Deity Gliese #5, Willem Van Oranje

Round 1, 4000 BC - 2680 BC (33 turns).
Round 2, 2680 BC - 1240 BC (36 turns).
Round 3, 1240 BC - _580 AD (70 turns).
Round 4, _580 AD - _940 AD (18 turns).
Round 5, _940 AD - 1400 AD (43 turns).
Round 6, 1400 AD - 1720 AD (54 turns).

After the short Wang round (thanks paradigmshifter ) I decided to start up a new game right away, this time with a truly powerful leader, Willem Van Oranje of the Netherlands.
I basically picked the same map settings as last time, except I left it at the default 70% water this time.



As always I invite any kind of comments, discussion advice or questions as long as you refrain from posting spoilers that go beyond the timeframe of my own game-posts.

Willem is Creative and Financial and starts with Agriculture and Fishing, here is the start:



Once again no regenerates, another great start right away. The obvious move here is to move 1S I think for the silver - even though that costs me the fresh water bonus - and build a WB while teching mining.
The warrior moved 1NW in anticipation of popping the visible hut. The start is very food and hammer rich (and commerce thanks to financial and silver). It doesn't look like a good cottage capital though. The marble opens up some interesting possibilities.

Let's hope this one goes better. Appreciated the Wang game anyway, deity games are always enjoyable.

Let's hope for a longer Willy rather than the short Wang eh?

ParadigmShifter said:

Let's hope for a longer Willy rather than the short Wang eh?

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LOL you're on a roll today.

It's because I am in a good mood because of the football (Everton 1 Liverpool 0 for those who don't know).

Good luck with your game, I thought it was all tundra start but that's just Blue Marble being darker than normal I believe.

This looks like a nice super science capital with plenty of food and commerce boost tiles.

I think settle 1S is better for this openning. Also suggest get Masonary after Archery (if no metal). a 4 3 tile (Marble) is a great early tile. With accelerated tech rate with silver/seafood/Marble, you could blaze through the Oracle techs and get Oracle and sling MC, which almost garantees you The Colloses. Good luck.

For Willem I'd play it slightly differently (being financial). I'd settle 1-2 north and save the silver for a later city (on Marathon speed I'd definitely spend 3-4 turns scouting that land to the north before settling, but harder to justify on normal)
This gives you some extra land tiles for a better Bureau capital, keeps the river for the health bonus and will provide that much needed early commerce from grassland river cottages (to make up for the lost silver)

Later on when you've blocked off some land you can send a settler down to claim a nice self sufficient silver/marble/crab (and given the map script, you've a good chance to pick up another of either iron, copper or silver down there if you settle next to that silver.

I typed a heap of other stuff but deleted it because it's probably not relevant until we see more of the map.

Can you share a view of the scouted land before settling your next city =)


recap: 1 vote for settling one north (you lose zero resources and may gain one), also leaves you with only 1 non seafood ocean square. Very impressive for a coastal start.

900BC

Dougal: While I appreciate you using a spoiler, please don't post ahead of my own rounds as it will influence discussions with other readers even if they try to avoid it. Posting rounds after I've reached the same date is fine, even encouraged, thanks.

Good luck - looks like an interesting start with the marble and silver. Hopefully it goes better than the last one. It's great to see games played on deity - it's such an uphill battle it's very impressive to see it played out.

Is the tile 2N of the settler water? Maybe a lake? I'm with ABigCivFan on settling 1S. Also, don't forget you can mine the hillside marble early on.

GL!

2 marbles in the same bfc?! this script is dumb...

I'd move 1s, obviously...

Round 1, 4000 BC - 2680 BC (33 turns):

3960: I decided to move the settler 1S. Being riverside and having a few more riverside cottage tiles to work might be nice enough but that's a long way off yet and it just can't compete with having silver in the bfc imo. I started on a WB and Mining to take care of food then production/commerce.

