RBW5 - Deity Micromanagers

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regoarrarr

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Love switching city tile assignments every turn? Ever created a spreadsheet to determine the optimal research rate? Then this may be the game for you!!!!

From those wacky folks over at Realms Beyond, we bring you the latest in succession game variants.

Deity Micromanagers:

Game: Warlords 2.13 (I don't have BtS)
Level: Deity
Civ / Leader: TBD
Map Speed: Epic
Map size: Standard
Map script: TBD
Barbs: On but not raging
Vassals: On


And now the important one:
Game Speed: 1 turn per day

Yes, we will be playing 1 turn every day. (2 turns a day for the first 10-15 turns or so). Yes, the beginning of the game will be kind of boring, but it will heat up before too long. Yes, Epic speed will just make it longer but we're counting on playing for a year or two (yikes!)

Deity is outside all of our comfort levels, but we're hoping that the combination of SG-style play along with the slowness of pace (allowing time for micromanaging and all kinds of nerdy calculations about how to proceed) will allow us to have a shot. And doesn't Deity just sound so much cooler than Immortal?

We will have an open roster. Everyone is invited and encouraged to check into the thread, make suggestions, even open the save and check things out. There will be one turnplayer (myself at first) who will actually play the one turn per calendar day. We will pass the turnplaying on every 10-20 turns or so, but participating in this SG does not mean that you have to play any turns or even have Warlords.

So who's in? And we're still trying to figure out a good map / leader to at least give us a shot at winning

The current save will always be posted at http://www.regoarrarr.com/civ/rbw5/rbw5c.CivWarlordsSave
 
Firstly: first post :banana: ... [ok, stupid lawyers ... first reply!]

regoarrarr said:
... we're still trying to figure out a good map / leader to at least give us a shot at winning
Click to expand...
winning(!!). I just want to survive to get, oh ... lets say ... 5 cities. I like Cyrus because of his war like traits (and I don't see us winning if we don't war) and his early UU. We can go steal some workers and put a small dent in the AIs growth curve. And Great Plains because I think the very best tile in the whole game is a plain with cow (3F, 3H).

But really - can we have some people who have played at this level share their Deity approaches with us ... hmmn?
 
Thanks for inviting me over ruff_hi, should be interesting and educational for y'all. It's hard to suggest any leader or strategy without knowing the victory condition. There are plenty of ways to beat Diety without warring, but you might have more fun with a war when playing 1 turn per day. Cultural, for example, might be a bit boring.

Real general stuff: City maintenance is expensive. Even just the minimum 6 cities (to get things like Oxford U) are hard to pay for. Early expansion kills you. Focus on the capitol at first, but you do have to stake out some land/good resources.

Let the AI do the research. Get alphabet and do good tech brokering.

I'll hang around and see how you do, good luck.
 
You need to know how you're going to try and win this and what style of play you'll be using before picking a leader. Elizabeth would be a good choice if you want to do some lateish warring, financial will get you teching at a good pace, philosophical can get you ahead with smart bulbing and redcoats are super. Persia or Huayna are best if you want to do the warring early.

I'd strongly second what WastinTime said regarding Alphabet, being first there is huge. Also, you can easily get Great Library and Liberalism on Deity so aim for it, regardless of what you're doing.

You have to tech and trade smart to stay abreast of the AI here. Go for techs they avoid for trade value. Bulbing Philosophy is a good move.

Anyway, hope it all goes well and I'm interested to see how it goes.
 
I'll be lurking :)
 
May I join?

Go random leader! No map regeneration/restarts
No better way to do it
 
@KinesongPayaso - Everyone is welcome to participate - hope to see you stick around.

Okay, so sorry for the delay in getting this started, but this IS supposed to be a slow game :lol:

After talking to ruff a bit, and hearing some of the comments from the peanut gallery, we decided to swap over to Elizabeth and normal speed. Ruff sent me a new map script but I couldn't figure it out so I just picked continents. The only checkbox I ticked was Lock Modified Assets.

I rolled a few starts and have posted them below. I picked 5 different ones. Nothing too exciting like gold/gems.

Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

Option A: Seafood Pigs

Civ4ScreenShot0015.JPG

Option B: Deer Sheep Oasis

Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Option C: Food Forest Hills

Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG

Option D: Grassland

Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

Option E: Flood Plains Pigs

So...... votes? Or none of the above and I should regen for another week or so :-D
 
I like A and C but the plains hill settles it for me ... A
 
You may want to go Epic speed. Normal will make it very hard to do any war.

I like the suggestion for random leader, but random map is tough for Deity. In general, I'd agree no regen is a good idea, but not on Deity. I recommend you have at least 1 commerce resource or you'll have a rough start. You won't get to alphabet quick enough to get the tech trade rolling.

Oh, and turn on resource flags when you post those screenshots.
 
