Gr24 - AWD vs 30 civs on 250x250 Archipelago

Greebley · Oct 11, 2008

Ok now we are going to try Always War at deity. It will be Achipelago so we don't get overwhelmed at the start.

Special rules:
We must win by conquest.
We must not get a tech from the Great Library (i.e we can own it for a turn only if we have Education).

Settings:
Map: 250x250
AI: All 30 opponents
Civ: Ottomans
Archipelago
70% water
No Barbs
Deity

Standard AW: Must declare war as soon as we have contact with no trades, but we can look at our opponents, their techs, etc.

Roster:
Greebley
Northern Pike
markh
M60A3TTS
I.Larkin
ThERat

Obviously the tough part of this game is likely to be that we will fall behind in tech. All victory conditions are on. If we lose badly by UN then that will be off next time.

Next post will be our start for discussion.

Greebley · Oct 11, 2008

Here was our start. I saw no resources so settled in place after moving the worker.

Greebley · Oct 11, 2008

I thought it best to discuss before we play.

What tech do we research? Do we want to go minimum? It may take nearly 50 turns anyway for Alphabet and definitely for Ironworking.

I was planning on exploring. There is a chance with so many civs that we are not alone however.

The cow was a nice bonus to an otherwise bland looking position. I may build an early settler in the hopes we don't need high shields for defenders.

Quotey · Oct 11, 2008

lurker's: Good god.. Deity? No initial trades? No GL? Good luck...

Sashie VII · Oct 11, 2008

lurker's comment:

I wonder if you can do this on Deity with these settings. But then you did it on DG with time to spare. :goodjob:

Best of luck though (and skill).

ThERat · Oct 11, 2008

checking in, maybe we can churn out a settler after 3 warriors. I would go for the military techs first as we do not need literature immediately. We need IW and maths for sure.
Would go for min research for the first tech to store money for the next techs

Aabraxan · Oct 11, 2008

lurker's comment: Best of luck!

Northern Pike · Oct 11, 2008

Checking in. :rockon:

I'd research Pottery first. We know that we need granaries and we know that it won't take fifty turns. If we choose IW, say, we could spend fifty turns on something we don't immediately need (if we're alone on our island).

If an enemy does show up quickly, we can already build spearmen and walls so we should be able to survive.

Greebley · Oct 12, 2008

Ya, pottery seems a good choice for first. I would be inclined to go for that too. If we are not alone then Iron Working will suddenly become more important so going for a faster tech first may allow us to start it sooner.

Depending on island size, map making may be pretty important. It would be the primary reason to go for alphabet early in my mind (curragh are also useful in certain cases).

I decided I will switch around the order before we start, so it will be different than the current first post list. That way it isn't always the same style, before/after you each game. Once everyone is confirmed I will switch the order around.

Northern Pike · Oct 12, 2008

Greebley said:
I may build an early settler in the hopes we don't need high shields for defenders.

In the long term, we should get our settlers from a +4 food town using both cows, rather than from the capital which can't get beyond +3 food in despotism. So an early settler to found the two-cow town sounds like a good idea.

Rodent · Oct 13, 2008

You guys are Crazy

How do you plan to keep up in Techs, Considering you can't use TGL or extort Techs? Is the Tech pace really that slow at these settings?

EDIT: Oops, Archi and a Monstrous Map, Will take forever for the AI to make Contact (Read: Astronomy) So maybe it wont be that bad.

You had better pray that you dont end up having very close islands.

I. Larkin · Oct 13, 2008

Check in. Sure, Pottery first. But what will be next IW or Wheel?

Greebley · Oct 13, 2008

We should have a better idea of the shape of the island by then. If there are sufficient hills, I would likely consider IW to be better.
If the island is small, then Alphabet for Curragh is likely best.

I. Larkin · Oct 13, 2008

Greebley said:
We should have a better idea of the shape of the island by then. If there are sufficient hills, I would likely consider IW to be better.
If the island is small, then Alphabet for Curragh is likely best.

Do not understand this... what we need Curragh for? To have more wars earlier?

Greebley · Oct 13, 2008

I would use them to start finding land for us to expand to and also tell us how important Map Making is to research. If there is a lot of land nearby and we are on a small island, earlier mapmaking would allow us to continue expanding. Or we could be in the middle of nowhere.

Contacts should also make research cheaper, though I don't know by how much since the AI is poor at landings and won't even try in the very early game, we could meet them to get cheaper techs sooner and not have suffer from more landings.

If we have a decent piece of land though, I would hold off on alphabet.

M60A3TTS · Oct 13, 2008

Checking in- Have to confess I'm not a fan of Ottomans or archi maps. 100 shield cav isn't worth the 2 extra attack points IMHO. Especially pre-factory era.

And no GLib- ugh. So what is the plan as far as techs go? It almost makes me think once the homeland is secure, we need to make more contacts to get the tech cost down and get the AI civs out of Republic. I have visions of our frigates and galleons being blown away by destroyers and bombers.

As much as losing by UN, I wouldn't rule out a space launch either.

AndrewN · Oct 14, 2008

lurker's comment: Checking in

Damn, all the good seats have gone; budge up a bit guys there is enough room for one more :groucho:

Good luck, I think you are going to need it :lol:

markh · Oct 14, 2008

Checking in. I think I have played just two archipelago maps ever. I'm curious how this works out especially with this size of a map. If there will be no safe trooptransporting pre-magnetism this could get a little boring for an AW game in the beginning.

Getting contacts via suicide curraghs/galleys is one thing. No safe transport of troops in AW is another story.

I. Larkin · Oct 14, 2008

Greebley said:
I would use them to start finding land for us to expand to and also tell us how important Map Making is to research. If there is a lot of land nearby and we are on a small island, earlier mapmaking would allow us to continue expanding. Or we could be in the middle of nowhere.

Contacts should also make research cheaper, though I don't know by how much since the AI is poor at landings and won't even try in the very early game, we could meet them to get cheaper techs sooner and not have suffer from more landings.

If we have a decent piece of land though, I would hold off on alphabet.

I see your reasons. I think, that Literature is a next priority after MMaking. Since Libs are cheap and we will reasezrch all ourselfs it will help if we are alone at big island.

Greebley · Oct 14, 2008

I agree this is a bit of an experiment. I have not played a archipelago AW in a very long time and never with this many civs or this difficulty level.

However, we have caught up in tech every single game that we survived the start - science farms are immensely powerful. Also winning when behind in tech leads to an exciting game.

My hope is we don't have a "do nothing until astonomy" start. For smaller Archipelago starts, you don't get this problem - we will have to see here.

So we will see whether the game is fun or dull - it may even be both (a bit dull at the start with an interesting end perhaps).

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