Ideas to put into Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword

I liked Civilization 4 with all its expansion packs. I think you should add some of these ideas:
1. Make a better World Builder or some program to make scenarios, mods, or maps a good scenario. Put this outside of the game if possible. Put a manual of how to use the World Builder or a program to make scenarios, mods, or maps
2. Add more mods and scenarios. Most of the mods were good but you should add more such as:
• Modern World: A Mod that is in Present Day and has all the problems and risks involved.
• The Rise of America: A scenario or Mod that starts in 1776 with the creation of the United States(at this time the U.S. is a confederation) shows as you control the country through history you can decide if it will rise or fall and it continues to Present Day or Beyond.
• Creation of the Middle East: A scenario or Mod which starts in 1900 with the beginning of the 20th century.
• The Cold War: A scenario or Mod that is set form 1945 to 1991 and pitches the U.S against the U.S.S.R. in a complex conflict.
• Dominance in the West: A scenario or Mod (Starts in 1800) where you get to be Russia, Great Britain, The United States, Spain, France, Portugal, Prussians (in 1870 they become the Germans), Netherlands or Italy,. You must fight for who will be at the top and be the greatest country in the West and world with power and a strong economy. This has a world map.
• Dominance in the East: A scenario or Mod (Starts in 1900) which you get to choose China, India, or Japan and you have a choice: Rise to Power or Fall by having much power and strong economy in the East and the world. This has a world map.
3. More civilizations such as:
• Saudi Arabia
• Canada
• Israel
• Switzerland
• Australia
• Kosovo
• Former Soviet Socialist Republics
4. More units needed. Add more than one special unit per civ. Units such as
• M1 Abrams Tank (for U.S. -replaces modern armor)
• T-55 Tank (for Russia- replaces heavy tank)
• Heavy tank
• Medium tank
• Light tank
• Armored Personal Carrier
• Humvee
• Bazooka
• Commando
• Sniper
• Saboteur
• Militia
• Combat Engineer
• Moveable machine gunner(s)(MMG)(machine gunner(s) that can attack not just defend)
• AEGIA Class warship(Like the one in Civilization 3)
• Medic(s) (heal people in battle, in a city or anywhere else on land-can’t attack)
• Colonists(replaces settlers in Industrial Era)
• Biplane (First airplane before a fighter and requires oil)
• Satellites (Enables by Mass Media tech)
• Rebeller(s)are units that rebel against you and your government
• Police maintain order in Cities an many more places.
• Counter Spy Unit (CSU) reveals spies and rebellers.
• Prisoners (enemy units that surrender)
• Patrol boat is a small boat with few guns (can carry up to 4 people)
• Coast Guard unit (CGU) a unit that is a either a destroyer or a patrol boat at random.
5. New Great People
• Great Doctor: Heals people, creates hospitals, creates areas devoted to health.
• Great Rebeller: Starts a rebellion in your country and separate loyal cities (to you) from others.
• Great Negotiator: Negotiates agreements without you having to trade with other countries. Can also dissolve agreements if it is suitable.
• Great Historian: Establishes an academy, starts researching your history or spreads your history. History can be lost and the historian can get it back.
• Great Culture Person: Spreads your culture around to other civilizations, becomes emersed in another culture, or mixes your culture with one or more others.
• Great Tourist: Tries to attract people to your civilization
6. New worker actions:
• Build fortifications(builds fortifications one space away and around the city or area the worker is operating near)
• Workshops can be upgrades to factories outside of city.
• Expand city limits (helps expand the city into adjacent squares-not the ocean)
• Build improvements outside of borders (can build anything that you have available inside borders outside them)
• Build Highways (This is an upgrade from railroads)
• Build Meglevs (This is an upgrade from Highways)
• Add trains to railways (adds trains to your railways anywhere you choose that can move people and units wherever the railways are available)
• Coastal Defenses [Done by a work boat] (Construction of defenses on the coast to deter to stop attacking civilizations vessels and doesn’t have to be near cities)
7. New Wonders. I categorized them into three groups:
National
• Center of Culture
• Anti-Air Defense Network
• Social Security System
• Scientific Development Center
• National War Memorial
• Interstate System
• Grand Central Station
• Supreme Court
Local
• Train Station
• Ironworks
• Cathedral
• Town Hall
World
• Tallest Building
• The Leaning Tower of Pisa
• The Empire State Building
• The Itaipú Dam
• Arch de Trimophe
8. New Diplomatic/ Espionage methods
Diplomatic Espionage
• DMZ (demilitarized zone between two or more countries can be created)
• Create Embassy in other foreign territory
• Cut Diplomatic relations with another country

