Upgradable Heroes

cyther

Lord of the Dance
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,033
Location
Fane of Lessers
Changes to the Game

Heroes get more advanced versions of themselves to upgrade into.
The Grigori get a new unit: Grigori Trainer
The Grigori Trainer is a unit that when built can train the disorganized Grigori militia or Heroes into a strong army capable of fighting any war with skill and strength.

This version is currently compatable with Ffh2 patch s

Download:
Download Here

Thanks to:
Civfanatics (For existing)
FfH2 modteam (For creating the Best mod of all time)
All the people who posted in the thread (Because I took all your ideas;))
 
Heroes for upgrades:
Spoiler :
Donal
Paladin:
11 Strength +5 Holy (can use weapons)
2 Movement
Req Rightousness
Phalanx:
16 Strength (can use weapons)
2 Movement
Req Mithril Weapons

Corlindale
Corlindale the Shining:
0/5 Strength
2 Movement
Req Omniscience
Starts with Immortal

Basium
Basium the Undying:
12 Strength +4 Holy (can use weapons
2 Movement
Req Divine Essence
Immortality

Eurabatres
Eurabatres of the Kuriotates:
23 Strength +2Aff Sun
3 Movement
Req Omniscience
Can become Cardith (less strength, can cast hide)

Barnaxus
Barnaxus Advanced:
7 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
Req Iron Working
Barnaxus Armored:
15 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
Req Mithril Weapons
Barnaxus Berzerk:
17/10 Strength (can use weapons)
2 Movement
Req Rage
Causes Collateral Damage

Teutorix
Sniper:
15 Strength
2 Movement
Req Precision
Starts with Hidden

Gilden
Gilden the Crossbowman:
15 Strength
1 Movement
1 First strike
Req Machinery
Gilden the Longbowman:
7/8 Strength
1 Movement
1 First Strike
Req Bowyers
Gilden the Marksman:
15/12 Strength
1 Movement
1 First Strike
Req Precision
Starts with Marksman

Rathus
Shadebow:
15/12 Strength
2 Movement
2 First Strikes
Req Precision
Shadow:
15/10 Strength
2 Movement
2 First Strikes
Req Guilds
Starts with Invisable
20% withdraw

Guybrush
Overlord:
13 Strength (can use weapons)
3 Movement
1 First Strike, 2 Chances
Req Divine Essence
Immortal
Starts with Waterwalking

Magnadine
Great Knight:
14 Strength (can use weapons)
4 Movement
Req Armored Cavalry
Starts with Command 1+2

Govanan
Caswallen:
8 Strength
1 Movement
Req Pass through Ether

Maros
Defender:
12/18 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
+50% City Defence
Req Mithril Weapons

Rantine
Bhall's Champion:
6 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
+25% vs. Meele
Starts with Fire 1 + Channeling 1
Req Iron Working
Enraged:
12/6 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
Causes collateral damage
+25% vs. Meele
Req Rage
Fireblade:
8 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
+25% vs. Meele
Starts with Fire 2+3 and twincast
Req Omniscience

Losha
Lady Losha:
13 Strength (can use weapons)
1 Movement
Immortal
Starts with Mind 1-3, Channeling 3
Gains Mind 3 after killing a living unit
Req Divine Essence

Alazkan
Illusionist:
8/6 Strength +2 Poison
2 Movement
1 first strike
Immune to first strikes
-50% in cities
Starts with Channneling1-3, Mind1, Shadow1, Illusionist
Req Strength of will
Shadow:
10 Strength +3 Poison
2 movement
1 first strike
Immune to first strikes
-50% in cities
Starts with Invisible, Marksman, Hidden Nat.
Req guilds

Abashi
Abashi and Tebryn:
21 Strength +2 Aff. death
3 Movement
1 first strike
Req Omniscience
Can summon Tebryn

War Machine
Warlord:

To be completed soon
 
Well most civs heroes are improved versions of normal units with the hero promotion and extra abilities/ strength so I was thinking of tying their abilities/ strength into promotions.

For example Bambur would be classed as a stronger Axeman

So the Promotion Bambur gives one extra strength and will abandon upon adopting another religion (perhaps not the second part for being upgraded could be a sign that he is locked into service) and Bambur could be upgraded into a Champion, Paladin, Phalanx, ect.
 
umh, I don't like this way of doing it with promotions tbh. I would rather have heroes able to upgrade to more powerful versions of themselves once certain conditions are met ( tech are only one of the possible conditions of course, to make it more exciting ;) )
 
Have to agree that I like the way that Scions handles this better. Where for Alexi at different techs you can upgrade the hero, but they are still unique. (eg at one point you have to decide if you want them to go magic or recon basically, and at a later tech you get to upgrade them once more within that route).

Having some of the other civs that give heroes upgrade at later techs or with other conditions would be cool though, esp for some of the heroes that come early.
 
Gekko's idea is really good, I think that I might add it to the heroes that get upgrades. Especialy the religious heroes because they were the origional purpose when I first thought of this.

PS. Losha might be difficult and also Kithra but the others are really simple to change.
 
Keep in mind that upgraded national heroes will be treated as dead heroes, meaning you could resurrect the lower form of the hero or build the shrine of the champion after upgrading.

I think that you could get around this by making all the forms of a hero be the same unitclass, which would require hat upgrading be a spell (like in AoI) rather than the conventional means of upgrading.


I'm pretty sure that doing ti the promotion way would make the Resurrection and Shrine of the Champion either impossible, or require very complicated python checks.
 
