old shaka at bay,
i choose to settle to the edge of the jungle, too much work to clear it, i'm going to let shaka sette and clean for me.


Will settle 1,2,3 then city to the right of 2 claim the gems.

I explore further south and meet Pacal, he and shaka are now on the edge of the jungle and i have not one city, really need to spam settlers quick.



I'm not too worried about Pacal, he never seems to build quickly, always likes to go relgious and have 3 or so cities, i use him to build shines and found relgions, then take his cities and retire him.


I decided to settle site 2 first, then site 1,
3rd went to the left of 2 to claim the Gems,was going to settle on the X SE of Cap but then found a barb city. Also pacal may expand before i can get there and by working 2 Gems it should equal out maintenance costs. Stonehenge was built in cap around the time of the 1st settler, helped by chop. I plan to settle the prophet to help with commerce.
Missed the GW by 1 turn - very annoyed :mad:
I'd skimped on warriors due to the REX, immeadilty after losing the GW I now have serious barb incursions, I emergency tech to Archer then IW.
Luckly the barb city is staffed with warriors, helpful as i have no metal. Will take it as my leisure as it's cut off from the AI.



Plan is to build an Army soon as i see Iron, fingers crossed. If not, archers then take the barb city for horse.
If i have iron, i'll then raise barb city and settle next door.
Short term peace is the way, consoladation and organic expansion.

Unless shaka comes knocking then it may be all over.



 

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Think i will give this a shot.

From the starting shot i agree with TMIT about moving 1 to the Northeast to get the cows and have a great production capital. There are a couple grassland river tiles for cottages for bureaucracy. If i do end up missing strategic resource it will be close by for a second city or in the 3rd ring of expansion of the capital.
 
Noble/Epic
Spoiler :
OK, it's Noble's club so I played noble.
4000BC. My scout started in a different spot and revealed pigs 2E1S and grassland cows 3S1E. So I moved my settler 1SE for the river bonus. I settled on a hill so there is going to be a little less production.
Started researching BW but popped it from a hut 3 turns later so i switched to agg-AH. I should have both completed by the time the worker is completed and the corn is farmed.
Worker done. Started him on the corn then the cows. Cows are better than the pigs at this point because of Imp bonus to settlers and because with the cows and corn I don't have food issues. Started a warrior in Moscow while researching Archery since BW reveals i have no copper. Worker begins mining the pig hill. I do this when I have multiple food resources since it provides a food nuetral grassland mine. Once I can raise the happy cap I will pasture the pigs. Archery finishes a couple turns before the warrior so i put two archers in the build list then a settler. Researching masonry because I spot stone to the south. I settled 2S of the stone to claim some rice as well. I have a couple grasslands a floodplain and rice for food and nice hills. This will be my military city. I like the location strategically because it is down by my southern border where the Ai is located. This means troops are closer to any problems. I researched pottery next to start dropping cottages. 2nd city went 5W of the mititary city. Farming the corn and three flood plains means I can cottage the plains and grasslands. Probably about 12-14 cottages. Built GW in Moscow because barbs annoy me. Next city went 1W of the eastern gems. This effectively seals off my lands. teched IW and discovered Iron where we thought it would be. Settled 1W of it to claim the clams and settled north to grab the crabs and silver. Another city claimed the plains cows and the northern wine. With the final city for the round going 5 west of moscow for the rice and remaining wine. I have this sick sense of dejavu. rolo? you haven't been a naughty boy have you? Anyway. I have cottaged moscow pretty well as well as the city to the SW. I think I will hold off on a GP farm until I capture Madrid. Ooops it isn't madrid. Maybe I'm just Greedy
 
Having just joined this club, playing Noble/Normal without the map spoiler, I am a tad confused by the opening comments.
Spoiler :
Cows? What cows? My 4000 BC 15 tile opening save has none. Mind you, while trying to correct things the computer displayed something rather useful.

That said, I'm inclined to take the extra hammer by settling in place, build a scout, research bronze (barbarian uprising-burned, more than once) and BFC-Rex if the connections are close to workable.
 
Spoiler :
I have this sick sense of dejavu. rolo? you haven't been a naughty boy have you? Anyway. I have cottaged moscow pretty well as well as the city to the SW. I think I will hold off on a GP farm until I capture Madrid. Ooops it isn't madrid. Maybe I'm just Greedy
Spoiler :
Yup, exactly what you are thinking ;)

Before you start calling me lazy boy, it was Bleys that asked for it and it was him that asked for the things that are diferent.....

