News: BOTM 10 Pre-game Discussion

DynamicSpirit

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BOTM 10: Holy Roman Empire

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/botm10civ.jpg[/img]

It's arrived... this is the month when you get to find out whether deity BtS is as hard as deity vanilla or Warlords! Good luck... (you'll need it :devil:)

Game Details:

Game settings:
Civilization: Holy Roman Empire (Leader: Charlemagne; Traits: Protective and Imperialistic)
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Deity
Map: Tectonics (60% water)
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Cold
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Epic
Options: None.
Defeat Conditions: all enabled

Charlemagne:
Charlemagne is Protective and Imperialistic, and the Holy Romans start with mysticism and hunting. Protective gives free city garrison I and drill I promotions to archery and gunpowder units and double production speed of castles and walls. Imperialistic gives +100% great general emergence and 50% faster settler production.

Unique unit: Landesknecht (replaces pikeman)
The pikeman has a strength of 6 but gets +100% against mounted units. The landsknecht gets +100% against melee units too, meaning that, unlike pikemen, they can stand up to macemen. Both units require iron and engineering. Personally I think the landesknecht is pretty powerful for defending your stacks - but only if you can first prove your worth on deity by being able to build it before the AI has musketmen.

Unique building: Rathaus (replaces courthouse)
Like the courthouse, the rathaus gives +2 espionage points per turn and can turn one citizen into a spy. But where the courthouse only gives -50% maintenance, the rathaus gives -75%.


Starting screenshot
This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):



Adventurer Class bonuses:
  1. Fishing: You start knowing fishing (just so your scout doesn't feel too isolated over there...)
  2. Overfishing We want to give you a helping hand at overfishing the clams. So you start with a workboat.
  3. Worker: You have a worker (sharing a tile with the settler).

Because of the difficulty level, we are relaxing adventurer eligibility: If you wish, you can play adventurer provided you have never won any Civ deity game before. Remember though that adventurer submissions are not eligible for any awards.

Challenger Class Equalisers:
  1. No techs: Guess what. Yep. Your people know nothing at all.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open on 15 September 2008. From that date, you'll be able to get the starting saves here. Use the same URL to submit your completed entry, which you must do by 15 October 2008.

Civ version

This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Warlords or vanilla Civ), patched to version 3.17. It must also be played with the HOF mod version 3.17.001. Note that for game security reasons this HOF mod version requires you to be logged in with an account that has admin privileges when you are playing for your game to be a valid entry to the GOTM competition. You'll see a warning dialog if you attempt to start a session without appropriate privileges.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.
 
Extra info: The adventurer workboat is 1S of the scout. This forces an extra tile to be visible 2SW of the workboat. For the sake of fairness I'll tell you here that that tile is ocean, it doesn't show you any extra land. (EDIT: Ooops, correction. The workboat has a visibility of 1 over the ocean so it doesn't show any extra tiles. But now this post has been up for 5 minutes and some people may have read it, I'll have to leave it up ;) )

If you're wondering, Deity AI starts with 4 archers, 2 scouts, 1 worker and 2 settlers. If I've understood the XML correctly (which isn't 100% guaranteed), the AI only requires 60% of the hammers to build things, 80% of the food to grow, and your research takes 30% longer than the AI.
 
Blah! This protective with stone just asks for the cashing overflow bug abuse from walls...

I propose the BOTM Gauntlet condition: Contender, Final Score. If the tourny is as were the previous Deity ones, we'll be dying like flies soon without any handicaps.
 
Think I'll pass on this one... what a waste of a good leader too, I usually enjoy Charlemagne ...
 
Well, I'm going to try. I can't really pass prince yet, but I'll offer up my low score. Going to try contender just in case I get lucky. Hope to lose to a space race.
 
I've got a few XOTM wins over AI lately, so I think I'll go for Contender save so that I can make a fair comparison to gauge how well I did relative to everyone else. That's hard to do unless a lot of people are taking Adventurer save this time. If so, I could change my mind, just to make the game take more than 11-12 minutes.

What kind of sick mind puts our only unit on (apparently) a different landmass?:crazyeye:

I guess scouting is not an option. :shake: The only place that makes any sense to settle is in place, imo. Adventurers may have more scouting options... the workboat should help there a lot, unless you are in a hurry for a clam bake?


Blah! This protective with stone just asks for the cashing overflow bug abuse from walls...
@Lexad: What bug abuse is that? Can you explain quickly or direct us to a thread that explains it? C'mon... share the knowledge. We need all the help we can get!:please:

Anybody know what kind of landmasses to expect in Tectonics map? I have never played this map type before. So there is at least that... I'll learn something even if it turns out to be a very short game. OTOH, if we are in isolation, I bet it is possible to last a vaery long time... but fewer winners. Just guessing.

So, to improve over my last Deity effort, I will focus on (1) founding a second city before I am destroyed (2) building some kind of defensive unit better than a warrior before I get DOW'd by someone (3) Survive at least to 1000BC. Believe me... these are fairly ambitious goals.:p

My stretch goals are to build a wonder or found a religion or (dare I consider) capture a city. It would be nice to be alive at the 500AD spoiler date, too... but I fear that is probably too much to hope for.:nuke:
 
Yeeepa!

