Role Play Challenge: The Return of the Russian Spy

madscientist · Jan 18, 2009, 05:40 AM

Welcome to my latest Role Play Challenge, the Return of Peter the Russian Spy! These games are meant to be entertaining a educational with a unique twist on our beloved leaders and/or history as only a Mad Scientist can view them!

Here we are trying one more time to run an Espionage Economy (EE) using Peter the Great of Russia and getting most of our research via the espionage slider. But not all! As you may recall I tried this RPC two earlier times, the first we were overrun by the Zulu army (Curse Shaka!) and the second we ended up in an unwinnable situation after diplomacy caved in. Here I hope to do better as I have a much better understanding of the EE!

Game Settings!

Big/Little Map
Low shoreline with medium continents (hopefully we have at least 2 AIs on our land mass)
Monarch difficulty and marathon speed

RULES!

1) We must make all attempts to get the Great Wall!
2) Great Spies can only be used for Scotland yards.
3) Other Great People we inadvertantly get may be used anyway.
4) We are allows to run any specialists we want although we certainly do want to focus on spies when possible. Thus we can run either cottages or farms. However, caste system is disallowed to avoid a real SE game.
5) We have the science slider at maximum until alphabet which we must somewhat beeline. After alphabet science and espionage shopuld be equal.
6) Once we get Code of Laws we have to turn the science slider completely off and maximize espionage.
7) Last, constitution/democracy/communism MUST be beelined.

There you have it, let's see if the third time is a charm.

Our leader

And the map

Well, not the best start ever?! How do we proceed here?

My first thought is to settle 1 spot south to get the deer but that loses forrest and a hill plus get's us 1 tundra? Maybe better to settle in palce.

Techpath, if we do not move I say either fishing or AH followed by the other. Then BW/archery/Masonry, that' 5techs techs until we can hit the Great Wall.

TheMeInTeam · Jan 18, 2009, 05:51 AM

Kind of contradictory rules. If the slider is off, you steal what you can (aka how are you going to beeline anything after CoL

.

Paranoia is over. So I'm back. Ah but, this doesn't look like a super bureaucracy capitol site. In test games, I've found that bureaucracy + SY is completely ridiculous.

I wish were were allowed to settle even more spies there though. Oh well. I'll make do since it's on monarch.

Edit: I suggest 1S btw.

Straight Fishing, AH, Masonry. Get an early settler out, then the wall/BW. Move on from there depending on surroundings. That's a pretty guaranteed GW.

Diamondeye · Jan 18, 2009, 05:57 AM

Where is this "palce" you seem to mention settling?

No, seriously, good luck, this variant really looks difficult. Was fun being in on the Paranoia btw, I hope you got inspired to joining in on the DI V, or the next Intervention at least.

TheMeInTeam · Jan 18, 2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondeye

Where is this "palce" you seem to mention settling?

No, seriously, good luck, this variant really looks difficult. Was fun being in on the Paranoia btw, I hope you got inspired to joining in on the DI V, or the next Intervention at least.

Difficult my foot

.

To 1 AD.

Spoiler:

madscientist · Jan 19, 2009, 05:56 AM

The Return of the Russian Spy: Part I

welll MIT may be right and it may be easy but we shall see (No, I did not look at his spoilers).

We start by settling in place as nowhere looked any better and I will trust the random map generator.

Our tech path went: Fishing/Archery/AH/Wheel start mysticism.

The build orders were: scout/WB (whipped)/warrior/archer/archer/Great Wall

Our scouting efforts were exceptional, nabbing us 255 gold, a map, fishing AND

SWEET!

And the bigger question, do we have access to copper

Yes we do, in a pretty decent location!

We then meet two leaders

Not the best and not the worst. Good techers but not great. Perhaps we can find a better techer to steal from. Zara looks to be overseas but close (NE) and Kublai is connected by land (I saw a scout) but likely far away.

After AH we find

Horses in the BFC! Cossacks for sure!

And after chopping only 2 forrests

So we are free from Barbs and only 75 turns from the first GSpy!

A more fuller map

Lot's of land to settler and establish a strong EE game. All that really matters is how far away Kublai is and whether we need to stretch out the empire early to block the NW lands off. That Northern penninsula leads nowhere, so it's just the NW area, probably one well placed city would do the trick!

