NC XXI: Rangar

Sian

Emperor
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
1,676
i'm going to usurp this round :)

This is the 21'th instalment of Noble Club's Series

This time we are using:


Rangar, everyones favorite wannabe Horn

Get ready for some intercontinental delivery of pain

UU is a Maceman with added city attack and free amphibious, perfect for building an medival coastal empire, UB is a Lighthouse which makes your ships faster

the start?
Spoiler :


The map we're playing this time is a large Techtonic map with the appointed tons of hills and mountains

And here is the standard cut and paste of our Club Doctrine, courtesy of when Bleys was hosting the series and relentlessly vultured:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG or HoF Mods), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XXI". This allows you to play with your favorite Mod at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs (unless your host gets too creative). The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main effects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech archery themselves.

In addition, because of the variations of using the Scenario menu, your starting Scout/Warrior may not be in exactly the same spot as the one shown. If you're warrior is in a different place, just use it to your advantage!

Starting Zip file
 

Attachments

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The map is at Monarch setting.

What happens when we change it to Noble? Does the AI lose it's Monarch advantages?
 
Is it really at monarch? Maybe Sian messed up :p.

I'm at school at the moment - well I have a meeting at 5pm here and then we have to go over our baseline for our consulting project. I won't be able to fix it up for a few hours.

AIs will retain techs like archery, but their bonuses will be noble level if you set the difficulty there.

Large has some implications over standard. I wasn't expecting Sian to use large tectonics, but it will still be a good learning experience. As I don't know the map for the first NC in so many games, I will lend more insight since I know I'm not spoiling anything in saying it:

For large, you're virtually guaranteed to have more room to expand. National wonders require 7 cities, too, but you'll almost always be able to get that on most difficulties.

The start, and non-tropical tectonics in general, is pretty food poor. Since we're coastal, I suggest taking advantage of the production and cranking out either GLH or colossus - each will help expansion and make decent use of bureaucracy when the time comes.

Finally, don't get discouraged on this map script even if you feel slow. That's part of playing with extra plains. Note that the AIs will be hamstrung too, and will invariably adapt poorly to it. This may well wind up easier than a standard game, but do be careful with the larger size and truly big AIs - tech lead or vassal abuse is recommended in dealing with them.
 
Monarch setting ... let me check ... oh that ... don't worry ... i've played that much with the WB that they doesn't have any of the advantages ... if they (against my knowlegde) have any advantages, then see it as me being creative :) i just don't know how to change the 'standard' setting :p
 
Monarch setting ... let me check ... oh that ... don't worry ... i've played that much with the WB that they doesn't have any of the advantages ... if they (against my knowlegde) have any advantages, then see it as me being creative :) i just don't know how to change the 'standard' setting :p

You can tell in the text-edit version of WB. Also, did you set maxturns=0 / speed=0 and such in there? Otherwise this won't work for other speeds.

I will check all this as soon as I can...

Edit: Ah, one more thing. His name is spelled "RaGnar" ;).
 
You can tell in the text-edit version of WB. Also, did you set maxturns=0 / speed=0 and such in there? Otherwise this won't work for other speeds.

I will check all this as soon as I can...

i did, i did ... theres no problems anywhere, expect me not knowing how to change the 'strandard' starting level to another ... in game everything which makes it other than noble have been edited out (or been creative with :D)
 
First round, monarch/epic, to 235 AD:


Spoiler :


Lucky huts, 3 free techs: archery, wheel and hbr.

techs: mining - archery and wheel (huts) - masonry - bw - sailing - ah - mysticism - agri - pottery - iw - mc - writing - alpha - currency - col - math (Pericles) - polytheism (Charles) - researching cs


4000 - Settle in place, missing the wheat. Oh well, enough food anyway.

3150 - 55 gold hut.

3875 - Archery from hut.

3825 - And wheel from hut. Almost restarted at this point but hey, huts are there for a reason and the AIs get free techs as well. And we start with a scout, after all.

3775 - 58 gold hut.

2725 - Free scout from another hut.

2625 - First AI is Montezuma, with a Workboat from the E.

2100 - Wtf Taoism founded far away? Ok, choose religions on.