BTW, congratulations, you were the first one to notice :beer:
 
Spoiler :
Yup, exactly what you are thinking ;)

Before you start calling me lazy boy, it was Bleys that asked for it and it was him that asked for the things that are diferent.....

BTW, congratulations, you were the first one to notice :beer:

Spoiler :
It dawned on me when i was considering puting the maoa statue on the tip at the NE...which is where I put them when i played the Mansa map.
 
I am a tad confused by the opening comments.
Cows? What cows? My 4000 BC 15 tile opening save has none. Mind you, while trying to correct things the computer displayed something rather useful.
Due to the nature of the WB file save, the starting unit for the human player can appear in a variety of places. In fact, if you re-start the scenario 3 times, you will likely get 3 different starting spots for your Scout.

The screenshot I put in the OP shows some cows, and if your scout started due south of the settler, you would have seen more cows, so no worries, heh, theres LOTS of beef on this map.
 
Ok, I though I'd be the only one, normally Monarch level player going noble, but seems some others got my idea as well ;)

Well, anyway, it's going to be a fun game nevertheless, I'm tired on constantly getting way behind in tech from my recent "monarch starting in isolation" games.

So here goes
Noble/Epic 4000BC-825BC (I had intended to post the BUG-MOD log so you all could read all the important steps that happens, but unfortunately, I must've misconfigured it as it didn't log anything...) will fix that for next post.

If you haven't researched IW yet there may be a bit of a spoiler here... So don't read unless you want to know all early strategic resources placements.

Spoiler :


First thing first, I will try to play a monarch level inspired Noble game, thus I won't aim for every wonder, actually, no early wonders is on my plan atm. I will rex peacefully as hard as I can and stop when I'm on the verge of strikes.

Ok, I settled Moscow 1NE, gaining Cows, Pigs and the corn in the BFC.


Research path went: AH (to connect cows and pigs, Agri can wait a bit) -> BW (we want some bronze, but unfortunately, no Bronze around)

Here I decided for my first city, with no Bronze I really wanted chariots, so second city had to hook up Horses, placed St Petersburg to the East of moscow, gaining Rice, Horses and two wine.

After BW, research went to The Wheel to be able to hook up horses, the Agri, pottery, writing, IW (YES, Iron just outside capital BFC), Alphabeth

Building in Moscow went something like worker, warrior, warrior, settler, warrior worker, warrior, settler, chariot (I may have missed a warrior or added one somewhere, I had hoped the log would provide me with this...)

I was somewhat lucky with the huts, gained a warrior and a scout, some money and some maps, no techs though.

I found three happy neighbours, Pacal, Ragnar and Shaka. Oh my all down to the south, when writing came around I decided to open borders with Ragnar but noone else, I want to block Pacal and Shaka in before they can expand north, Ragnar seems to be way down south so no worries he'll expand up to my parts for some time.

So my Rexing became a fairly aggressive placement strategy. I did manage to get most cities where I wanted them, though Shaka spoiled one citysite but the backup plan wasn't too bad.
Here's the land at 825BC:

Southern russian empire:


Northern russian empire:


Do notice I haven't chopped any of Moscows nice forests, I do intend to keep them around. Unfortunately Moscow will not be my capital when my cottage heavy commercecity is founded south of moscow. Moscow will be a forest heavy, GPP/production site until National park comes around, I've always wanted a city with food sources for GPs and 10+ forests for free specialist from the NP.

And the all interesting powergraphs, I'm afraid I'm low on spypoints on Pacal and Ragnar so only Shaka is shown, but to be fair, Shaka is my main early concern. I've just set production to massproduce swords and axes, there might even be an early war in the next segment.


Research so far, nothing much to brag about:


Next I will see what I can get from the AI after Alphabet is done (probably all the religion ones, saving me researching them to reach CoL and Monarchy which is my main research priorities atm. I need monarchy for happiness reasons, for HR and to hook up the wine. Calendar will be needed on this map pretty early as well.

That's all for now, see you all in the next segment.

 
Invisible GP and Missionaries, possible bug?
Spoiler :


The Icon for the GS is missing, on the unit toolbar above the sleep button. If i fortfy the GS then he disapears, you have to move the stack out of the city and then one by one move the units off the tile, then the GS reapears. Same for the missionaries. It can look like you have a great warrior! or a Hindu Archer. Is this just me?


 

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