Best Civilization/Leader

After reading the poll for best hero, I got curious. What do you think is the best civ? Or civ/leader combo?

I usually just play random so that it forces me to play all the civs. So I enjoy them all. But when it comes to balance, I think it is a no brainer. The Ljosalfar are hands down the best civ in the game. I play multiplayer with 3 guys and we all agreed that no human can play as them, because of the imbalance.

The reason for the imbalance is GDP (or the sum of food, hammer, coin). The elves with FoL get an ancient forest on top of every tile improvement. Add in guardian of nature and it's ridiculous. It not uncommon, mid game, to have 5 cities of 20+ size with every worked tile producing a minimum of 9 GDP. The only drawback, they are slow to get started. But even that is offset by the fact that they are extremely defensive, which allows them to survive until mid game domination. Gilden comes out early, Ljo specialize in archers, trees aid in defense, and Ljo have a very powerful defensive world spell.

As for leader, it a toss up between Amelanchier and Arendel. Being good, provides better protection from hell lands, etc. But the raider trait is nasty, so I could argue either way.

I am not denying other civs have very effective strategies, but so far, none are quite as good and reliable as the Ljosalfar FoL strategy.

What do you all think?

Khazad are very, very powerful when played correctly (which the AI never does). And of course the Calabim are really nasty is you can get past the early game.

for my MP buddies Lanun/Hannah is another non-pick (unless we somehow managed to random her)

Just with any stretch of coastal area Hannah can transform it into an immense economical machine--she'll be able to peak much earlier on than the Ljo imho.


Personally I do find that the Calabim have a very decent early game, though lacking elders (which hurts). Its pretty hard to stop massed Moroi who basically get free 20% str on all their sacrificial units to weaken defenders. And Gov Manors at Code are a very nice source of hammers pretty early on.

I agree with both recent posts.

My ranking is probably as follows:
1. Ljosalfar
2. Lannun (but most risky. no coast = bad civ)
3. Khazad

I also think the Clan of Embers and Doviello are extremely dangerous wild cards. Given a good starting position, they can kill very early. But a mediocre start means a lackluster game and an inevitable loss.

"Best" in MP always means strongest, right? I don't know if it is possible in MP to play alone against team of two. If it is, try to play by Hannah/Archipelago against team of two humans. May be interesting.

I am partial to Tasunke. Horselord mounted units that automatically start with commando and strength I pose quite a formidable force, especially early on in the game.

Basically horses on steroids.

Automatic +20% strength
Can use enemy roads (and get more from pillaging)
Base 4 movement
+10% Withdrawl
Not to mention Warcry, which adds the Blitz promotion and +1

I like the Matzal the best so far...

However I have many civs I have yet to play.

I would say that the Bals under Keelyn are the strongest civ in the game. An attack with a massive rush during Arcane Lacuna is about the only thing that could beat them.

Beating Keelyn up before she can research sorcery works great too. She doesn't have much to help speed her along that far, Creative's pretty much it. (It is a pretty good advantage in fairness, but some support would be nice.)

Kandros Fir is the best for me. Right from the getgo he has big boosts in 3 major areas: Happiness, commerce, and military strength. In particular he has the best warriors in the game, beating out the other aggressive leaders due to having double speed if there are any hills around. As you hit midgame he keeps those advantages and gets a nice production bonus to boot. With these advantages he can get to commune of nature pretty quickly, and with that, he's even a match for Keelyn with sorcery. His endgame economy's not the greatest, but you still have the extra happiness/production/troop strength/tech edge from the early stages.

Tasunke's warriors are better in my opinion. Dwarves like forests, but tasunke does good things with any kind of road, and the raider trait also gives them that slight first strike chance.

It's a little outside the argument, but the early option of War Cry gives you the security of knowing you can out fight any nearby opponent.

Generally I think the top civs right now are the Hippus(Tasunke), the Lanun(Hannah), and the Calabim(Flauros).

While the Belseraphs have some Extremely impressive Sorcery based tricks, they blossom significantly later in the game, especially in multi player where your enemies don't let you do anything interesting with Loki.

Right now the Strongest Unique factors are:

1) Pirate Coves

2) Governor's Mansions

3) Vampires

4) Awesome Warriors

So *any* leader with access to these can be a top contender (Khandros is mentions, and he can do it). Yes, that's a bit of a joke.

Tier 2 civs are all those with some decent hastening ability early on, and that have a good gameplan after that. For instance, Keelyn's creativity (And extra happiness from Loki) can boost her a little ahead of others, and then she has both a solid Freak battle plan, and an even more Solid Mage battle plan.

Even the Kuriotates can make out fairly well by using their happiness bonus' to get ahead early, and then stay ahead by a combination of a specialist civic (guilds) and constant conquest. (Kurio's also have the fastest cultural victory, though that isn't relevant in MP).

Best Wonder is now Guild of the Nine.

It'd be a hard choice to make, but I'd probably say the Malakim or the Illians

Just because the Malakim's UU is worthless doesn't mean anything (I always seem to get horses anyways, so it negates the effect)

Okay, maybe its UB isn't that great either

But hey, spiritual/adaptive has got to be te best trait combo ever

Tasunke's warriors are better in my opinion. Dwarves like forests, but tasunke does good things with any kind of road, and the raider trait also gives them that slight first strike chance.

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Axemen are the flavor of the day by the time there are enough roads for raider to be significant.

Zechnophobe said:

Right now the Strongest Unique factors are:

1) Pirate Coves

2) Governor's Mansions

3) Vampires

4) Awesome Warriors

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No love for forest cottages/farms/mines for the elves? I'd put +1 hammer in every tile above awesome warriors (but below the other three).

What about unique summons? No love for Sand Lions and Puppets as power players? Though I must admit Sand Lions are more effective under control of a Summoner leader. Quite the impressive range when that used to be my favorite tactic.

It depends entirely on conditions. For instance on a barbarian heavy map, Sandalphon is unstoppable. Even more broken than Lanun on islands IMHO.

i agree that the elves are pretty nasty if you are a smarter player. all the synergy with recon lines and alazkan on the dark is disgusting, while the ljos are nasty for reasons already mentioned.

xienwolf said:

What about unique summons? No love for Sand Lions and Puppets as power players? Though I must admit Sand Lions are more effective under control of a Summoner leader. Quite the impressive range when that used to be my favorite tactic.

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Yea i forgot lol~ Keelyn's off-limits too

Terrorists/Svartalfar.
+ effective recon units (sinister and hidden nationality)
+ Alazkan (9/6 at start, +1 poisoned blade, +2/2 promo, with 2 (+2) movement pts, mirror and HN)
+ elven ability to build improvements on forests (36+ population in cities with FoL)
- world spell
Calabim. Strongest military in the game.
Other strong civs are ljosafar and khazad. Lanun? Only on archipelago.

The elven forest building thing is a bit overrated, I feel, because of elven worker speed penalty + the sheer length of time it takes to terraform a forested square for anyone. Sure it's great once all your worked tiles have improvements, but if you're an elven civ that takes so damn LONG to set up...

Less important but still worth considering is that forests choke the commerce bonus from rivers.

I still rate Arendel quite high, though, because Spiritual + Creative is that awesome and while the forest building isn't the god mode some people mkae it out to be, it's still definitely good.

tharg said:

It depends entirely on conditions. For instance on a barbarian heavy map, Sandalphon is unstoppable. Even more broken than Lanun on islands IMHO.

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Agreed. Sidar do not even need more than a few cities to dominate the game.

The Svartalfar and Alazkan also beat the Ljosalfar hands down imo.