Or you could link the promotion which flags the hero to a python hook which will control the toggling of the "Dead Hero" feat which allows you to cast Ressurection and build the shrine. Could even make multiple feats per civ to allow multiple hero units if you really wanted to bother.
 
a couple suggestions for upgradable heroes:

1) basium automatically upgrades to a more powerful form, regaining lots/all health, when he is badly injured/almost dead. think of this as "unyielding" :D

2) losha valas can upgrade to a better form after killing X number of living units.

3) barnaxus can upgrade to different forms, gaining various abilities, by "consuming" other golems. the abilities gained are dependant on the golem consumed. maybe make it so that he can only consume golems after they have got some Empower promotions, meaning that Barnaxus has to get some figthing done before he can get upgraded.

4) Alazkan can upgrade to a better form after having killed one/some units of a very high level. maybe you could make him start a lil weaker, some people have mentioned him being too powerful.

and on and on and on... :D
 
I was thinking about a Clan/Barb off-shoot Orc (only) civilisation that would be centred around a starting hero.

Anyhow, at certain techs he would get a unique promotion which would sometimes actually represent an increase in the size of his immediate party.

So at Bronze Working for example, there would be a free "Honour Guard" promotion that would grant +2 strength, whilst at Sorcery there would be a 'Shaman of Bhall' promotion where Fire II would be granted. Similarly Priesthood would perhaps add medic 1.

So perhaps the concept of increasing the retinue of a Hero would be an alternative to consider?

(...the flipside of this, specific, Hero getting a number of bonuses would be that when he dies, so does the Civ - which (if they have assets remaining) would revert to Barbarian....but at the same time he would need to be active to draw power to the Civ. I was also thinking that perhaps it could even be set-up so that in a game where he isn't chosen as a Civ, the Barbs could build him at which point the player would be given the opportunity to take charge in the same way as they can take on the Mercurians/Infernal)
 
I thought about holy weapons, but discarded that idea. What about Holy Training? This would be a spell that takes time to cast and requires the hero be a certain level (10?). At the end of the training, the hero gets an appropriate bonus -- Valin: power vs. demons, Bambur: +1 attack, Rosier: fire affinity, Eurabatres (!) something weaker, like healing 10%. Would such spells be relatively easy to code and light on CPU cycles?

I assume that you're doing this because you feel the heroes are too weak in the endgame?
 
Looking at the responses I think that it would be better now to create multipe versions of some of the heroes. (more versions for early heroes and one for the lategame heroes)
 
It would be really cool to have events and adventures or things in game that a hero can accomplish to gain a new form or special promotions. Great ideas!

Keep in mind that equipment is a reward for accomplishing a task that gives the successful unit (or empire) a boost. You can either look at it from the standpoint that the unit that kills Barbatos gets upgraded to a new form that gets death affinity, or that he gins an item that gives him death affinity.

We opted for the equipment version because it seemed more flavorful, its easier to implement, and it applies even to non-hero units. We also like that the equipment can be passed on to other units and can be taken/stolen back and forth between waring empires.

Form a game design prespective (ignoring flavor for a moment) the mechanics proprosed in this thread and the equipment system fill the same niche. The implmentation differences are that hero upgrades would:

1. Heroes would stay powerful throughout the game. Currently each hero is designed to be powerful only during a specific part of the game, saverous is a wrecking machine early on but by the time champions are around hes running out of steam. Heroes are powerful enough, we have no desire to boost them further. This change would also mean that early heroes would be inherently better than late heroes because they would dominate during their era and still be on equal footing with the late game heroes.

2. Your empire would be devastated if a hero died more than it is now. Since the game would be all about the heroes losing them would be hard to recover from. The nice thing about equipment is that even if the unit loses in combat a party can be sent off to recover the lost item (someday ill have to post my love for "active dynamic quests" over scripted ones).

3. Upgradeable heroes would steal a lot of the flavor of the grigori who have drab heroes compared to the others except for the fact that they are able to upgrade them (as cypher noted).

So in general I think its a bad idea, but thats just my 2 cents. I will say that we continue to expand equipment and 0.34 has at least 6 new pieces, 3 of which are won by defeating units. So when we think along these lines thats the way we usually implement.
 
i just got/stole an idea for an item that would be very interesting to have in the game (though only one should exist, and be hard to get)

Bells of Necromancy:
allows the caster to cast seven spells: (undead refers to any who shoudl be dead: liches, skeletons, drowns, etc...)
Ring Danalin: Freezes a targeted unit for up to two turns
Ring Camulos: Strengthens all undead within a tile, though at the cost of some of the caster's strength
Ring Junil: has a chance to bind enemy undead to the caster (control transfered to player)
Ring Cerwiden: has a chance to give the undead within hearing range a spellcasting promotion
Ring Tali: has a chance to remove undead promotion from undead units around the caster. also has chance to give caster the undead promotion.
Ring Arawn: Raises dead (skeletons, wriaths, etc) in the tiles around the caster. each dead has a chance of having enraged promotion: Raises AC by however many units summoned
Ring Agares: Kills every unit within a tile range of the caster. additionally has 75 percent chance of killing the caster and destroying the bells.

how about these? they'de be extremely rare, but very powerful...
 
i got it from Garth Nix's Abhorsen series...

though your right... i'l post it there, too...
 
Version .01 Released
Adds upgrades for almost every hero
New unit for the grigori
New Promos for the Grigori

Feel free to test out and post any comments or bugs
 
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