Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter XXXVII: Roosevelt

r_rolo1

r_rolo1

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Welcome to the 38th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 38th game in BTS the choosed leader was Roosevelt of the Americans:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Well, another of the leaders we used in Warlords, long long time ago.....

Roosevelt is probably a leader that is more suited for peace runs than the two other American leaders. His traits ( Ind/Org ) probably is more suited for peaceful build ( Super wonderwhoring strats ... org also helps with that, by making beaurocracy less expensive ) than the Charismatic trait that Lincoln and Washighton have..... The fact that both the UU/UB are quite late will probably push that peaceful build side as well ( or atleast make a late push to Dom using SEAL, a very valid strat in isolation if you can get Industrialism fast ). About the starting techs... well, my opinion ( that is definitely a minority report in here :p ) is that Agri/Fishing is the more versatile combo, because food is the basis of everything in Civ IV and this combo allows you to have a decent food tile to work soon 90% of the times.

His UU
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

SEALs are Marines with extra first strikes.... given that SEALs don't have anti-gunpowder bonuses, this extra FS help a lot dealing with entrenched infantries ( the main weakness of marines is dealing with them ). Given the more naval and later nature of war in isolation, this UU normally comes in times for the end of the world's conquer, especially if you beeline industrialism ( that is a nice war tech by itself )
Click to expand...

His UB
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

The Mall is a boosted Supermarket that also gives :) from the Hits resources. This has all the possible uses that you can imagine for a huge :) boost ( 3 Hits resources + Mall + Broadcast towers = 9 :) ) with some food and health in the pack ( UN win boost, mangement of corp based extra pop .... ), but it also synergise very well with the UU, especially with the WW management: distract the people at home while warring abroad ( i really think that it was designed to be that way... ). A player using America can easily shut down research after Flight/Industrialism/Refrigeration and go conquer the world.
Click to expand...
To add it also gives +20% gold in the city where it is built.

The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg

Well, riverside corn when having a civ that starts with Agriculture is definitely cool... too bad thst there isn't any other resource in sight ( in spite of the forest coverage implying that there is another land food resource in the BFC ). There is a very decent ammount of hill and riverside grassland in the area and a handful of woods to chop ( with a Ind civ.... mmmm ;) ). Not top star, but definitely Ok.

Regarding the saves: given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.
Any problem PM me...


P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
 

Attachments

There's copper/iron on that hill :)
I will give this a try maybe moving settler 1 NW/1W
I am real BAD at isolated starts
 
Monarch save started me out with Archery.
 
Considering that the Financial trait is my favourite crutch, that early rushes can almost never be too early and that post Napoleonic-era warfare is my Achilles' heel; this game seems to be a hyper-challenge. Noble/normal.
Spoiler :
The island has all the wonder material except for gold so I'll probably ride that horse 'till it drops secure in the knowledge that lost wonders will make up for the mere 221 gold the huts provided. Hopefully, I get Stonehenge so that I can build early cities fully apart.
 
I'll post a full writeup later but I'm ~ 1600 AD

Spoiler :
I settled 1W and missed the sheep :(. Ah well. This slowed expansion a bit but it was still a very strong B. capitol. I got beat to lib around 1040 but clawed into the tech race...except that vicky is pulling ahead. She backstabbed me and I ap blocked her out of war instantly, but the problem is she's advanced. I have a considerable tech lead on d gaulle and izzy, but izzy is on vicky's land. I'm going to have to chance hitting izzy but vicky might wreck me :(. The alternative is to wait for infantry, and use the turn I declare to crush vicky's naval SoD, then head over to izzy.

It's annoying when 1 AI gets far out in front of the others though. Messes up trades a tad.
 
@ assass1n Point well made and certainly appreciated. However, going for some sort of late victory I'd rather like a home island of super-cities based on early pops.

As of 1110 AD
Spoiler :
the six spread-out cities have cash from three lost wonders, and five built wonders including Stonehenge.


No doubt we will play differently and less doubt I will profit from your example.
 
Giving old FDR a go here, emperor @ Marathon speed! No current RPCs to distract me.
 
Checkpoint #1

Spoiler :

Mapped out the island

LonelyFDR0000.jpg


I settled I spot north to get a few more hills as I plan to wonderspam. Techpath went: AH/mining/wheel/mysticism. Nabbed 300+ in gold and writing from huts.