2375 - GW done. I build it in 90% of my games. Earlier than usual this time, I'm not used to large maps:



1975 - Uppsala. Gems and gold with corn to work them? Seems too good to be true:



1300 - Looks like the majority of our cities will be coastal, and I could even settle those SE islands after this:



1275 - Meet Charles and Pericles.

1000 - Next AI is Vicky.

925 - Haitabu. Good prod city with 3 food tiles and lots of hills:



Same turn my first GM jumps on a galley, out to get some cash. 2 galleys actually, I don't want to lose a GM to stupid barbs.

320 - Birka. Not a good city by any stretch of imagination, but it fills this side of the mountains. Future cities will go over the mountains:



185 - GM at Athens:



155 - Axeman pops hostiles from a defended hut.

95 - And gets HBR from another defended hut.

65 - I find Hammurabi far to the NW.

40 AD - Last AI of this part is Hatshepsut.

100 AD - Detour to MC to build this:



145 - And finally a decent commerce city:



Empire at 235 AD:





Tech board is very good and I'll be running at 100% science for a long time, with the cash from that GM:





 
I'm quite happy with my progress so far - but I have questions!

Spoiler :

Settled in place - 2 fish and sheep.
Workboat - scout - worker
Tech: Mining - BW (for chopping) AH

Scouts popped lots of huts - gold, gold, gold, gold.
3725BC Buddism FIDL
3625BC Judaism FIDL
Scout pops more gold
3350BC Slavery
3100BC - Scout pops scout - Meet Charlemagne

Worker done - AH Done
Start Warrior and Mysticism
Scout pops warrior - warrior attacks panther - promoted medic 1
Mysticism - Sailing
start settler
warrior sees lion - decimates it - medic 2 - send him home
2650BC Babylonians
2550BC Charlemagne - Slavery

Sailing - Archery - Wheel
2400BC Uppsala Founded - Workboat
2350 BC Islam FIDL

2225BC Stonehenge done - Settler 2 started

Agriculture - IW (no copper within settling distance + Jungle to the NE)

2075BC Greeks (Peri)
1850BC Haithabu founded
1700BC Mongols AND Aztecs (Judaism)

IW - Pottery - Writing - Alphabet
1075BC Start GLH

1000BC Babylon - Slavery.

Overview of my cities


Overview of the area and possible locations.




My questions - can someone comment on my possible city sites and maybe give me an idea of other locations. There isn't a lot of freshwater...

I'm quite glad I'm on a peninsular - If I get the blocking city up quickly I should deter Charlemagne from moving in!

 
Gotta go for a quick win on this one, or I'll never get to finish it at all because of the size! It will slow my comp down so much in the later game...

BUT I really wanna try tectonics again, I've only done it a couple of times, and one of them was a previous NC. Guess I gotta learn to start building those darn windmills....
 
Part II, monarch/epic, 235 - 1300:


Spoiler :

I don't think I'll finish this came. My PC is slowing down already. Too bad, I think this game has great potential for many different strategies and I'm doing well.

techs: mono (Vicky) - monarchy, priesthood and meditation (Hatshepsut) - cs - philo - paper - construction (Pericles) - machinery - calendar (Hammu) - feudalism (Hat) - edu - theo (Vicky) - eng and aesth (Pericles) - lib + nat - compass - optics - literature (Hat) - guilds - Music (Hamm) - banking

415 - Jelling, garbage city. But I want a couple more cities on this side of the mountains or Charlie will get too big:



1140 - And Roskilde, another mediocre city. I didn't settle aggressively this chunk of land. It's all garbage really. Even that 4 gold spot is too low on food:



1200 - Montezuma's land, on the other hand, looks good, especially with the extra trade routes from the GLH. What to do if our land is mediocre and their land is better? Viking way, baby, longships and berserkers:



DoW and Xochicalco is captured.

1210 - Calixtlahuaca captured.

1230 - I win Lib. I should start delaying it to get better stuff like steel. The most advanced AIs at this point still don't have edu and some others don't even have paper or philo:



Same turn, Teotihuacan is captured.

1250 - 2rd GM is born. The second was still sleeping in Nidaros. Now I send one to Athens and the second will found Sushi, but I'll probably get that free one from Economics as well.

1295 - Met Pacal and surprise, he's at war with Montezuma.