Spys can:
• Steal information
• Spy on foreign embassy (of your choosing) in your territory
• Assassinate leader of a foreign country


9. New Civics are in 7 categories

Government (can pick two at the same time)
In 4 categories

• Confederate
• Supreme
• Constitutional and Federal
• Unitary

Power(New)
• Growing Empire
• Desperate Empire
• Minor Power
• Major Power
• Superpower
• Authoritarian
• Anarchy

Relations (New-replaces Legal)
• Constitution
• Colonialism
• Nationalism
• Tolerance
• Equality
Political theories (new)
• Socialism (a government in which the means of planning, producing, and distributing goods is controlled by a central government that theoretically seeks a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor; in actuality, most socialist governments have ended up being no more than dictatorships over workers by a ruling elite)
• Communist (a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single - often authoritarian - party holds power; state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society))
• Maoism (the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism developed in China by Mao Zedong (Mao Tse-tung), which states that a continuous revolution is necessary if the leaders of a communist state are to keep in touch with the people)
• Marxism (the political, economic, and social principles espoused by 19th century economist Karl Marx; he viewed the struggle of workers as a progression of historical forces that would proceed from a class struggle of the proletariat (workers) exploited by capitalists (business owners), to a socialist "dictatorship of the proletariat," to, finally, a classless society – Communism)
• Marxism-Leninism (an expanded form of communism developed by Lenin from doctrines of Karl Marx; Lenin saw imperialism as the final stage of capitalism and shifted the focus of workers' struggle from developed to underdeveloped countries)
• Fascism (a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition)

Labor
• Forced Labor
• Extreme Slavery
• Prisoner Labor

Economy
• Growing Economy
(when economy is doing starting to expand- defaults to it)
• Depression
(when economy is starting to do badly- defaults to it)
• Thriving Economy
(when economy is doing great-defaults to it)
• Government Economy
(when government has control over businesses)
Religion
• Atheism
• Polytheism
• Monotheism
• Ecclesiastical
• Theocracy
• Emirate
• Sultanate
• Islamic Republic

10. New Religions
• Baha'i - Founded by Mirza Husayn-Ali (known as Baha'u'llah) in Iran in 1852, Baha'i faith emphasizes monotheism and believes in one eternal transcendent God. Its guiding focus is to encourage the unity of all peoples on the earth so that justice and peace may be achieved on earth. Baha'i revelation contends the prophets of major world religions reflect some truth or element of the divine, believes all were manifestations of God given to specific communities in specific times, and that Baha'u'llah is an additional prophet meant to call all humankind. Bahais are an open community, located worldwide, with the greatest concentration of believers in South Asia.

• Jainism - Originating in India, Jain spiritual philosophy believes in an eternal human soul, the eternal universe, and a principle of "the own nature of things." It emphasizes compassion for all living things, seeks liberation of the human soul from reincarnation through enlightenment, and values personal responsibility due to the belief in the immediate consequences of one's behavior. Jain philosophy teaches non-violence and prescribes vegetarianism for monks and laity alike; its adherents are a highly influential religious minority in Indian society.

• Shintoism - A native animist tradition of Japan, Shinto practice is based upon the premise that every being and object has its own spirit or kami. Shinto practitioners worship several particular kamis, including the kamis of nature, and families often have shrines to their ancestors' kamis. Shintoism has no fixed tradition of prayers or prescribed dogma, but is characterized by individual ritual. Respect for the kamis in nature is a key Shinto value. Prior to the end of World War II, Shinto was the state religion of Japan, and bolstered the cult of the Japanese emperor.

• Sikhism - Founded by the Guru Nanak (born 1469), Sikhism believes in a non-anthropomorphic, supreme, eternal, creator God; centering one's devotion to God is seen as a means of escaping the cycle of rebirth. Sikhs follow the teachings of Nanak and nine subsequent gurus. Their scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib - also known as the Adi Granth - is considered the living Guru, or final authority of Sikh faith and theology. Sikhism emphasizes equality of humankind and disavows caste, class, or gender discrimination.