Techs, I am looking at

Mysticism
Agriculture
Pottery
Sailing
writing

Then alphabet, followed by the fastest CoL beeline.

bestje · Jan 19, 2009, 07:21 AM

putting a city on the plains square 1S of the fish should block off that whole area for you, the problem is you would have to delay some great city sites near your start.
I think I'd be inclined to settle the blocking city 3rd/4th

you're confident of being able to steal enough techs to get cosscks then?

apenpaap · Jan 19, 2009, 01:26 PM

this is, as TMIT said, quite an easy one, but after the hell we put you through in paranoia, you deserve an easy RPC.

I think you should settle the blocking city ASAP. The AI has an annoying habit of settling in your lands very quickly.

Celebithil · Jan 19, 2009, 09:22 PM

@TMIT

Spoiler:

Sian · Jan 19, 2009, 10:09 PM

i'd rather place it 2s1e of the fish (2e from Cow) ... it'll still block decently enough when first border pops, and it gains the clams, thereby becoming a decent GP Farm short-mid term (fish,clam,cow).

TheMeInTeam · Jan 19, 2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celebithil

@TMIT

Spoiler:

@ Mad

You beat me to the great wall by 12 turns

. I got a 2nd city first though. I'm interested to see which plays out better in your next couple of turns...I had an idle worker for some time as a result (not used to marathon) but the production from an extra city earlier might overcome that somewhat. Particularly interesting because you're coming out with your settler now, so it's REALLY a question of order.

Quote:

i'd rather place it 2s1e of the fish (2e from Cow) ... it'll still block decently enough when first border pops, and it gains the clams, thereby becoming a decent GP Farm short-mid term (fish,clam,cow).

Not a bad idea...wish i'd thought of it.

Sian · Jan 19, 2009, 10:55 PM

@TMIT

Spoiler:

TheMeInTeam · Jan 19, 2009, 11:01 PM

Oh crap you're right

Spoiler:

Celebithil · Jan 20, 2009, 11:35 PM

@TMIT

Spoiler:

I calculate the odds of winning with a healthy scout without fortification bonus versus a healthy animal at monarch difficulty (for the difficulty dependent bonus). It turns out C2 is not a bad choice indeed, though it depends what you want.

Versus Wolf

Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill
No: 99/100/100/100
W1: 99/100/100/100
G1: 99/100/100/100
C1: 100/100/100/100
W2: 99/100/100/100
G2: 99/100/100/100
C2: 100/100/100/100
W1G1: 99/100/100/100
W1C1: 100/100/100/100
G1C1: 100/100/100/100

Versus Lion/Panther

Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill
No: 68/74/79/90
W1: 68/74/89/95
G1: 68/78/79/95
C1: 71/76/88/91
W2: 68/74/96/97
G2: 68/90/79/97
C2: 73/78/89/95
W1G1: 68/78/89/96
W1C1: 71/76/90/96
G1C1: 71/80/88/96

Versus Bear

Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill
No: 21/26/31/37
W1: 21/26/36/65
G1: 21/30/31/65
C1: 23/28/34/63
W2: 21/26/66/71
G2: 21/37/31/71
C2: 25/30/36/65
W1G1: 21/30/36/69
W1C1: 23/28/50/67
G1C1: 23/32/34/67

Conclusions: Versus a Wolf you nearly always win anyway, versus Lions/Panthers there are not big differences except that G2 works much better on unforested hills, but much worse on unhilled forests (and W2 is really good there). Remains against Bears, here there are not that many differences, but W2 shines on flat forests (W1C1 is right at the jump cut, so only picks half of it). In total I think these odds, if they give an advantage, give it to W2. With the extra movement, I'll stick to W2.

Note that which is best is difficulty dependent as the difficulty bonus puts the famous "jumps" in the odds at different spots, so some may or may not cross such a jump after changing the difficulty. For example that is why W1 does almost nothing on flat forested squares vs. a Bear, while W2 nearly doubles the winning odds. At a different difficulty W1 might be very important, while W2 does nearly nothing extra.

These odds are calculated incorporating the 20% bonus to animals from Monarch difficulty, the terrain bonuses, the bonuses from the appropriate promotions and the bonus scouts get versus animals. (Note that the difficulty bonus implies scouts on flat terrain have more than 50% odds against Lions).

PS If anyone knows how to do tables on these forums I'd love to hear how.