Second city I planted SE for the sheep, eventualy stone, and nice hills. I am going to make a run at the GLH although that maybe tougher. Alot will depend if I cna manage to defend off barbs with chariots and warriors unless I find copper real close!


 
And 'Away we go'.

I like late game buildings, if your winning in the mid Millennium, its too easy for you. Just my opinion.

Looks great as a Food economy set up. Settle 1 west 5 hills :eek:, 4 bordered by Rivers, so +1 hammer with Levy, I've got my Military city already, just no ships.:goodjob:

Only problem is food bonuses, usually 2 per capital start, will I end up forgoing 1. Farm all grassland that's +4 food with Biology, so 3 farms for 3 plains hills and 4th farm for 2 grassland hills, then is farms for specialists and growth.

+6 corn irrigated +7 with Biology? its a farm. :hmm:

And assuming a Hill 2 south, that could be 6 hills Ironworks+West point, will make some 'Uber' Navy Seals.
 
Check point 1
And so it begins ​

Spoiler :


1st move I make is to move the Scout 1 NE, on top of the plains hill, and he spies a grassland sheep 5 food, so I move the settler 1 NW and settle, 4 plains hills, 2 riverside, 2 grassland hills both riverside.

Capitalcitydotmap.jpg


Food I'll need are [(4 plains hills*2 food each)+(2 Grassland hills *1 food each)]=10 food.

Post Biology that's 5 food from corn, 3 from sheep and 2 from a grassland farm (over and above requirements to work that tile.) I have my Military city.

Production with a levy is 18 from plains hills, 2 river side 5 each, 2 not 4 each, and 4 each from 2 grassland hills, giving 26 hammers, with no modifiers.

With 1 deer in snow to the north I have 2 of the 4 mall health resources, plus a Granary health bonus.

I move the settler 1 NW and pop the hut with my culture and receive for my trouble ....
Spoiler :

A F'n map :mad:
This also reveals that I've picked up wine in the BFC :goodjob: a source of elephants to the sw and sheep further to the west along a coast. A few peaks, 3 desert squares and oasis and 1 floodplain and 1 hut 10 tiles to the SW along a coast.


1st tech is Hunting for scouts for better hut results, then mining/bronze working. 1 city to scout out will be for the Great Light House, as we start with fishing and are industrious, with no other bonuses to building this wonder.

Oh, and upon realizing, that Deer on the Tundra only mean we are in the extreme North, and the capital WON'T build the Space Elevator, but with the Navy Seal as a UU its Conquest. :evil:

Scouting east, I find 1 hut with the warrior, saved for Scout, a site for GLH close to capital, and a site for Moai statues to the far NE tip of the land mass.

GLHandMoaistatues.jpg


Scouting with my warrior, I have a FAAWWKKK moment, when I forgo hiding in a forest, in the aim of exposing more land, and land between 2 lions.

2lions.jpg


Spoiler :
and I LOSE at 78% odds to 1 lion, the other moved away. :faint:


After finishing off my scout, 4 turns after barracks, I reveal the remainder of the Island, More Elephants and wine, we have a monopoly on both I assume, 4/standard map? I also pop one hut for a {drum roll please}
Spoiler :
A warrior, makes up for the loss to the lion, goes to fog bust 4 resources to the north


11 cities planned with another couple squeezed in there, good placement. Set up for the Great Light House. Both wonder resources, and I'm going for settler at size 4, as don't have animal husbandry to work sheep, and working max mines now.

Globemap.jpg


Oh yes, I also had a forest burnt down, with no cash, I have 1 :mad:, so max anyway so :p to you all



Edit
Spoiler :
I'll move the GLH City 1 east to pick up 2nd deer, my naval military city and Moai statues, ignoring the Tundra east coast.


and so it had now ended, onto check point 2 ​
 
Immortal/Epic - no events everything else standard

Checkpoints 1-4

1942 Domination - a lot of blood in this one because I messed up on turn 1. Nevertheless, this is my first immortal LHC win that wasn't replayed other than that AP garbage I think. It's definitely my first domination in a non-HoF cheese immortal game...

Spoiler :
Gwall

2625wall0000.jpg


I don't really like putting up with barbs in isolation, and we're IND, there's no time this wonder makes more sense. As I said before I settled 1W :(. This clearly isn't optimal since I lost the sheep. It slowed me down a little.