• Zoroastrianism - Originating from the teachings of Zoroaster in about the 9th or 10th century B.C., Zoroastrianism may be the oldest continuing creedal religion. Its key beliefs center on a transcendent creator God, Ahura Mazda, and the concept of free will. The key ethical tenets of Zoroastrianism expressed in its scripture, the Avesta, are based on a dualistic worldview where one may prevent chaos if one chooses to serve God and exercises good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. Zoroastrianism is generally a closed religion and members are almost always born to Zoroastrian parents. Prior to the spread of Islam, Zoroastrianism dominated greater Iran. Today, though a minority, Zoroastrians remain primarily in Iran, India, and Pakistan.
11. Resources
• tobacco
• diamonds,
• Olives
• Salt
• Coffee
• Cotton
• Tea
• Hemp
• coltan (used in computer chips and electronics),
• natural gas,
• timber
• bauxite,
• bullion
• lead
• magnesite,
• nickel,
• phosphate
• oil shale
• tin
12. Other
• Natural disasters
I. Volcanic Eruption(add volcanoes)
II. Forest fire
III. Drought
IV. Asteroid strikes
V. Lightning strike
VI. Avalanches
VII. Limnic eruption
VIII. Blizzard
IX. Hailstorm
X. Heat wave
XI. Epidemic
XII. Famine
XIII. Solar flare
XIV. Oil spill
XV. Deforestation
• Corporations
1. European Union-only in Europe
2. Sid’s Oil and Coal Corp. (only for oil and coal)
3. Sid’s Fish Corp
4. Defense Contractor Corp.
5. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Corp.
• Top 12 Gangs in the World:
1. Bloods
2. Crips
3. Latin Kings
4. NLR
5. Mexican Mafia
6. Texas Syndicate
7. Aryan Brotherhood
8. La Nuestra Familia
9. 5 percenters
10. 1 percenters
11. Dirty White Boys
12. Skinheads
• Political Organizations
I. Democrats
II. Republicans
III. Rebels
IV. Loyalists (to you)
• Political Process
I. You can be elected to power
II. Elections can change the leader
III. Coup can overthrow you and you go into exile (you automatically lose if the people that are still loyal to you stay loyal)
IV. Your coup is when you take control of an empire
V. Popularity rating (how much people like you-if resent grows high you can be overthrown or have to resign
VI. You can be impeached in a democracy by the Legislative Branch
13. Other
• Can infiltrate another country and also take it over
• Pollution(some of your population dies)
• In a democracy your powers are checked
• Increase Population size to a total of 1 billion instead of 12 million
• Last but not least: Revolution-parts of your empire can become independent
• Civilizations are not called empires they are called civilizations
• Units can surrender if they choose to in enemy territory
• Marriages-if a leader likes you they can marry you and bring your civilizations together (this also works vice versa)
• In a city screen factory workers will be added along with farmers
• Businesses can form-you don’t have to make decisions
• UN can send in troops to broker a cease-fire and maintain peace
• You can bail out corporations or businesses in trouble
• If you destroy too much of the environment you must pay for it in money heavily
• If you focus too much on one area of you civilization such as the military other civilizations can beat you in your final score-you must focus on all areas not only one
Note: Keep all existing parts of game unless noted.

Does anyone have any other ideas??

Yes. Kosovo is not a nation.

I consider Kosovo a nation. The U.S. and many others endorsed Kosovo as a nation. KOSOVO IS A NATION. Look it up in the CIA World Factbook. It says it is a nation.

It is a Country, recognized by some, not UN. And Albanians are nation. Not Kosovo. Don't mix those two.

Seriously, some of those countries you listed....what a waste of time it would be making them into civs...Phillipines, Georgia, Kosovo (I though having Ethiopia as a selection was bad). Also, if all much of what you have discussed was implemented, it would make it much too complicated, 15 religions? Some of the wonders you'd like to see are actually wonders such as the Great Wall and The Statue of Liberty. Cathedrals are actually available in the game too as is an ironworks and colliseums.
Your "Great Culturer" (that isn't a word) is a Great Artist in the game. The negotiator is also done in the game although not as a person, it would however be good to have a "Great Diplomat" who could establish an embassy as their special building although that is a bit like Great Spy.
Some new types of great people would be cool but "great tourist" is a bit stupid. Also the workers do build factories outside of the city, they are called workshops, it would be cool to see their graphic change though.
Also, don't see how highways are better than railways, an upgrade to Maglev would be better. Some of your ideas are good but I wouldn't want the game to include everything as that would make it much too complicated.