Whitedragon · Jan 21, 2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celebithil

@TMIT

Spoiler:

PS If anyone knows how to do tables on these forums I'd love to hear how.

How exactly did you come up with those numbers? I'm assuming that you forgot that Scouts get +100% vs. Animals. Thus, an unpromoted scout should have a 50-50 chance against lions and panthers without any terrain or fortification bonuses. (Not the 4% as listed above.)

madscientist · Jan 21, 2009, 07:01 PM

Terurn of teh Russian Spy: Part II

Moving along on the game, and I do nto want to jinx us but seams like a strong start with possibly an interesting diplomatic setup!. But we shall see.

We start by finishing our settler and sending him off to block off some land, but...

Cramps our style a little bit here as I cannot block off the land with one city. So I decided to venture forth a little bit more.

But before that we met AI #3

So we got Zara, Gilgamesh, and Kublai.

Now we moved the city further along the penninsula

This proved a great move as you will see later.

Tehcpath went: mysticism/pottery/agriculture/sailing/writing/alphabet/priesthood.

The next city we placed close to the capital to generate some needed commerce

We then met everyone's favorite Zealot

Important NOTE:

Kublai is Hindu and the Hindu founder
Gilgamesh is Jewish and the Judaist founder
Isabella is Buddhist is the Buddhist founder.

We finally generated our first GSpy

Which we used for Scottland Yard

We proceeded to get the copper hooked up and got some axes going as I do not want our western cities looking too tempting!

We dropped city #4

Which completely blocks off the AI. At the save we still do not have open borders!

Now Kublai and Gilgamesh are right next to each other which set off

Good, beat up each other!

We eventually got

And the next step is Code of Laws, but Confuscianism has alreayd been founded! Note that Zara is currently Confuscian, and the founder.

So how often does this happen! 4 religions founded by 4 different leaders and here we are with massive amounts of land and no open borders!

We still need to desperately connect western and eastern Russia and I found this screen shot particularly funny

Seams like everyonbe wants a road to that Oasis!

So after teching alphabet we look at techs

And make some trades

And do we have iron

You bet we do!!!!!! And right in the BFC of St. Petersberg!

A minor trade with Isabella to open up CoL

So our espionage slider is at arround 30%, and so is the Science slider. I am NOT rushing CoL and NOT runnning scientists in Moscow as I want another "Untarnished" GSpy for the next Russina espionage city!

We moved a modest stack towards that Annoying Barb city

And kept it for city #5.

We saved here, building more military, spies and settlers (or planning to). My feeling is to max out th land and who cares if the espionage slider drops to 10-20%, it will rise eventually and we are getting good espionage from Moscow.

Speaking of espionage, no plan yet and I am evenly distributing eps! I will redirect once we decide who is the tech king, and right now none look too strong.

A view of the land

Techs

Metal casting sure looks tempting there!

So there you have it! I think walls and a mixture of units in Rostov and St. Pete incase those Ais get any ideas. But to be honest I think diplomacy should favor us. My biggest concern is noone wants open borders and the techpace stagnates here, but so be it! There is nothing to say we cannot overrun the lands in the middle ages if need be!

Loki Strikes · Jan 21, 2009, 07:18 PM

Stellar early city locations there, iron and blocking with St. Pete is amazing, you have lots of land, I would prioritize walls in nearly all your cities tbh as they are required for castles which give an espy boost which will be much appreciated I am sure as it is essentially a spy's library(but better) with the 25% esp boost and the additional trade route gives more commerce... which goes back into espy for you. Another point favoring walls is, you have a large area of blocked land and 2 chokepoints, which will not require a large standing army... and by building walls to castles not only gives you espy, but decreases the need for large armies. However you can always go out and conquer like a madman(pun intended), however this map looks like a cakewalk based on your early expansion and the AI religious strife, so an exercise in finesse would be better to read and learn from.

Celebithil · Jan 21, 2009, 08:02 PM

Why don't you just try and steal CoL from Zara? You want an espionage economy after all, and self-researching it will probably take longer.

And I think you should try and found another religion and adopt that as your state religion, just to make the party complete (not sure how you want to do that in espionage economy though, but well).

Pieman · Jan 21, 2009, 10:57 PM

Very interesting situation here. Four competing religions and rivals who are much more likely to be at each others throats rather than going after you. Time to consolidate your lands, turtle up and let the spies loose on your distracted opponents!