3880: The warrior popped the hut to the north and..



Got a nice result.

3680: I paused here to make an important decision. So let's go into some micro for fun.



With no 3-food tile in the bfc the best approach was to work a 3-hammer tile. After 7 turns of this I was at 28/30 on the WB. Now I had to decide if I wanted to work a crab or the fish first. The reason for this is that if I want to work a crab, then I should switch production to a grassland forest tile here to get 2 food in the bin and exactly 30/30 hammers on the WB in order to shave a turn off growth to get to size 2.
With 2/22 in the bin and getting +4 food a turn, I get growth in 5 turns instead of 6 this way.
If I want to work the fish however, I should keep working the marble and put production at 32/30. The 2 extra hammers are needed here in order to shave a turn off my next build, a worker, since one turn is wasted in hooking up the fish.
Workers cost 60, with the regular 4 production for a turn followed by 6 a turn from the fish, I'd end at 58/60 after 10 turns, so the 2 overflow is crucial. Working the crab I get 5 production a turn which will always result in a 12 turn wait for my worker.
Normally I'd go for the crab here with a financial civ since it gives +1 production, +3 commerce + (2 commerce -1 food /turn). Since I popped Sailing however and seeing the lay of the land I decided that I might decide to go for the GLH on this map, in which case production, not commerce, is going to be the crucial factor.
The fact that I lose commerce by going for the fish is somewhat mitigated by getting the silver mine up and running 2 turns earlier (exactly timed with growth to size 2) for +14 commerce, and then later on another 4 commerce from growing again 4 turns earlier to size 3 than if I'd worked a crab, and so on.
Overall the net loss of commerce fluctuates somewhere between 25-35. This is offset by gaining 2 worker turns and a faster growth rate overall which all serves to enhance the production.
Oh well, sidetracked a bit there so let's get on with it.

3640: WB finishes, start on worker, move WB to fish.

3600: Mining -> BW. An obvious choice here, there's a slight chance I'll pop it on a hill to the south, but more importantly I want to start chopping asap. It's looking more and more like I'll need some sort of wonder-boost for the economy, GLH? Colossus?



3240: Worker finishes, he moves to mine the silver as I start on another WB.

3200: Hindu FIDL.

3120: Warrior proceeds to explore west along the icy coast and pops a hut for 44 gold.

3000: BW -> Hunting. No copper in sight so I need archers for defense.

2840: Hunting -> Archery.

2760: 2nd WB finishes, I start on a warrior to use for garisson as I wait for archery to finish.

2680: Archery finishes. I put research on Masonry for the time being but decided to end round 1 here for some discussion. The capital has awesome land but beyond that, not so much as you can see. I switched build to an archer to not waste production from excessive overflow on the warrior after a chop. Indeed another silver to the south, I might have to put in a junk city to work it, with GLH it would at least put out 13 commerce /turn pre currency given that I can get +2 commerce routes.



I did get one bit of important information on this last turn of the round though, I'm not isolated.



My warrior is healing on the silver after killing a barb unit but I've not fought with the barb unit to the left.

So what's next? There's basically only one decent spot to settle aside from the food resources along the coast to the west and that's directly to the north of the capital. There's at least a small island to the northwest.
Should I go for the GLH here? What about an Oracle sling for Colossus as ABigCivfan suggested? I'd have to be very lucky to get both of them so I think I have to choose between them.
As you can see there's some land along the edge of the map that is separated from my landmass by a couple of ice tiles, does that count as a separate landmass in regards to trade routes or would a city on the other side count as an internal trade route?
With at least once civ to the west, that's another possible source of +2 trade routes (unless it's Tokugawa).
Does the Colossus give 3 commerce -ocean tiles with a financial civ or do they only give 2? 4 commerce for coastal tiles are a sweet deal in any case.
Should I skip wonders altogether and do something else, thoughts?

SnowlyWhite said:

2 marbles in the same bfc?! this script is dumb...