1300 - Tenochtitlan captured:



And I take a break to replace some berserkers:



Same turn, my GM arrives in Athen:



Overview of the empire.
Core:



Northern barrens. Charlie is big, but I don't think all those hill cities will give him much of a benefit:



Northeast. Bjorgvin has good commerce potential, but needs a couple workshops:



New cities. I think I'll build the Moais in Calixtlahuaca:



Montezuma was kind enough to give me the map of his last cities. Yes, that's Pacal's capital in the NE corner. I hope Pacal doesn't beat me there so I can capture it for myself:



Tech board:



Didn't met all the rivals yet, but I can see some interesting things from the maps. There is a huge mongolian empire behind Hammurabi, followed by Vicky and a still unknown small american empire:



This map is incomplete, but Shaka has taken a big chunk of Justinian for himself:



And this is what I know about the land behind Montezuma:



Not sure about the circumnavigation bonus. I think I should have got it by now, but maybe I missed the message of a distant civ getting it.
If my PC can handle it, I think I'll keep attacking the small backward civs like Pacal, Vicky and the americans with my berserkers.









 
RAGNAR!!!! :woohoo:

I've got to play this one! Signing in for Nordic domination! :lol:

Maybe weekend until it happens, but this is a must play.
 
Emperor/Normal to 1 AD

Spoiler :
Starting build was a work boat - i like to go worker first and chop out a work boat if i start with mining (go BW first) - but we don't here so work boat it was. Popped sailing from that first hut which was nice. Went hunting/archery after AH since i saw no horse or copper anywhere. My warriors had no luck vs barbs so couldn't scout much. Put 3rd city up north to get gold/gems online quick - whipped a monument ASAP there. Here's what things looked like early.



Didn't go for TGL really early even though i popped sailing right away - figured i had time and was right. Got that in at 925 BC.



Decided to go for the Oracle late also (seeing as only 1 AI had priesthood i thought i had a chance) Got metal casting when that was done and will have the colossus soon no problem since no one else has MC. If you look close you can see some gems by Uppsala. They appeared there very early (maybe around 800BC) and have boosted research for me. They also allowed me to get the happiness a bunch of turns before the other gems could be hooked up - so that also helped.

There is a lot of land to settle (mostly hills though). Not sure if i like playing on a large map. I could run a settler up to the NW and try to block Charley but i might just let him go ahead and settle some of that. I don't need that many cities. Way ahead on tech - not feeling like an emperor game at all. Sure is nice getting free gems/sailing and no one starting with archery... Here is my land at 1 AD and the techs.



 
I checked the WB. All is in order except handicap = for the human. I'm not sure if this will slightly raise the tech costs and such as per standard monarch rules. If anyone's worried about that, just go into the WB file and find/replace "handicap=" out.
 
Monarch Epic to 715 AD - techs from huts completely change the difficulty level.

Spoiler :


No reason to do anything other than settle in place it seems. Start on a workboat first and start exploring. GLH is an obvious choice on this map, so I start teching sailing first rather than the usual AH/BW routes. Figure I’ll build my lighthouse while teching down mining/BW. Slightly risky if I don’t get copper, but I’ll take the chance. On early scouting, I see that production won’t be a problem on this map. A stellar city site to the north with corn, gems and gold, will be claiming that soon.

Scout pops this:



That convinces me I can take the big risk by not teching a military path early. Turn 14, Islam is founded, so either we have that weird barb nation on this, or choose religions is on. Always has to be a twist in this series now, doesn’t there. Hut luck is out of hand:




Gold, a map, pottery, the wheel and a second scout. Ridiculous. Tech through BW and no copper. Take a quick stop on masonry even though I know I’m pushing it with barbs a bit, but want to start GLH soon. First meeting:



I’m tired of protective civs – that’s all I seem to have in my games these days. He’s clearly pretty far away though, so no matter. Find another hut, and:



Now it’s 3 techs from huts – this is insane luck. Of course, no horses anywhere either, so I need to tech archery. Better be iron somewhere. Uppsala goes here:



That's a ridiculously good site - 2 free happiness plus corn. Yay – GLH.



Time for workers and settlers. Need to settle islands as well as mainland to really maximize GLH. When I first explored the water, I thought I could put island cities everywhere to really maximize the effect of GLH, but in the early game, I was only able to get two island cities. I decide to align myself with Christian Charlie, as he appears to be closest to me, and I upset Kublai and Hammy in the process. City 4 goes here – love that overseas trade.