Sian · Jan 22, 2009, 02:11 AM

Rostov 1N would have blocked alone after a single border pop

futhermore, a city if you can make it 2s of the rice beyond Rostov/St. Pedersborg looks decent as well

madscientist · Jan 22, 2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sian

Rostov 1N would have blocked alone after a single border pop

futhermore, a city if you can make it 2s of the rice beyond Rostov/St. Pedersborg looks decent as well

You are correct about that lone city to block, but it was sort of a fast decision. When I saw the Barb city I decided I wanted it a redid my plans, so I settled more agressively to the west as Kublai was nowhere in sight. I was concerned about production for the city and was very pleased to the iron. Also since Kublai is creative I thought settling two more westernly planted cities would be a good thing so when the eventually got culture pressure they took the brunt and kept the cities protected from them. Also those 2 long penninsulas are great for defenses and the distribution of the 4 religions had no occured yet (or not so obvious).

A sfar as new cities, there are LOT of good sites! And the faster the better.

Jan 18, 2009, 05:40 AM	#1
madscientist RPC Supergenius Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 6,398	Role Play Challenge: The Return of the Russian Spy Welcome to my latest Role Play Challenge, the Return of Peter the Russian Spy! These games are meant to be entertaining a educational with a unique twist on our beloved leaders and/or history as only a Mad Scientist can view them! Here we are trying one more time to run an Espionage Economy (EE) using Peter the Great of Russia and getting most of our research via the espionage slider. But not all! As you may recall I tried this RPC two earlier times, the first we were overrun by the Zulu army (Curse Shaka!) and the second we ended up in an unwinnable situation after diplomacy caved in. Here I hope to do better as I have a much better understanding of the EE! Game Settings! Big/Little Map Low shoreline with medium continents (hopefully we have at least 2 AIs on our land mass) Monarch difficulty and marathon speed RULES! 1) We must make all attempts to get the Great Wall! 2) Great Spies can only be used for Scotland yards. 3) Other Great People we inadvertantly get may be used anyway. 4) We are allows to run any specialists we want although we certainly do want to focus on spies when possible. Thus we can run either cottages or farms. However, caste system is disallowed to avoid a real SE game. 5) We have the science slider at maximum until alphabet which we must somewhat beeline. After alphabet science and espionage shopuld be equal. 6) Once we get Code of Laws we have to turn the science slider completely off and maximize espionage. 7) Last, constitution/democracy/communism MUST be beelined. There you have it, let's see if the third time is a charm. Our leader And the map Well, not the best start ever?! How do we proceed here? My first thought is to settle 1 spot south to get the deer but that loses forrest and a hill plus get's us 1 tundra? Maybe better to settle in palce. Techpath, if we do not move I say either fishing or AH followed by the other. Then BW/archery/Masonry, that' 5techs techs until we can hit the Great Wall. __________________ Mad's RPC Series Summary threads: Classic RPC Series, Open RPC Series, The Next Generation RPC Series, Current The Next Generation RPC: Sid Meier, The Civilized Tyrant One City Challenge Club: OCCC Mad's Strategy Articles: Liberalism race, Settled Great Spy, Leaders, The Wonders! This poster apologizes for all spelling errors, he is a bit older and typing is a post-education acqusition tech! Last edited by madscientist; May 27, 2009 at 05:15 PM.

Jan 18, 2009, 05:51 AM	#2
TheMeInTeam Best.Diplo.Policy.Ever. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando Posts: 14,638	Kind of contradictory rules. If the slider is off, you steal what you can (aka how are you going to beeline anything after CoL . Paranoia is over. So I'm back. Ah but, this doesn't look like a super bureaucracy capitol site. In test games, I've found that bureaucracy + SY is completely ridiculous. I wish were were allowed to settle even more spies there though. Oh well. I'll make do since it's on monarch. Edit: I suggest 1S btw. Straight Fishing, AH, Masonry. Get an early settler out, then the wall/BW. Move on from there depending on surroundings. That's a pretty guaranteed GW. __________________ - There is no "I" in team. There is no "we" either. There is a me. - Play Faster! - YouTube Civ Walkthroughs and Map Creation! - PolyCast Co-Host! Listen in! - Watch me play LIVE Last edited by TheMeInTeam; Jan 18, 2009 at 07:08 AM.