Ok. So, in attempting to improve, I review high-level games played by deity guys. They all have different styles. I'm starting to lean toward ABCF's tendency toward ridiculous prioritization of the bureaucracy commerce capitol, which gets lib/academy/univ/oxford/obs for 225% science. This seems to rape every time I do it and it's among the easier things to do.

Unfortunately, in this game I screwed up my capitol from the outset, then got beat to religions, and never ran caste for long. This results in

1040loselib0000.jpg


Losing liberalism. Note that despite this, I meet the other AIs and actually have things to trade, catching back into tech relevancy sooner. So even garbage mimicry of deity players is pretty effective...

The problem AI in this game, so I thought, was vicky. She declared on me (or would have, but I asked her for a gold to buy 10 turns, then she declared and voted the AP to stop the war against herself?). She held the tech lead for *most* of the game. Not for all of it! She would never set foot on my soil again though.

1605 empire

1605empire0000.jpg


1605 tech

1605tech0000.jpg


Pretty middle-of-the pack, but I've already workshopped the sp hammers into play. I decide to stick it to the AIs that can't defend themselves, after bribing some war chaos to minimize the odds that anyone tries to stop me. Izzy doesn't do very well vs infantry/cannon without rifles:

1758madrid0000.jpg


From there, I opt to take out vicky. She's got a decent amount toward culture, but is also running away in tech. Left alone, she'll definitely get internet too, and she's already completed apollo. She is, however, still a number of techs away from either MA or MI. I decide to bait her:

1822baitvickyintoizzyland0000.jpg


But backward crap head de gaulle declares too! Vicky attacks neither of us...guess she isn't too strong. She has tanks/marines/paratroopers/jet fighters blah blah. I have infantry/arty hahaahahahaha.

Her tech the turn before I capture her last city, completely eliminating her:

1864turnbeforevickydies0000.jpg


Still tech leader. Or not!

This guy still doesn't have infantry somehow so I pick him up:

1879dowdgaulle0000.jpg


1884degaullecap0000.jpg


Meanwhile, I was building wealth and running the slider 100% to get to computers first, which I did. Fred got there about 8 turns after me...too late. I win the internet and my tech situation gets really good:

1906postinternet0000.jpg


Unfortunately, Fred vassals both KK and WK (I'd bribed him into war with KK a while back, to keep both of them and especially KK off my back vs vicky).

But why not? Let's take on the rest of the world at once, rather than trying to weasel out of the map:

1921dowtherestoftheworld0000.jpg


I get repelled and base up in french land. Here comes the wave:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


It gets rained on by fighters, then bombers, then worked over by drill MArty, then completely eradicated by mech infantry. Panzers aren't so hot vs MI anyway. Nobody else does much of consequence. When I take a few cities KK and WK break off and I take peace with them. Fred gives in:

1939fredcaps0000.jpg


And I go to collect KK for myself, to finish the domination:

1941dowkk0000.jpg


1942kkcaps0000.jpg


1942domination0000.jpg


stats0000.jpg
 
Checkpoint 2, partway

Spoiler :

Met 4 more Ais although I am not sure if wang was a colony yet.

Map

FDR0000.jpg


Obviously KK is the biggest threat although staying in Bureacracy will help until I get Confuscianism spread to me. Fred is easy to get along with, and Degaulle is backwards for now. SO my strat right now is to keep the Mongols happy and tech away!

I made as many trades as I could, even unloading paper (but NOT education yet) to get reasonable tech parity

FDR0001.jpg


As I figured defending my coastal cities with warriors would be just TOO tempting for KK, I started building longbows/jumbos/crossbows for defense as well as walls.

As far as astra, I have a pretty massive WS/SSE game going and perhaps looking at a culture win. We shall see.

At emperor difficulty I got the following wonders

SH
GLH
PYR
ORAC
COL
MAUS
CI
SoZ
GL
UoS

The only one I missed out on (at least that I tried) was the Parthenon by 1 turn which helped anyway as I got ALOT of gold letting me run the slider at 90%.



Go USA!

EDIT

Spoiler :


AH!!!

Last 2 AIs! Everyone's favoite Zealot who has old Victoria down to one city! I traded alot to Victoira for theocracy before she's dead.

