Has anyone ever used social order?

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Social order vs. religion civics - why would I want to use social order even if I am following the Order religion?

Religion comes earlier and is able (and likely) to give more happy faces. So who has used social order and why?
 
I use it, because I can get more happy faces from it than religion. Religion would require me to go and spread 5+ religions per city, whereas I'm already likely to have at least 5 military units in each one.
 
Try it with vampires. Build the Governor's Manor, farm everything up, crank out a bunch of 1-turn warriors for MP duty, and watch your pop skyrocket, with a correspondingly ridiculous increase in production. Nothing like getting your vamps to level 6 with one feast. In every city.

The point of Social Order is not is not to increase your happy cap by a reasonable amount. The point is to MASSIVELY increase your happy cap, and gear your strategy around having absurdly large cities (for vampire Feasting, or for huge SE power with other civs, or for getting enough Priests to shoot for an Altar victory).
 
Hmmm...I'll have to try that sometime. I usually just go Tower of Complacency to create my prime feeding spot. Being able to create a number of them would be fun.
 
Tower of complacency is a bad idea for Calabim. You lose lots of production. Better get a place that brings in tons of food and build a city with slums and pillar of chains there. Then set the city to emphasize food. Farm everything. You get 2 extra hammers for every new pop, in addition to whatever they produce anyway, and that city will grow enormous.
 
I thought the tower's only production penalty was -10% military? That's pretty trivial.
 
Fafnir13 probably meant Pillar of Chains. That wonder doubles the effect of the Governor's Manor (doesn't it?). The Calabim should NEVER build the Tower of Complacency. I don't often choose OO with Calabim anyway. FoL is a good one if you have a lot of trees. RoK first to get you neutral, so you don't get everything burned.
 
I disagree on the "Calabim should never build the Tower of Complacency" thing. For starters, it only disables the Governor's Manor/Pillar of Chains in one city; just build the Tower in your GPP farm and plot the Pillar in a city with high production. Problem solved.

If you really need the production in your Tower city, pick up Guilds and assign the extra citizens as engineers or whatever you need at the moment. Even just setting them to work a mine or other resource is better than letting them stay unhappy. The only way having unhappy citizens would be better than happy ones is if your population is over 21, and by then it's time to mow the lawn, anyway. :evil:
 
cabbagemeister said:
Try it with vampires. Build the Governor's Manor, farm everything up, crank out a bunch of 1-turn warriors for MP duty, and watch your pop skyrocket, with a correspondingly ridiculous increase in production. Nothing like getting your vamps to level 6 with one feast. In every city.

The point of Social Order is not is not to increase your happy cap by a reasonable amount. The point is to MASSIVELY increase your happy cap, and gear your strategy around having absurdly large cities (for vampire Feasting, or for huge SE power with other civs, or for getting enough Priests to shoot for an Altar victory).
Click to expand...

Could someone please tell me what those abbreviations are (MP and SE)?
 
MrUnderhill said:
Even just setting them to work a mine or other resource is better than letting them stay unhappy. The only way having unhappy citizens would be better than happy ones is if your population is over 21, and by then it's time to mow the lawn, anyway. :evil:
Click to expand...

I somewhat disagree with this statement: Even though unhappy citizens are only +1 production, even content citizens add +1 hammer with the manor. So a city with 20 happiness and 20 unhappiness doesn't only allow for 20 workable tiles / specialists, it also adds +20 production. The tower removes that +20 production, which usually isn't that easy to compensate for. This is different for a GP farm, where the production is trivial anyway (after you've built the food/health+ buildings), but in almost every other city, that -20 loss just isn't worth it.
 
I just tried out my first game as Order-Calabim. I quite liked Social Order. Despite feasting on my population whenever I fancied, I was still well into the positives as far as my :) to :mad: ratio went. I've never been a big fan of the Order but I might give it a go a bit more in the future, the Civic is quite neat.
 
Order-Vampires are just nasty, in addition to being utterly lorebreakingly hillarious at times.

Vampires with Blessed Weapons? Check.
We Love The King Day after three Feasts last turn? Check.
Vampire Phanuel? Check.
 
I wouldn't say that Order is lore breaking as Calabim, actually fits them very well in my opinion.
 
for some reason, i recon RoK would be pretty lore-breaking for the calabim: RoK is about profiting from your hard labour, but in the calabim empire, the citizens don't get anything from their work, while the vampires just sit back and watch the goodies roll in. The only exception to this are the moroi, but that's just the military.

Esus is a natural fit, as is FoL (dominance of the strongest). OO and AV aren't that far off eighter (ordering people around becomes even easier if you make them believe the order comes from the overlords, all vampires are power hungry).
Order works for pretty much the same reason OO works: see the mulcarn scenario's for further info. Added to that, order has a very strict hierarchy which the vampires would exploit.
Empyrean would be pretty funny though. I can only imagine this as some of the "good" vampires you see on TV: gifting to the ill and weak so they can overcome their diseases, feeding from a national blood-bank, based on volunteers.
 
Social order = hereditary rule plus some. You are likely to have 2 archers and a mage in a city, plus a courthouse, that's 4 hapiness already.

The basilica, on the other hand, is possibly the most useless building there is. Once you get to that stage in the game, any money-boasting building will gain you more gold and cost less hammers. Summer and Winter palaces can remove colonial expenses. How often do you own more than 3 continents?
 
Well, the basilica isn't quite as useless when you consider that governors manors only give 20% reduction on upkeep. If you want to run any civic other than city states with the calabim, that extra 40(45 with the law mana that comes with the holy city) reduction from order/basilica's really helps if you are trying to abuse aristocracy(then add a few more law mana for hilarity). Nothing like being able to run 100% tech rate with 40+ cities on immortal.
 
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