A couple quick comments/suggestions on the Horsemen

Playing a Khazad game and the horsemen are having a bit more fun then they usually do. Making for some interesting times. Gave me a chance to notice a couple things about them that I thought I would comment on.
My goal is to make the horsemen scarier/more effective at achieving what their flavor text suggests of them.

Yersina seems to have gotten cannibalize. Given that I rarely see the horsemen, I don't know if he/she/it came with this by default. I do like how it makes the standard tactic of sending in many many fodder troops nigh useless (so long as they are alive of course). I think all the horsemen would greatly benefit from some sort of cannibalize promotion, if only so that taking them down takes special action.

Yersina seems to be running around somewhat randomly, making it rather difficult for me to mobilize a large army against it. I'm sure he/she/it is just seeking out targets of opportunity, but I would be interested in learning what it's actual priorities are. Is it just going for the nearest unit with the best chance of success? A particular player's unit?
If possible, the preferable thing (I think) for it to have in the code would be for it to switch targets after every victory/city kill. This would spread the love around and keep it fairly mobile, making harder for players to amass a proper counter force. Would also be great if it could look at potential odds around it of being killed. Anything about 30% should send off warning flags, making it head off into the hills where it can heal up for the next strike. Perhaps it would be simpler if they were programmed to leave the area once a certain number of troops got too close. I dunno.

That King guy with his command promotion is fun and all, but the units he captures just aren't up to snuff. They need to begin fully healed of their inuries and possibly come with some percentage buff (a beefed up version of stigmata?). Otherwise they are just free xp for even your weakest troops.

One final thought/suggestion: should the horsemen get a number of lives? Perhaps this could be simulated with a high withdraw rate? I had a Clan game going recently where the horsemen were just going down like punks. One died on it's first turn of existence attacking a fortified axeman in a city. Didn't even have walls. Shouldn't they be sticking around a little longer? I don't want them being unstoppable city crushers or anything, but just having them exist in the world adds a fun, unstable element that can really liven things up. Killing them should take a good bit of effort and maybe even a little luck. As it is, I dread blight far more then any of them.

I love games where the horsemen go on a rampage. In my first FFH game ever, the horsemen got insanely powerful, capturing cities each turn and eventually whole empires and continents fell. Never seen that happen again.

Constructive criticism:
First off: horsemen on a small map are way more powerful because of the amount of units on the map are less, thus they got less resistance.

Secondly: I think they are just plainly too weak. Maybe give them somekind of time related bonus so that they won't get unbreakable if they come into play early.

Last:

x Raging Horsemen

I would really like to see an option that makes the armageddon events much more powerful, not only the horsemen as suggested above. I can appreciate that many don't want too much chaos and destruction after building a huge empire but I really like that kind of gameplay and I think many more would agree but I could be wrong about the last of course.

Maybe give them Shadowwalk so you can't just hide in the cities and let them bang their heads in your walls...

Dr. Cranium out.

Stephanos and Buboes probably should lose their blitz capability because it just gives them means to kill themselves sooner, maybe give them march instead. As it is, they never last long in my games.

Yersinia however can be incredibly powerful if he gets the chance to gain a few levels, that cannibalize can be really nasty. In one of my games AC was going up like crazy so he showed up when copper axes were the best units around. He got literally invincible, nothing could stop it.

Ars Moriendi should be most powerful, being the last, but he's nowhere near as scary as Yersinia. One of his problems is that a big portion of his strength is death/unholy so he doesn't fare well against non-alive units (Yersinia has the same problem).

Giving them spells that would apply plagued, withered or diseased promotions to their enemies would help them in attacking cities too.

skallben said:

x Raging Horsemen

I would really like to see an option that makes the armageddon events much more powerful, not only the horsemen as suggested above. I can appreciate that many don't want too much chaos and destruction after building a huge empire but I really like that kind of gameplay and I think many more would agree but I could be wrong about the last of course.

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If you wanted something really crazy, this option could give them all immortal - respawning them in a random barbarian city when killed. That way if you kill them, they'll most likely go off and bug someone else, but they won't be gone until you eliminate the barbs or get lucky enough to kill them twice. This has the added bonus of making them more powerful as they conquer, because the cities they capture would become potential respawn points.