A and C seem good

::A::
:thumbsup: A would make use of our starting tech, Fishing
But we would have to construct 2 Work Boats (2 x 30 = 60 :hammers: ) which is equivalent to 1 Worker (1 x 60 :hammers: )
:nono: but we lose future usage of that 60 :hammers: if it was turned into fishing boats

:confused: We have a clam duplicate, so I dunno what to make of that. Additional 30 :hammers: as opposed to a worker's turn-action cost for a farm or cottage

:nono: There's also 3 non-coastal water tiles in A

:nono: No immediate :) resource, overabundance of :health:

:nono: No river

:nono: No immediate copper to make The Collosus, to juice up the coastal tiles

:thumbsup: Goody Hut. Just let the border activate it, so no barbarians pop up(Im not 100% sure about this, but I think if your borders activate it, barbarians won't appear, like for scouts)

:thumbsup: Coastal means we're already in a corner. Nobody to box us in. And expansion would be easier for our warrior

::C::
I'd go for C
2 big farms, a small river and fur

I prefer this over A, :thumbsup: as the worker can move around and construct improvements(except the fur) AROUND the capital as soon as it spawns

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Marble for wonder construction, to leverage Philosophical. Also, Marble quarries provide 2 Coins + Financial river so that's 4 coins, yeah?

:thumbsup: The dense forest seems like a big bonus too if we intend to make use of the marble for wonders.

:nono: However, it might be too dense for our settlers and workers to connect the capital to our next few cities

:nono: we aren't in a corner, so we could be boxed in





I'd pick ::C:: But we have no initial technology to make use of the resources for us: Agri, Hunting
Pigs and Marble wont count
 
E, A, or C in this order for me. :)

B and D have plenty of commerce but far too little production.


A seems very strong but I don't like :
1. the lack of commerce except for the sea tiles. On the other hand we have 3 of those.
2. no river (but is that important in Warlords without levee - it is just the no fresh water bonus?). So the possible cottages will be useless for a long time and will be a waste of the financial trait.

C has the same kind of problems but worst
1. no seafood, therefore the food won't bring any commerce.
2. not coastal, so less trade and the possiblity to be trapped between AIs without exit.
3. on the otherhand, we have a river, so the cottaged grass will be 2-0-3 from the beginning.

I think E is quite nice, with good commerce potential (river grass, FP, at least 1 seafood). Production seems a bit weak, but there are at least 1 extra forrest plain hills in the fog (N of pig?) and possibly another hill South.
 
Lots of opinions!!

@WastinTime - I think we have given up on early war, and so I think Normal is the way to go, since because of our game speed, playing Epic means another 3 months or so of gameplay!

@all - Our basic strategy is going to follow Snaaty's strategy. If you haven't read those threads, check them out
BTS - A guide for higher difficulties
Snaaty's early game strategy in more detail

@Kinesong - thanks for running some numbers! That really captures the spirit of this game is all about

Okay so now my thoughts:

I like C, for the following reasons:

1. It's not on the coast. Someone was pointing out that a positive of the coastal starts is that we're not blocked in, but I feel the complete opposite. On Deity, the landgrab is king and we need to build blocking cities to cordon off "our" territory. In the middle we can do that, and since this is not panagea, I'm hoping that we have some safe coast nearby.

2. Fur = early happy! Plus a potential commerce resource (1/2/5 if I'm figuring that out right)

3. Marble is another good commerce (1/4/3 I think). Plus that will speed the Great Library and National Epic which are key things for our strategy.

4. There is a hidden lake NW of the corn (so it's freshwater). It's too bad we are not also coastal so we can't build a lighthouse for a 3/0/3 tile, but still 2/0/3 is not shabby (essentially a coast tile)

My next vote was for A:

But again, we need to run some numbers. I'm going to simulate the next 30-40 turns or so, assuming we build worker first and tech some worker techs first, and see which city gets us in the best place once it grows to the happy cap and is all improved. I'll start with C, then run to A and E and post them here. If anyone else is lurking around, feel free to start on one of the others.

From a gameplay perspective, we're going to try and stick with the daily turn, so today is the day to pick a city site. From a logistical explanation, day means calendar day, and it means calendar day in the timezone of the current turnplayer. That's me for now, so it is currently October 14th 8:38 AM (EDT, GMT -0500 I think)
 
OPTION C BREAKDOWN:

So if we assume that we are starting out with a worker, generally it doesn't really matter which tile we use. There are typically several tiles that are 3 (food+hammers). We are lucky here in that we have a few tiles that also have a commerce. So I will assume that we will start off working the plains wheat.

So, a worker is 60 shields. We have 4 extra food-hammers, so it should take 15 turns.

We are making 10 bpt (the base beaker that you automatically get, plus 8 from the palace and 1 from the wheat).

Nerdy details below, but (assuming my math and such checks out which is not necessarily true), at the end of turn 43 we have:

Techs: Ag, Hunting, Archery, Masonry, BW and 44 beakers into the next tech (AH or Wheel probably)
Improvements: Camped the fur, Farmed the wheat and corn, Quarried the marble and are 1 turn from a chop on one of the forested hills
Units: a worker, warrior, 4 archers and 13 food-hammers into another worker (which will be aided by the chop in 1 turn)
Capital: Size 6 (1 unhappy) - I am thinking 2-pop whip it after the chop comes in, though I haven't accounted for revolting to Slavery.