I see that you have put in a lot of work. How long did it take you to type all those suggestions?

Interesting list of features/additions.

However, the game is already VERY complicated. I personally would like it to be more streamlined (like vanilla) with fewer units and such.

"the designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to tak away"

This couldnt be more true for civ.

just as an example, i think we could do away with the following units:

1. Paratrooper
2. Anti-Tank
3. Stealth destroyer
4. Attack Submarine
5. Airship
6. Ship of the Line
7. Trireme
8. Missile Cruiser

Civ 5 is probably a long way off yet, but i hope the idea behind it is to keep it as simple and as fun as possible because by nature it is already a very complicated game.

Also, you can make a mod to add in all that stuff you did. go check the mod forums if your not happy with the game as people have done all sorts of things there.

i stopped where you discriped Socialism as something usually ending up in dictatorship ... ever heard about Scandinavia? we're the least corrupt countries in the world, and got some of the highest living standards in the world ... and (surprise) we're Socialists and Democratic (well ... most of us likes it this way but it sometimes seems like the Liberalistic/Conservative goverment doesn't like the democratic part as much, forcing us into war with the smallest amount of majority in the cabinent and repeatedly denying votes)

but ... one major question which keeps repeating for me:

why?

oh yeah ... you certainly know some history noone else knows

Creation of the Middle East: A scenario or Mod which starts in 1918 with the end of WW2 and the occupation of Iraq by b the British

Click to expand...

if WW2 ended in 1918 ... was it then WW3 in 1939-1945? ... and when was WW1?

Too many stuffs....modern military units could be interesting just in a mod or a scenario, like "WWW3" or "Modern warfare" or something...but they are just a waste of space in a normal game lasting from 4000 bc onwards....
Then why not add more military of the ancient times? Poisoned arrows?
And if Kosovo is a nation and his independence is "legal", then the same should have been for South Carolina, Alabama and the others in 1861...

Do you realise how many trees you'd have to chop down, just to print the flaming manual?

Even though many of these ideas are very interesting and explore some of the deeper details of history, they represent the kind of profligate complexity that bogged down Civ3. Civ 4 deliberately reduced the complexity to a relatively simple, by Civ standards, and interestingly abstracted game. Through the expansion packs they have slowly added complexity, trying to ensure the complexity was worth it in gameplay.

It was found that very few Civ players wanted actually enjoy the level of complexity you describe, even though each one of us has thought up that one more thing that could be added. So, although your impressive list would fascinate and capture the attention of some of the player population, it would not be played by the vast majority.

Also, there is the consideration of just how much effort it would take to make this happen. Yikes. I suggest you investigate some of the mods out there, ones that do add a great deal of complexity of one sort or another. You might find something there to soothe your aching need for detailed gameplay. Good luck to you and have fun!

I will definatley say it shows you put effort into this. And I don't think it is a matter of complexity as to why everything should not be added. Having said that:

Its way too much and not enough reasons why the game needs it. You list a medic unit and that is what the medic promotion is for. Great Historian could only be added by adding a history mechanic to the game which I see no valid need for. Academics is already represented by the Great scientist. Great Culturer? This is the Great Artist. Great Tourist... I don't think one of these has even existed in reality. I would much prefer tourist attraction coming back to wonders.
Growing, Thriving, Depression Economies are already in the game. Its called having a strong or weak economy in comparison to other civ's economies. Not enough information is explained here if you mean something else. Government economy is pretty much covered by Economic civics.

There really is alot of stuff in your list already in the game or that hold little relevance. For instance saying to add conservative/liberal views to the game is easy to just throw on a list but how would that matter/work though? It is wasting time to add something to the game that doesn't commit anything new to the game.

SenhorDegeurra probably said it best using the quote:
"The designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"

Its just that I could probably take a huge chunk (majority) out of your list and show representation of them that is already in the game. Others that I wont go into have no real need for a place in the game. Some others are interesting ideas that would need expanding on to agree the game would benefit from adding them.

I'm afraid you've wasted your time researching all this. Ever heard the quote for the Engineering tech in Civ 4?