It would be nice if they spawned with barbarian Knights and War Chariots, too. Two of them should each get two war chariots, and the other two each get two knights. Or maybe one could get Knights, one War Chariots, one Beastmasters, and one Berserkers.

The Regeneration promotion, along with Body II, would be a nice touch as well.

hbar said:

If you wanted something really crazy, this option could give them all immortal - respawning them in a random barbarian city when killed. That way if you kill them, they'll most likely go off and bug someone else, but they won't be gone until you eliminate the barbs or get lucky enough to kill them twice. This has the added bonus of making them more powerful as they conquer, because the cities they capture would become potential respawn points.

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The Horsemen now auto-raze any city they capture. This was put in to prevent the common occurrence where a horseman would take a city and stay there for the rest of the game. Incidentally, should you recapture the city via culture, the horseman would simply cease to exist.

I do like the idea of them being immortal. Gives you the chance of killing them but makes it rather unlikely. Would work well if you combined it with another way to banish them from the world. Either a ritual or simply lowering the AC below their summoning threshold. Maybe 10 lower then their threshold, just to make sure they don't get banished by the little fluctuations that can occur. Of course, raising the AC over their threshold again would bring them back in. Not letting anyone get off that easily.

nice ideas in here. a gameoption to make em stronger would definitely be welcome, and tying their strength to map size makes sense too.

Fafnir13 said:

The Horsemen now auto-raze any city they capture. This was put in to prevent the common occurrence where a horseman would take a city and stay there for the rest of the game. Incidentally, should you recapture the city via culture, the horseman would simply cease to exist.

I do like the idea of them being immortal. Gives you the chance of killing them but makes it rather unlikely. Would work well if you combined it with another way to banish them from the world. Either a ritual or simply lowering the AC below their summoning threshold. Maybe 10 lower then their threshold, just to make sure they don't get banished by the little fluctuations that can occur. Of course, raising the AC over their threshold again would bring them back in. Not letting anyone get off that easily.

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just make it so they're immortal, as long as the AC is above their threshold. Once the AC drops, the immortality is gone (dunno how tough that would be to program though, you'd need a check on their immortality transportation to check the AC count).
Shame they'd still require a barbarian city though. How about making them respawn (without promo's, aka being summoned again) as long as the AC is high enough?

I guess like anything it depends on your game.

I've played games where the Horsemen were a non-factor and I saw only one or none of them. They were killed quickly.

However, with the targeting system of the AI barbs, it can work the other way too.

Individually they can be not much of a problem (assuming they don't come too early). It is especially helpful if your guys have Courage so you can attack them. However, if you get two or more bearing down on you alone, then it IS problematic. Also, remember as the Chosen One you will also be up to your elbows in 'lesser' barbs.

The most aggravating thing I find about the Horsemen is that often they Pearl Harbor you and come out of nowhere after spawning far away on a huge map. They generally take out a very veteran unit of mine in that first battle. It damages the Horseman and I can kill it, but I have lost that veteran unit and that is hard to replace.

Sarisin said:

The most aggravating thing I find about the Horsemen is that often they Pearl Harbor you and come out of nowhere after spawning far away on a huge map. They generally take out a very veteran unit of mine in that first battle. It damages the Horseman and I can kill it, but I have lost that veteran unit and that is hard to replace.

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Well I guess this is why we need a "Raging Horsemen" option because...I would rather they take out like half my empire rather than just a veteran unit. Mayhem.

Sarisin said:

The most aggravating thing I find about the Horsemen is that often they Pearl Harbor you and come out of nowhere after spawning far away on a huge map. They generally take out a very veteran unit of mine in that first battle. It damages the Horseman and I can kill it, but I have lost that veteran unit and that is hard to replace.

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I think a veteran unit is below the mininum you should lose, because actually they are meant to cause the end of the world For me the Horsemen are nothing more than dudes easy to kill, that wear some equipment. Their function is to make the end game less boring, but this function is definitively not fullfilled right now. They should all start with some First Strikes and some healing promotion like Cannibalize to prevent them to be killed by some Skeletons. I'm quite sure human controlled they would erase whole empires easily, but they are so incredibly stupid, that they often don't even manage to destroy a single city let alone to survive more than 5 turns.