Also assuming that because the fur is on the river I don't need to road it.

Thoughts on this? Mistakes? I will try to do A and maybe E later on today, unless someone else wants to....


Code: 
turn	f	h	c	f	h	c	Build	Research	Other	Tiles worked
1	2	2	10	0	0	0	Worker (60)	Agriculture (60)		Center, Wheat
2	2	2	10	2	2	10				Center, Wheat
3	2	2	10	4	4	20				Center, Wheat
4	2	2	10	6	6	30				Center, Wheat
5	2	2	10	8	8	40				Center, Wheat
6	2	2	10	10	10	50				Center, Wheat
7	2	2	10	12	12	0		Hunting (40)		Center, Wheat
8	2	2	10	14	14	10				Center, Wheat
9	2	2	10	16	16	20				Center, Wheat
10	2	2	10	18	18	30				Center, Wheat
11	2	2	10	20	20	0		Archery (60)		Center, Wheat
12	2	2	10	22	22	10				Center, Wheat
13	2	2	10	24	24	20				Center, Wheat
14	2	2	10	26	26	30				Center, Wheat
15	2	2	10	28	28	40				Center, Wheat
16	2	2	10	0	0	50	Warrior (15)		Worker farms corn (5)	Center, Wheat
17	2	2	10	2	2	0				Center, Wheat
18	2	2	10	4	4	10				Center, Wheat
19	2	2	10	6	6	20				Center, Wheat
20	2	2	10	8	8	30				Center, Wheat
21	6	1	9	10	10	40			Worker farms wheat (5)	Center, Corn
22	6	1	9	16	11	49				Center, Corn
23	6	1	9	0	12	58				Center, Corn
24	6	2	10	6	13	67			Size 2	Center, Corn, Wheat
25	6	2	10	12	15	77				Center, Corn, Wheat
26	9	2	10	18	0	7	Archer (30)	Masonry (80)	Worker moves to fur	Center, Corn, Wheat
27	9	2	13	3	2	17			Size 3, Worker moves to fur	Center, Corn, Wheat, Lake?
28	9	2	13	12	4	30			Worker camps fur (4)	Center, Corn, Wheat, Lake?
29	9	2	13	21	6	43				Center, Corn, Wheat, Lake?
30	6	7	11	2	8	56			Size 4	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill
31	6	7	11	8	15	67				Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill
32	6	7	14	14	22	78			Worker moves to marble; waits	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill
33	6	7	14	20	29	12		BW (120)	Worker quarries marble (6)	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill
34	6	7	14	26	6	26	Archer (30)			Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill
35	4	10	14	2	13	40			Size 5	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Hill
36	4	10	14	6	23	54				Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Hill
37	4	10	14	10	3	68	Archer (30)			Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Hill
38	4	10	14	14	13	82				Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Hill
39	5	11	17	18	23	96			Quarry done; move to hill to chop	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Quarry
40	5	11	17	23	4	113	Archer (30)		Worker chops hill	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Quarry
41	5	11	17	28	15	10		AH? (100)		Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Quarry
42	5	11	17	1	26	27			Size 6 (1 unhappy)	Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Quarry
43	5	11	17	6	7	44	Worker (60)			Center, Corn, Wheat, Fur, Hill, Quarry
 
I had always though that you have an 'extra' breaker on top of the commerce (ie even with 0% science you have 1), so you would have 11 breaker instead of 10 (or is it BTS only ?)??
 
I think the tech path should be Ag, Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet and then trade. That might not be the fastest method to Alphabet - maybe take a look in game and see what else is an option. We might want to pick up hunting so that we can camp the furs.

Edit: and you have ignored the 'known civs with that tech' discount - which is probably ok initially.
 
@Jabah - You are correct. I was actually accounting for that beaker, but what I was NOT accounting for was the 1 commerce from the city center. So you are correct it should be 11.

@ruff - I've tried playing games where I do a super-fast beeline to Alpha and it just never seems to work out. You need some of the basic worker techs (like Masonry and especially BW for chops/whips). But my next techs would be AH, Pottery, Wheel, Writing, Alpha in some order. But I would love for you to crunch some numbers and prove me wrong!

@ruff again - and in that tech path, would we be defending our civ with warriors? Not going to work with barb archers awful early

@ruff again again - and you are right I ignored the known civs with that tech since I was not sure who we would meet, what they would have and when they would have it

@all - another thing I realized I missed was the known pre-reqs discount. For instance when we are researching Archery, Masonry and BW - we have 1 pre-req so it's a 20% beaker boost (probably 1 bpt).

The other thing I can't figure out is in the game which shall not be named, we started off working on AH, which has one prereq which we had. We should be getting 11 bpt counting the bonus (grass river cows + city + 8 palace + bonus), which should be 12 due to the 20%. But AH (a 100 beaker tech) is listed as taking 11 turns. Any ideas?

EDIT: The other commerce mistake I made is that our furs and quarries (once improved) will give 1 more commerce each due to us being financial
 
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