I'd move 1s, obviously...

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Well technically it's not in the bfc without moving 1S.
Not a great tile being on the ice but it's a valuable resource in terms of trade at least.

hmm ... a city 1s of the westen sheep would be decent, taking note of the rest of the area, fish, crab and sheep with some forests to fuel some small production ... if the game actually gets anywhere that is a decent bet on a GP Farm with National park (i'm counting 5 tundra forests)

Next city should be 1SE from the sheep so it can use one of the crabs in your capital. 2 food resources then and enough hills to produce. The capital with 3 sea food resources can still work the silver and the 2 marble sites and be a production monster. If you can save the forests for the national park then this capital is going to be sick.

Oracle is a wonder you have a good shot at with this production and marble. Colussus is nice then. I say go for this one.

This is going to be a great game when you get to the dikes. Other then that strange layout with grassland corn surrounded by ice :s

Sian said:

hmm ... a city 1s of the westen sheep would be decent, taking note of the rest of the area, fish, crab and sheep with some forests to fuel some small production ... if the game actually gets anywhere that is a decent bet on a GP Farm with National park (i'm counting 5 tundra forests)

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Actually all of the forests around the northern sheep is grassland, I think you're thrown off by the blue marble look. The closest tundra forest is the one 3W of the capital. Also compare the tundra hill 4E1S of capital with the forrested grassland hills around the capital.

Killroyan said:

Next city should be 1SE from the sheep so it can use one of the crabs in your capital. 2 food resources then and enough hills to produce. The capital with 3 sea food resources can still work the silver and the 2 marble sites and be a production monster. If you can save the forests for the national park then this capital is going to be sick.

Oracle is a wonder you have a good shot at with this production and marble. Colussus is nice then. I say go for this one.

This is going to be a great game when you get to the dikes. Other then that strange layout with grassland corn surrounded by ice :s

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So you'd prefer Oracle+Colossus to GLH here? I don't think I can afford to save forests, the capital is going to have to do a majority of the production for this one and wonders especially are costly. Also I have no less than 10 hills in the bfc besides the ice marble, most of them grassland. In spite of this, the city has only a 1 food deficit at size 20. There's only two non-hill non-sea tiles beside the ice marble, so I'll want lots of mines.
I was also thinking 1SE of sheep to get the maximum amount of land up there without wasting grassland hills. I can hope for some sea resource close to the island to the NW to cover the rest of the grassland tiles.
As for the corn, that's because this is a tectonic map, one of the features I really like in fact. It makes icy areas like this more habitable by mixing in grasslands.

70% water is very little land, good luck...

talking about the westen sheep (2n8w of capital), not the northen sheep, its the sheep you can see on your screenshot with your warrior ... i have blue marble myself

Well technically it's not in the bfc without moving 1S.
Not a great tile being on the ice but it's a valuable resource in terms of trade at least.

Click to expand...

no, what I meant is that it gives you monopoly on marble with 2nd border pop; usually, it's 3 marble on the whole map... you get 2. I mean, I never saw getting... 2 bronzes clustered together, or 2 iron and those are much more common then marble/stone.

Regarding the map - it seems like an OCC without industrious or stone, so without any chance for the mids... I'd try both oracle&glh and nab aest from oracle to keep wonderspamming, but still... settled gp without rep. are rather meh leaving aside that glh+oracle at deity is heretic with willie

Collossus doesn't tell me anything; or more like parth/glib seems better since caste on this map is meh(you have a ton of food, true, but lack prod. outside 2 cities and you ain't spiritual or philo either - sure, creative is nice). On the other hand, without triremes, barb. galleys will be a pain.

only thing I know for certain is I'd block asap on between corn and silver if your neighbor is pretty far or 1w of silver if he's close.

tough map, but then I've always hated things with much water. Problem is, being tectonics and not arhipelago is that you ain't guaranteed the others having similar crappy lands.