Jan 19, 2009, 01:26 PM	#7
apenpaap Say No to Net Validations Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 825 Images: 10	this is, as TMIT said, quite an easy one, but after the hell we put you through in paranoia, you deserve an easy RPC. I think you should settle the blocking city ASAP. The AI has an annoying habit of settling in your lands very quickly. __________________ A game that leaves out the largest and fourth-largest civilizations in history does not deserve the name Civilization.

Jan 19, 2009, 09:22 PM	#8
Celebithil Warlord Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 152	@TMIT Spoiler: Why do you promote your scout along the combat line? I prefer Woodsman, for the double movement in forests/jungles and you will be defending anyway (often in woods).

Jan 19, 2009, 10:55 PM	#11
Sian King Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 953	@TMIT Spoiler: you allready placed your city there ... you could just argue that you might have tried to little to pump it for the seafood titles

Jan 18, 2009, 05:57 AM	#3
Diamondeye Outrageous Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Interblags Posts: 4,941 Images: 10	Where is this "palce" you seem to mention settling? No, seriously, good luck, this variant really looks difficult. Was fun being in on the Paranoia btw, I hope you got inspired to joining in on the DI V, or the next Intervention at least. __________________ <Luckymoose>: No you will not show pics of my sister to anyone. Phantom addiction to Final Fantasy IX rising! -9.00\|-7.95 (That's right, I just grew more anarchistic)

Jan 19, 2009, 05:56 AM	#5
madscientist RPC Supergenius Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 6,398	The Return of the Russian Spy: Part I welll MIT may be right and it may be easy but we shall see (No, I did not look at his spoilers). We start by settling in place as nowhere looked any better and I will trust the random map generator. Our tech path went: Fishing/Archery/AH/Wheel start mysticism. The build orders were: scout/WB (whipped)/warrior/archer/archer/Great Wall Our scouting efforts were exceptional, nabbing us 255 gold, a map, fishing AND SWEET! And the bigger question, do we have access to copper Yes we do, in a pretty decent location! We then meet two leaders Not the best and not the worst. Good techers but not great. Perhaps we can find a better techer to steal from. Zara looks to be overseas but close (NE) and Kublai is connected by land (I saw a scout) but likely far away. After AH we find Horses in the BFC! Cossacks for sure! And after chopping only 2 forrests So we are free from Barbs and only 75 turns from the first GSpy! A more fuller map Lot's of land to settler and establish a strong EE game. All that really matters is how far away Kublai is and whether we need to stretch out the empire early to block the NW lands off. That Northern penninsula leads nowhere, so it's just the NW area, probably one well placed city would do the trick! Techs, I am looking at Mysticism Agriculture Pottery Sailing writing Then alphabet, followed by the fastest CoL beeline. __________________ Mad's RPC Series Summary threads: Classic RPC Series, Open RPC Series, The Next Generation RPC Series, Current The Next Generation RPC: Sid Meier, The Civilized Tyrant One City Challenge Club: OCCC Mad's Strategy Articles: Liberalism race, Settled Great Spy, Leaders, The Wonders! This poster apologizes for all spelling errors, he is a bit older and typing is a post-education acqusition tech! Last edited by madscientist; May 27, 2009 at 05:15 PM.

Jan 19, 2009, 07:21 AM	#6
bestje Big Game Hunter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 761	putting a city on the plains square 1S of the fish should block off that whole area for you, the problem is you would have to delay some great city sites near your start. I think I'd be inclined to settle the blocking city 3rd/4th you're confident of being able to steal enough techs to get cosscks then?

Jan 19, 2009, 10:09 PM	#9
Sian King Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 953	i'd rather place it 2s1e of the fish (2e from Cow) ... it'll still block decently enough when first border pops, and it gains the clams, thereby becoming a decent GP Farm short-mid term (fish,clam,cow).