Going to try to abuse the GLH as best I can on this map. Time to start beelining colossus too. Unfortunately Kublai was clearly beelining metal casting, so I think he might beat me to it. We’ll see. First great person, a merchant shows up – I settle him in Nidaros for gold. And this:



Sorry Kublai – beat you to it. Pretty much unfair now. Colossus and GLH and islands with a perfect civ to exploit islands. Not to mention three techs from huts. So basically, I spent the next 50 or so turns building workers, settlers, and a few military units, to rex all over the place. Here I am, 16 turns from lib, in 715 AD, with 12 cities, and in the black at 60% research (I'm only about 50-50 on courthouses, too.



I’ve also blocked a few more decent sites, and have a barb city I’m getting set to build a force to take. Military is weak right now, but the only one close to me on land is Charlie, and he’s friendly. There are a lot of Buddhists while only me and Charlie are Christian, but we’re the two biggest so as long as no one dogpiles either of us, should be pretty easy. I figure after lib I’ll start building up military and figuring how to win. Monty appears to have gotten a brutal starting spot, because he’s way behind.

Tech situation is out of hand. Only Charlie is really hanging anywhere near me, and mine is about to pick up even more since I’ve done some mass whipping in a bunch of cities to get trading posts and granaries down. I played a few more turns and messed with scientists a bit so I'm now 7 turns from lib when I cut off. Charlie is the only one with philosophy (because I traded to him), and no one has paper yet. No one even has the edge on the lower half of the tech tree, as even Charlie, who's the only one close to me in tech, has only 2-3 lower half techs on me.

I’m debating whether or not to continue this one, because honestly, I think I could pick steel, rifling, or maybe even further up the tech tree as my free lib tech. It’s feeling like a noble game with the three free techs, GLH and Colossus. I just now switched to caste to start running specialists and start growing everything. No one can even invade me without going through my Christian buddy Charlie who’s friendly with me. I’ve got a bunch more land I can settle (albeit very hilly) and I can also take the nicely placed barb city. Taking over the world should be a snap the rest of the way. I did make one pretty big tactical mistake by not teching compass earlier – harbors could have been built a lot earlier for more trade route abuse.

I probably should get astronomy soon, even if it obsoletes colossus, because I could build some galleons to really settle even more coastal cities. Wonder how long I should wait to tech corporation with all the trade route abuse from GLH.
 
Count me in! I'm wearing my Opera Lady Viking hat right now! :woohoo:
 
Anomander Rake:

Spoiler :

Blocking city is good, but too far away, imo. You are looking at some 15 tiles of hills-forests to get there. Probably Charles will expand there pretty quickly, and at that point you'll have to turn around and probably settle the corn/fish/horse spot. Legendary waste of turns and at that point you are pretty much forced to settle all the barrens or you'll end with a city completely surrounded by Charles' culture.

Yes, you can try, but I would settle a couple cities on that green NE peninsula and a couple more cities right behind the mountains.

edit: if you want some extra early cities, get those nice SE islands before Montezuma.
 
Anomander:

Spoiler :


I also had marked that site as a possible block. I scouted it very early b/c I popped an extra scout from a hut. However, I figured it wasn't blocking the best land in the world. There are some very nice sites up there I prioritized instead, the NE peninsula as ai shizuka mentioned, but there's also a good hill site with several gold and some wheat that can pay for itself and then some at size 5-6. Try also the southwest side of that peninsula, as there's 1-2 good sites there.

If you get GLH and/or colossus, those coastal sites are great - I got both and just tried to settle everywhere on the coast I could. Barbs also ended up blocking the site you mention in my game, so if Charley doesn't take it, I may head up to it at some point.

 
Thanks for the feedback
Spoiler :

I restarted with the WB edit to make it default Noble.

I am too damn slow at getting cities out and researching. Also making silly mistakes on tech choices.

Mananaged to get three religions and the went to the one the Charlie was putting about.

I am going to restart for a 3rd time and try to spread out more quickly - Charlie got through the gap with a sudden surge of 3 settlers in 4 moves he had 3 new towns in my neck of the woods and I only got 8 up in total.

AR
 
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