Diplomacy Discussion Thread

I know it's early but I think we should start thinking about a number of things.

Our diplomacy ranks are deep and should give us a distinct advantage. We need to use this to the fullest extent.

So I'll start with a few questions...
Espionage is a new component in the diplomacy game. How do we intend on using this or not using this? Are we willing to negotiate our espionage knowledge?

Are there any tech trades that are completely off limits? In other words, do we have certain long term goals that would make it not conducive for any tech trade?

Are we willing to give favorable treatment on beakers to solidify our position?

Backstabbing? Personally, I'm against it but realize it could very likely be used against us.

Should we drip on teams on a regular basis even when they're non responsive?

Do any of you have reports on other players we should be aware of talent wise? IE turnplayers and diplomats?

Discuss this and all the other things that are important.

I've played around with espionage... I'm not sure how useful it is, but I do know that the AI loves spies.

Tech trades - I think that there are trades we should not make - priesthood, for instance, if we are going for Oracle. What they are, I'm not sure right now.

I'm ok with giving up more in beakers than we get if it's an important tech or if we have a long-term ally. But I don't want to do that all the time.

What about valuing resources? Iron is worth more than wines, for instance, but how much more?

War resources are interesting because I think there's always capability to trade a resource in exchange for firepower just when we plan to use it. Other teams are reading the tea leaves like we are and when you go from a non threat to a threat in a turn it can wreak havoc on a enemy.

I think we're going to need to be prepared to buy our way into an alliance.

That means nearly giving away the farm, if that's what we have to do.

I'm willing to bet heavily that our team is already on the top of the hit list for most of the other teams, due to the strength of our team. This can work to our advantage, if we're willing to be very generous. We just need to convince at least one other team that it will be better to work with us than to fight us.

Once we can survive and stay strong till we get our hands on our UU and UB Dike - then we'll be in a position to throw our weight around.

Till then, I think we need to play it very humble and very cooperative.

My 2 cents off the top of my head.

Rule #1 Offence is the best Defence.

Rule #2 is from the game, don't wage a gun fight with swords.

Rule #3 war number #1 in MP never until you have macemen....but usually riflemen and cannons are the best.

Whomp said:

Espionage...How do we intend on using this or not using this? Are we willing to negotiate our espionage knowledge?

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In a game such as this, where the meta-game is where the action really is, I think the Espionage opens up a whole new dynamic. We could actually assist another civ in a military campaign through the use of our spies as intel gatherers and saboteurs. Although this may compromise our neutrality if we are caught.

In this sense it is important to maintain a high level of Espionage spending IOT ensure that we are either uncontested or, at a minimum, on-par with the highest team(s).

Whomp said:

Backstabbing?

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To establish our trustworthiness I think it is diplomatically and politically important not to back stab any of the other Civs until we are ready to secure our victory through a crushing military campaign, if necessary. At that point, all bets are off.

Whomp said:

Are we willing to give favorable treatment on beakers to solidify our position?

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The General brings up an intersting point, but putting our collective peckers on the block might bite us in the ass...as was mentioned, backstabbing should be expected.

Whomp said:

Should we drip on teams on a regular basis even when they're non responsive?

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What's a drip?

Drip is like a leaky faucet. You keep dripping on them even if they don't respond. Some teams tend to be quiet until you hit them up so often diplomatically they eventually have to open up.

I think this game will largely be decided in the diplomatic arena. Without a solid diplomatic game we will quickly fall behind in tech. So I'm happy to see the out of box thinking taking place in this thread. Whomp posses excellent questions, many of which I don't think can be answered at this time, but are still good to think about now in preparation for that time.

However, I am not in favor of the drip. If a team is hard to get to open up, they will likely be a poor ally. If we conduct a successful drip we should then act with the utmost caution during iterations with that team. Particularly in cases of war.

He here what I would suggest for a general outline of our diplomatic activity:

Phase One - Extend the peace feelers: Immediately upon contact with each civ send a friendly greeting stating our hope for future collaboration. Continue exchanging messages with any civ that is responsive, even if we have nothing to talk about. Fluff is fine for building relationships.

The point of this phase is to identify which teams we can work with and that might make solid allies down the road. Because of the large world size with few occupants, war is unlikely during this phase.

Phase Two - Quid pro quo: Seek open boarders agreements and tech trades of equal value in order to build relations and keep us on top of the tech race.

Phase Three - Tech alliance: If a solid relation has been formed then two teams can work together by agreeing which techs each will research to avoid duplication of efforts.

Phase Four - Espionage Neutrality: A simple agreement to stop investing valuable in each other. If the current rate is 300 to 256, the lower team would be allowed to invest up to 300, after which neither team would invest further nor conduct missions against the other party. This simple lets us redirect our points to a more valuable opponent, and further strengthens the alliance.

Phase Five - Joint War Planning: We must truly be trusting of our alliance at this point to avoid the dreaded .

One additional step we can take to strengthen our diplomacy is to track everyone's espionage rating with each other, not just with us. This would tell us who is spying on whom and whether they are actually conducting operations. We could use this to blackmail the spyer ("we know what you did") or gain good will with the victim ("we know who destroyed that improvement").

So I'll start with a few questions...
Espionage is a new component in the diplomacy game. How do we intend on using this or not using this? Are we willing to negotiate our espionage knowledge?

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Use it to the best that it can be, any information of any kind can tell alot of a teams intention, if this by in game or out game means (within the rules of course) then I say we purse it to the best we can, giving our other commitments

Are there any tech trades that are completely off limits? In other words, do we have certain long term goals that would make it not conducive for any tech trade?

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There are no techs that are off limits, just ones that we may be able to get a higher price than the ingame value, due to the importance of that tech.

Are we willing to give favorable treatment on beakers to solidify our position?

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Yes, again if the occasion calls for it.

Backstabbing? Personally, I'm against it but realize it could very likely be used against us.

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Yes, if the occassion calls for it. And the value of doing it outweighs the diplomatic cost of doing it.

Should we drip on teams on a regular basis even when they're non responsive?

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Yes, not too often, but enough to see how they are playing their hand.