 
These are my thoughts just after exploring the whole island, before reading other Checkpoint 1 posts; I expect to post again after reading those. I have a couple of questions in bold green:
Spoiler checkpoint 1 :

With Industrious and Organized it seems important to wonderspam, especially with marble, stone, and copper for early wonders. I'm not sure which victory condition to aim for. Cultural might be good, since I wouldn't actually need to contact any other civs, but I forget the constraints on cultural: the various strategies seem to build around 2-3 religions, cathedrals, and a couple of specific wonders. ISTM 6 cities are enough for 2 cathedrals in each of 2 cities, with art bombs for the 3rd city; is this enough for a cultural win on Noble, or do I need a third cathedral and thus 9 cities?

On the other hand, the strategy guides I've read (Godonut's and jesusin's) focus on very specific wonders, so I couldn't just go hogwild and build everything under the sun. I suppose one of the key things I need to make the transition to Noble is to focus better, so maybe just picking a few specific wonders is where I need to go.

Is the GLH and a trade route economy viable on this map? There's be no international trade for a very long time, so I'm thinking maybe not. What about the colossus, with copper and cheap forges? Should I ignore GLH if I go for cultural?

Here are a few thoughts on city locations:
LHC38Roos2675BCdotmap7.jpg

I moved off the hill to get one more mine, thus missing the horses for my capital. It seems to me that wonderspamming makes both orange and red critical for marble and stone, respectively. Red is the poorer location, but with stone and an Industrious leader can I get stonehenge despite not starting with Mysticism and having spend 53 turns on worker techs? I'm inclined to go with orange first, a better location anyway, since I think the oracle just barely lets me get a CS slingshot despite how many turns behind I might be in the early religion techs. Buddhism has been founded and I expect Hinduism next, so I'm not in danger of creating an AI lovefest on whatever continents they occupy.

Is Yellow a reasonable place for a GP farm? It has 2 4-food tiles and 4 pre-CS farmable grasslands. 1S loses 1 grassland but gains a flood plain.

So far I've tech'ed AH, mining, and BW, and am working on wheel and pottery, a pretty conventional opening. If I decide to go for the slingshot, mysticism, meditation, priesthood, writing, and CoL would be next in some order. Writing after mysticism, to get started on a library and Great Scientist?

Black and grey are poor locations; I might need one of them for the 6th temples, but I wouldn't go for them until last, after I see where other resources turn up.
 
@ Dalamb

Spoiler :


Yes 6 cities are enough to get 2 cathedrals for each religion.

Yes, the GLH is still a viable economy. Without giving away as I played, consider the jump in commerce you can get if you nab astronomy well before any of the AIs! On the otehr hand Astronomy obsoletes the Colossus so you have a hard choice there! :D

 
I'm in for a Prince/Marathon.
Spoiler :

Tech path for this session went: Animal Husbandry - The Wheel - Mining - Masonry - Bronze Working - Fishing - Pottery.

Looking at the minimap, I moved the Warrior 1 NE to reveal Sheep. Decided to move 1 NW, and settle there. Worker build first.

Civ4ScreenShot0016-1.jpg


Warrior starts traveling East, finding Tundra and pretty crappy land. We find a tribal hut, and pop it for...

Civ4ScreenShot0017-1.jpg


A map. Great. Our intrepid Warrior rounds out this area and heads south to the mountains, where he crosses a path, beats a Wolf, then becomes Lion dinner.

Civ4ScreenShot0018-1.jpg


That's okay, I'll just work on pumping out another Warrior, then a Settler. Our second Warrior explores the east, then heads south. After surviving a Lion attack, he takes a risk and enters a tribal village. He is greeted by....

Civ4ScreenShot0019-1.jpg


Damn. He survives the first one, is raped by the second. Thankfully, our second city was founded 1SE of the Horses (on the grassland) to nab the Stone and Horses. Our first Worker builds a Pasture and starts work on a Quarry. The second Worker comes from Boston and also starts on the Quarry, halving the necessary time. They then build a road, speeding up completion in Washington of the...

Civ4ScreenShot0020-1.jpg


Finally, I build a Chariot and am aiming for a second Settler, to build New York 1SE of the Copper. The Chariot survives and FINALLY lets us reach Checkpoint One at 2170 BC (!!)...on a Marathon game...damn.

Civ4ScreenShot0021-2.jpg


Thoughts?
 
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