JFC-3: Ping Pong

[Jet]

JFC-3: Ping Pong

JFC-1 and JFC-2 were easier than I expected. I think this one will be a challenge.

* BTS 3.17 with Rhye's and Fall of Civilization 1.181
* China, 3000 BC start, Emperor
* We start with two free Great Scientists, Ping and Pong. Neither may build an Academy.
* We must win by space, domination, diplomatic, or time
* 10-turn turnsets
* 24 hours for got it or skip, then 48 for save
* Discussion is welcome, but you own your turnset and consensus is not needed




15 turns per turnset in the first round. I played a test game to 700 AD, so to keep from spoiling anything I'll go last and in the first round I'll keep silent until it's my turn. (I didn't quite end up doing this.)

I will strongly caution against complacency, and mention some early problems:
* harsh research penalty
* excess production
* high costs
* abundant barbs

If you have time I'd suggest giving the scenario a quick spin to see what it's like, but please without the great scientists, so that the live game is unspoiled.

Roster (open to anyone with experience with RFC and/or Immortal+)

Jet
Quotey
pigswill
mushyman
(open)

[mushyman]

I've been really enjoying watching the various SGs that have been going on lately, and now my exams are over I'd like to have a go! However, while I have extensive RFC experience I haven't played on Emperor. Still, I'm in if you'll have me

[BurnEmDown]

hey, they're playing go! I'm in for SG but I'm actually a prince-monarch player, hope I won't mess it up too bad for you guys on emperor, altho I am an experienced RFCer, so emperor will be easier than in a normal game.

[Jet]

We could probably soften the difficulty a little if I participated more actively in the first round, but I wouldn't want to dominate the decision making. It wouldn't be fun for me.

What would you guys say to trying Emperor China solo up to 0 AD or so? It's hard to appreciate the challenges without seeing them. If you'd still like to play after seeing what it's like, you're welcome to.

[Quotey]

Will it really be THAT hard? I'd like to join but I'm not sure. Is keeping stable (not solid) through the Maya challenge good enough?

I'm going to try and get conquerors as China, and see how that works out. AP got a domination victory as China, but that was Monarch.

Soes anyone even settle Denver/Chicago before US? We proly don't even need first to conquerors.

I think the main difficulty as ancient civs is the foregin penalty for contacting lots of civs (though this hits Babs/Egypt more?), so we may want to reduce contacts.

What 2/3 UHV would we try for, if we did?

[Jet]

Heh heh. Try it on Emperor and you'll see.

[Quotey]

Spoiler:

Not quite 0AD but... did the Mongols spawn early or something?

I have a feeling I did fairly well (try 2). I went Wheel -> AH -> Pottery, though I think straight to pots is the better start. My research has really kicked off. But the first scientist would make thsi 100x easier/

Oh, and I'm stable! I remember another reason China is unstable- you need a growing economy which is hard early because of the happy caps. I am not sure whether Monarchy or Calendar first is better- Calendar will get you trade routes with the Japanese but Monarchy gets temples and monsasteries.

[Jet]

The barbs are always like that.

[mushyman]

Originally Posted by Jet

What would you guys say to trying Emperor China solo up to 0 AD or so? It's hard to appreciate the challenges without seeing them. If you'd still like to play after seeing what it's like, you're welcome to.

Sounds good - I'll try and give it a go tomorrow evening (it's way past my bedtime here )

[ungy]

I've played a bit of RFC and I'll be impressed if you can pull this off.

Trouble I've had with emp on a long game is basically tech.
2x tech cost and another 2x for the AI to trade with you means forget the tech trade. Stability doesn't help either.

Ping and pong will keep you up initially but it's really tough later on.

I'm going to pass but I look forward to lurking.

If this doesn't work out, I can recommend Ottomans for an interesting emp game (UHV).

[Jet]

Agreed.

Not only Turkey, but really all the later, powerful civs are reasonable on Emperor. Also, Rome and even Greece and Persia can be done with difficulty. But the starting civs are almost impossible for long games. One important factor is inflation, which a few versions ago was increased so that it hits early civs like a mofo.

[pigswill]

I haven't tried RFC but I may give it a whirl, probably low level for the basic stuff then emperor for the humiliation.
Jet: does experience on Immortal mean experience at winning on Immortal?

[grandad1982]

Originally Posted by pigswill

I haven't tried RFC but I may give it a whirl, probably low level for the basic stuff then emperor for the humiliation.
Jet: does experience on Immortal mean experience at winning on Immortal?

classic

[Jet]

Originally Posted by pigswill

does experience on Immortal mean experience at winning on Immortal?

Nah, not really.

[sercer88]

I would join...but:
1) I recently played China on Emperor, but was literally destroyed by the barbs! (I'm that bad!)
2) I don't have BTS yet...but will in a couple days...
3) I don't have regular access to the internet to read discussion/ download saves/ upload saves within the time requirements...

Needless to say, I'll be watching this thing though...

[AnotherPacifist]

What happened to Pang? (if you're imitating Turandot) Maybe you should include him too to make it easier.

[mushyman]

Here's my effort (don't look to avoid spoiling):

Spoiler:

EDIT: I think I went into too much detail before, considering I played nearly as far as Jet. Sorry! Anyway, suffice to say it was quite interesting getting to this point and I'd like to give the game a spin.

[Jet]

BurnEmDown and Pigswill, can you confirm (or not) that you want to play in this game?

[pigswill]

Jet: I'd like to play but I have a nasty suspicion that my computer couldn't handle a huge map.

Its certainly interesting trying to research on emperor. I'm still trying to work out an early strategy (probably beeline writing, 3-4 cities, 2-3 libraries to generate scientists and early GS). Early game with not much of the map explored my machine could probably handle it.

[Jet]

You can test it with these two saves. When I load the first one from scratch and press Enter the IBT takes 12 seconds, and the second one (again from scratch to avoid memory leaks) 50 seconds.