I intend to win this game, so I'll need all the help I can get:

1.- How is Tectonics like?
2.- 60% water is low, medium or high water level?
3.- What does Imperialistic do? I mean, the 50% faster settler production is a 50% bonus on your hammers only? Or does it apply to food+hammers?
4.- The Courthouse doesn't give +2 espionage GPP but +2 EP, right?
5.- Can stone really be over grassland? I had never seen that before.
6.- How comes the Scout and the Settler are appart? Did they divorce? Can they walk over Clams?


In two words, the golden walls consist on prebuilding a Wall, then on the final turn chop 22 forest and whip the walls. With the bonusses from traits and stone you get a huge hammer overflow and all the hammers over a certain limit get transformed into gold. So you make a huge amount of money out of a few trees and worker turns. And you get a nice wall to boost about on top of it!
 
@jesusin:
3: hammers only
4: right, EP only
5: afaik it depends on map script
6: who said that scouts can't swim?

now my questions:
7: city on grassland stone doesn't give +1 hammer, right?
8: can I get access to the stone without a city on the other landmass?
9: is it officially allowed to use the golden wall bug ?
10: how much money does it generate, and where's the limit?

I intend to build up a strong espionage economy, given the stone, traits, and deity difficulty. Maybe settling on the forest 1N could be a bright thing to do, provided the answer to (8) is "true"...
 
now my questions:
7: city on grassland stone doesn't give +1 hammer, right?
8: can I get access to the stone without a city on the other landmass?
9: is it officially allowed to use the golden wall bug ?
10: how much money does it generate, and where's the limit?

7: right - 1 hammer only ( as for ivory at grassland....)
8: yes - culture must cover him + fort
9: SGOTM6 - as example
10: stone +100%, defencive +100% to the real hammer amount. Limit? How many tiles you can chop per single turn? I think you'll find limit there :D
 
I've fixed the typo about the Rathaus espionage points.

Settling on grassland stone gives the usual 2food, 1hammer, 1commerce on the city tile. I don't believe there's any way to get access to resources on a landmass that you don't have a city on (other than by trading for them, obviously). (EDIT: I'm not sure what Gosha90 means about a fort, I just tried in worldbuilder and putting a fort on the stone doesn't give you the stone even if it's in your cultural borders. Also worth pointing out that culture doesn't go more than 2 tiles over sea anyway no matter how high the culture in a city (that includes land tiles that can only be covered via the sea)).

I've not heard of the golden wall bug before, I'll have to investigate to get a definite ruling if it is an exploit. However, SGOTMs are played under the same rules as GOTMs as regards exploits, so if it was allowed in the SGOTM that would imply it's fine in a GOTM too.
 
8.- In general, no. Maybe if there is a river in the stone landmass and you connect the stone to the river with a road, and you know sailing and the stone is in your borders. I have never tried that.

9.- I think it is, since it was widely used in an official competition, SWOTM. A definitive answer from @DS would be appreciated.

10.- There is a first block of hammers that go into building the Wall. There is a second block (I think equal in size to the first one) that is hammer overflow for your next build. All the rest of the hammers get converted to gold at a 1:1 ratio. Every time I have said "hammer" in this sentences I am refering to hammers after modifiers, not to base hammers.
There is no limit, except that you can only whip once and you need to have the forests and the workers available.

EDIT: double crosspost
 
Also worth pointing out that culture doesn't go more than 2 tiles over sea anyway no matter how high the culture in a city (that includes land tiles that can only be covered via the sea)).

Question 11.

11.- Could you please elaborate a little more on this. For example, settling in place and having 75000 culture, would put only the scout tile on our borders? Or that tile and the one 1W too? Or..?
 
Also worth pointing out that culture doesn't go more than 2 tiles over sea anyway no matter how high the culture in a city (that includes land tiles that can only be covered via the sea)).

It's correct if you say about sea tiles without 2 gold (tiles in an open sea :confused: I do not know how I must call them exactly). In a case of shelf tiles (they'v got 2 gold) you are wrong - culture will spread as far as it possible at current culture rate. So in a case of islands, culture must spreads over all of them I think.

In other words: culture spreads like galley + 1 tile more.
 
11.- Could you please elaborate a little more on this. For example, settling in place and having 75000 culture, would put only the scout tile on our borders? Or that tile and the one 1W too? Or..?

I've just generated a different map, used worldbuilder to put every building possible in the capital so it was generating ~ 3000 culture/turn, and let its culture grow to 75000:



I think that tells you everything about how culture expands. I think the rule is that it can never go more than two tiles away from the landmass the city is on.
 
Anybody sees any reason not to settle in place?
 
I've just generated a different map, used worldbuilder to put every building possible in the capital so it was generating ~ 3000 culture/turn, and let its culture grow to 75000:
erm, you can edit the city culture in citi menu in WB :)
 
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