Jan 19, 2009, 11:01 PM	#12
TheMeInTeam Best.Diplo.Policy.Ever. Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orlando Posts: 14,638	Oh crap you're right Spoiler: I was thinking of something else. I wanted that fish tile, and acknowledging that KK was going to settle it soon, tried to get there first. He beat me with that city to the W of the cows by a few turns though so I had to take the less aggressive placement . Remember, every city you claim instead of the AI is one less you have to take later...this time I came up a little short. I don't think it will matter here though because this is a very generous map. __________________ - There is no "I" in team. There is no "we" either. There is a me. - Play Faster! - YouTube Civ Walkthroughs and Map Creation! - PolyCast Co-Host! Listen in! - Watch me play LIVE

Jan 20, 2009, 11:35 PM	#13
Celebithil Warlord Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 152	@TMIT Spoiler: I calculate the odds of winning with a healthy scout without fortification bonus versus a healthy animal at monarch difficulty (for the difficulty dependent bonus). It turns out C2 is not a bad choice indeed, though it depends what you want. Versus Wolf Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill No: 99/100/100/100 W1: 99/100/100/100 G1: 99/100/100/100 C1: 100/100/100/100 W2: 99/100/100/100 G2: 99/100/100/100 C2: 100/100/100/100 W1G1: 99/100/100/100 W1C1: 100/100/100/100 G1C1: 100/100/100/100 Versus Lion/Panther Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill No: 68/74/79/90 W1: 68/74/89/95 G1: 68/78/79/95 C1: 71/76/88/91 W2: 68/74/96/97 G2: 68/90/79/97 C2: 73/78/89/95 W1G1: 68/78/89/96 W1C1: 71/76/90/96 G1C1: 71/80/88/96 Versus Bear Promos: Flat/Hill/Forest/ForestHill No: 21/26/31/37 W1: 21/26/36/65 G1: 21/30/31/65 C1: 23/28/34/63 W2: 21/26/66/71 G2: 21/37/31/71 C2: 25/30/36/65 W1G1: 21/30/36/69 W1C1: 23/28/50/67 G1C1: 23/32/34/67 Conclusions: Versus a Wolf you nearly always win anyway, versus Lions/Panthers there are not big differences except that G2 works much better on unforested hills, but much worse on unhilled forests (and W2 is really good there). Remains against Bears, here there are not that many differences, but W2 shines on flat forests (W1C1 is right at the jump cut, so only picks half of it). In total I think these odds, if they give an advantage, give it to W2. With the extra movement, I'll stick to W2. Note that which is best is difficulty dependent as the difficulty bonus puts the famous "jumps" in the odds at different spots, so some may or may not cross such a jump after changing the difficulty. For example that is why W1 does almost nothing on flat forested squares vs. a Bear, while W2 nearly doubles the winning odds. At a different difficulty W1 might be very important, while W2 does nearly nothing extra. These odds are calculated incorporating the 20% bonus to animals from Monarch difficulty, the terrain bonuses, the bonuses from the appropriate promotions and the bonus scouts get versus animals. (Note that the difficulty bonus implies scouts on flat terrain have more than 50% odds against Lions). PS If anyone knows how to do tables on these forums I'd love to hear how. Last edited by Celebithil; Jan 21, 2009 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Updated to reflect Whitedragon's remark below. Thank you.