SheaD said:

Seriously, some of those countries you listed....what a waste of time it would be making them into civs...Phillipines, Georgia, Kosovo (I though having Ethiopia as a selection was bad). .

Click to expand...

You know that Ethiopia was once one of the most powerful nations in Africa right? They were pretty influential until about the 1500s. They are very deserving, read the Civilopedia!

I think that that would be a good civilization to put into this addition.
I also need someone to help me with making Mods. I have no clue. I tried before but all the programs haven't worked.

ahmedhadzi said:

It is a Country, recognized by some, not UN. And Albanians are nation. Not Kosovo. Don't mix those two.

Click to expand...

Wait. I said nothing about Albania. I also didn't mix them.

Yes but you should know something about that, something what is not from "CIA Factbook". Not to mention that a lot of things you posted are very politically incorrect to say at least. Oh here is great IDEA, let's make game based on CIA Factbook!

King Flevance said:

I will definatley say it shows you put effort into this. And I don't think it is a matter of complexity as to why everything should not be added. Having said that:

Its way too much and not enough reasons why the game needs it. You list a medic unit and that is what the medic promotion is for. Great Historian could only be added by adding a history mechanic to the game which I see no valid need for. Academics is already represented by the Great scientist. Great Culturer? This is the Great Artist. Great Tourist... I don't think one of these has even existed in reality. I would much prefer tourist attraction coming back to wonders.
Growing, Thriving, Depression Economies are already in the game. Its called having a strong or weak economy in comparison to other civ's economies. Not enough information is explained here if you mean something else. Government economy is pretty much covered by Economic civics.

There really is alot of stuff in your list already in the game or that hold little relevance. For instance saying to add conservative/liberal views to the game is easy to just throw on a list but how would that matter/work though? It is wasting time to add something to the game that doesn't commit anything new to the game.

SenhorDegeurra probably said it best using the quote:
"The designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"

Its just that I could probably take a huge chunk (majority) out of your list and show representation of them that is already in the game. Others that I wont go into have no real need for a place in the game. Some others are interesting ideas that would need expanding on to agree the game would benefit from adding them.

Click to expand...

I have decided that there is no more Great Artist. He is called the Great Culturer NOW. I will get rid of conservative and Liberal idea. Ok, growing, Thriving, Depression Economies already in the game. But they need to have side effects or a message. So your economy has a ranking:
1. Growing Economy
2. Thriving Economy
3. Depression Economy

1 is the best 3 is the worst.

I will expand on the my other ideas. Ok. By Sunday It will all be layed out for you.

eris said:

Even though many of these ideas are very interesting and explore some of the deeper details of history, they represent the kind of profligate complexity that bogged down Civ3. Civ 4 deliberately reduced the complexity to a relatively simple, by Civ standards, and interestingly abstracted game. Through the expansion packs they have slowly added complexity, trying to ensure the complexity was worth it in gameplay.

It was found that very few Civ players wanted actually enjoy the level of complexity you describe, even though each one of us has thought up that one more thing that could be added. So, although your impressive list would fascinate and capture the attention of some of the player population, it would not be played by the vast majority.

Also, there is the consideration of just how much effort it would take to make this happen. Yikes. I suggest you investigate some of the mods out
there, ones that do add a great deal of complexity of one sort or another. You might find something there to soothe your aching need for detailed gameplay. Good luck to you and have fun!

Click to expand...

I will get rid of the Extra Governments. Thank you for your considerations.

Sian said:

i stopped where you discriped Socialism as something usually ending up in dictatorship ... ever heard about Scandinavia? we're the least corrupt countries in the world, and got some of the highest living standards in the world ... and (surprise) we're Socialists and Democratic (well ... most of us likes it this way but it sometimes seems like the Liberalistic/Conservative goverment doesn't like the democratic part as much, forcing us into war with the smallest amount of majority in the cabinent and repeatedly denying votes)

but ... one major question which keeps repeating for me:

why?

oh yeah ... you certainly know some history noone else knows



if WW2 ended in 1918 ... was it then WW3 in 1939-1945? ... and when was WW1?

Click to expand...

Ok. The Date of the time it begins will go back to 1900 for your sake.
Also WW3 never happened. It was WW2. It began in 1937 in Asia and 1939 in Europe. Get your history straight. To repeat:I will get rid of the Liberal and Conservative aspects. Also You will be able to pick more than 1 or each category in civics