Jan 21, 2009, 07:01 PM	#15
madscientist RPC Supergenius Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 6,398	Terurn of teh Russian Spy: Part II Moving along on the game, and I do nto want to jinx us but seams like a strong start with possibly an interesting diplomatic setup!. But we shall see. We start by finishing our settler and sending him off to block off some land, but... Cramps our style a little bit here as I cannot block off the land with one city. So I decided to venture forth a little bit more. But before that we met AI #3 So we got Zara, Gilgamesh, and Kublai. Now we moved the city further along the penninsula This proved a great move as you will see later. Tehcpath went: mysticism/pottery/agriculture/sailing/writing/alphabet/priesthood. The next city we placed close to the capital to generate some needed commerce We then met everyone's favorite Zealot Important NOTE: Kublai is Hindu and the Hindu founder Gilgamesh is Jewish and the Judaist founder Isabella is Buddhist is the Buddhist founder. We finally generated our first GSpy Which we used for Scottland Yard We proceeded to get the copper hooked up and got some axes going as I do not want our western cities looking too tempting! We dropped city #4 Which completely blocks off the AI. At the save we still do not have open borders! Now Kublai and Gilgamesh are right next to each other which set off Good, beat up each other! We eventually got And the next step is Code of Laws, but Confuscianism has alreayd been founded! Note that Zara is currently Confuscian, and the founder. So how often does this happen! 4 religions founded by 4 different leaders and here we are with massive amounts of land and no open borders! We still need to desperately connect western and eastern Russia and I found this screen shot particularly funny Seams like everyonbe wants a road to that Oasis! So after teching alphabet we look at techs And make some trades And do we have iron You bet we do!!!!!! And right in the BFC of St. Petersberg! A minor trade with Isabella to open up CoL So our espionage slider is at arround 30%, and so is the Science slider. I am NOT rushing CoL and NOT runnning scientists in Moscow as I want another "Untarnished" GSpy for the next Russina espionage city! We moved a modest stack towards that Annoying Barb city And kept it for city #5. We saved here, building more military, spies and settlers (or planning to). My feeling is to max out th land and who cares if the espionage slider drops to 10-20%, it will rise eventually and we are getting good espionage from Moscow. Speaking of espionage, no plan yet and I am evenly distributing eps! I will redirect once we decide who is the tech king, and right now none look too strong. A view of the land Techs Metal casting sure looks tempting there! So there you have it! I think walls and a mixture of units in Rostov and St. Pete incase those Ais get any ideas. But to be honest I think diplomacy should favor us. My biggest concern is noone wants open borders and the techpace stagnates here, but so be it! There is nothing to say we cannot overrun the lands in the middle ages if need be! __________________ Mad's RPC Series Summary threads: Classic RPC Series, Open RPC Series, The Next Generation RPC Series, Current The Next Generation RPC: Sid Meier, The Civilized Tyrant One City Challenge Club: OCCC Mad's Strategy Articles: Liberalism race, Settled Great Spy, Leaders, The Wonders! This poster apologizes for all spelling errors, he is a bit older and typing is a post-education acqusition tech! Last edited by madscientist; May 27, 2009 at 05:15 PM.

Jan 21, 2009, 07:18 PM	#16
Loki Strikes Prince Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 506	Stellar early city locations there, iron and blocking with St. Pete is amazing, you have lots of land, I would prioritize walls in nearly all your cities tbh as they are required for castles which give an espy boost which will be much appreciated I am sure as it is essentially a spy's library(but better) with the 25% esp boost and the additional trade route gives more commerce... which goes back into espy for you. Another point favoring walls is, you have a large area of blocked land and 2 chokepoints, which will not require a large standing army... and by building walls to castles not only gives you espy, but decreases the need for large armies. However you can always go out and conquer like a madman(pun intended), however this map looks like a cakewalk based on your early expansion and the AI religious strife, so an exercise in finesse would be better to read and learn from. __________________ It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt - Mark Twain Currently Playing: Completed: TH I, TH II, TH III, P3-01, P3-02, Boff-06

Jan 21, 2009, 08:02 PM	#17
Celebithil Warlord Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 152	Why don't you just try and steal CoL from Zara? You want an espionage economy after all, and self-researching it will probably take longer. And I think you should try and found another religion and adopt that as your state religion, just to make the party complete (not sure how you want to do that in espionage economy though, but well).

Jan 21, 2009, 10:57 PM	#18
Pieman Warlord Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Where you aren't Posts: 297	Very interesting situation here. Four competing religions and rivals who are much more likely to be at each others throats rather than going after you. Time to consolidate your lands, turtle up and let the spies loose on your distracted opponents! __________________ "A day without laughter is a day most wasted"

Jan 22, 2009, 02:11 AM	#19
Sian King Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 953	Rostov 1N would have blocked alone after a single border pop futhermore, a city if you can make it 2s of the rice beyond Rostov/St. Pedersborg looks decent as well

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Role Play Challenge: Peter Spy Extraordinaire	madscientist	Civ4 - Strategy & Tips	41	Nov 30, 2009 06:21 AM
Role Play Challenge: Paranoia!	madscientist	Civ4 - Strategy & Tips	304	Jan 20, 2009 11:07 AM
Role Play Challenge: GREED THREE!!!	madscientist	Civ4 - Strategy & Tips	122	Aug 13, 2008 05:21 PM
Role Play Challenge: Return of the Great Khan, An open RPC game	madscientist	Civ4 - Strategy & Tips	76	Jun 11, 2008 08:18 AM
Role Play Challenge: Peter, Spy Extraordinaire II	madscientist	Civ4 - Strategy & Tips	76	Jan 16, 2008 09:19 AM

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. This site is copyright © 2000 - 2009, Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com \| EB Games \| Amazon UK \| Amazon DE \| Amazon CA \| Amazon FR