Tell us why you rarely or never Submit GOTMs

If you have rarely, or never, posted a GOTM result in the last 12 months, please respond here and tell us what you would like to see to increase your interest.

Can you edit this title to be "Tell us why you are not ... "?

More likely to attract your target audience, I think.

dV

Moderator Action: There was no need for two separate threads. I have consolidated them both under one title, along the lines you suggest.

I only play on historical Earthmaps or fantasy/sci-fi maps (like Ffh II, Star Trek, Planetfall, Babylon 5...)

I already answered in the strategic subforum, don't count it twice.

Main reason is limited gaming time + playing HoF games = no time left for GotMs.

lesser reason would be that once you miss a game, you're going down in the charts quite soon, and after a while it makes no sense (from a ranking point of view) to submit.

What he said. (Good to know, BTW. Also, apart from playing, I mod as well, leaving still less time.)

Currently: because the HOF mod won't recognize my administrator rights.

But I rarely finish a game anyway, because it takes too long to do it right.

I played all of the 15 BotMs but submitted only 3 I think so far (maybe even only two).

Mostly because of loosing interesting in finishing these games after checking my progress compared to the spoilers posted by the "big guns".

Yet could still submit a loss, right ? well, I guess that is poor lazyness, and not wanting to admit how poor of a player I am ....

My interest in actually finishing games ebbs and flows every few months. I still generally download most games and play 1 session, I just don't load it after that.

I play every BotM game, but due to hardware problems I have missed all games this year. If the difficulty doesn't get me, I tend to lose interest when I approach the industrial technologies; usually when my Civ gets very large.

Looking at my record, I have submitted only 5-6 games since July 2007, so I may qualify as one of this number.

Combination of reasons:

1. I have too little time and/or interest to sustain a full game every month. That will probably not change too much no matter what system is adopted, except if the games are made smaller/faster I may play more often (i.e. things like huge, always war, epic/marathon kind of turn me off)
2. Because of limited playing described above as well as personal interst, I am only interested in playing BOTM. I was a very regular GOTM/WOTM player two years ago, but have not submitted a single game since BTS came out in July 07
3. Within BTS games, I look for games that are appealing to me because of difficulty level (and sometimes also setup). Looking at my submission record I see I played first two BTOM, mostly because I'd been out of xOTM so long waiting for the BOTM to start, but then I skipped BOTM3-5, probably because of difficulty (Noble, Prince, Monarch) then submitted 6-7 (emperor, monarch). Would have liked to play BTOM8-9 (Emperor, Immortal) but my house flooded last summer & everything else got put on hold a few months. Got back in for BTOM10 (deity) but then sat out again when difficulty cycle restarted (warlord, noble, prince, monarch) I played and finished BOTM15, but (as AlanH knows from our emails) I missed submission cutoff for it by less than an hour . I am playing (and hope/expect to submit) BOTM16.

On a layer above all this, sometimes it's just not worth the effort (don't get enough fun in return for your effort) to finish a game of Civ4. Indeed, at least a couple the games I did submit, I only completed probably because I just did little more than hit the submit button the last X turns to get to the victory condition. But that tedium's maybe somewhat my own fault because of how I play, lack of strategic focus in middle game, all that. But I think it's also the game's fault -- even with the improvements (IMO) to BTS in the late game, Civ4 is a game that's a lot funner to play before ~500AD than after. I bet this is why a lot of people don't submit, they just abandon around that point since it's not as exciting anymore. I think I may have done that with a few BOTM games I did not submit, I played but did not finish. And that's probably why I tend to finish & submit the >= Emperor games, because these are often still somewhat in doubt (exciting, tension filled, challenging) to play in the middle & sometimes late game, for the style I play & my ability. In fact, before I started playing xOTM, I think I only completely finished a few games, and since starting I don't think I've ever finished a non-xOTM game. So even though I finish so few, still probably > 90% of all the games I've ever played through to the end are xOTM.

Compounding my lack of interest in playing many xOTM much past 500AD, since the point of an XOTM is to compare what you do to others & learn from it, most of the ability to compare is lost after 500ad due to divergent play/outcome in early game & hence the whole point of xOTM is lost in late game play. Me personally, I get a lot more out of reading and posting to the first spoilers, than I do from actually finishing the game, getting ranked/awards, etc.

I mention this last part only because, if there are others like me, it may just be systemic that there will only be an occasional game that stays fun long enough to merit finishing, and what kind of game that is will vary for each individual, so it may be impossible to get regular submissions from players like me, no matter what you do.

In other words, maybe you are worrying too much about something you can't do much about and isn't as broken as it might first appear I appreciate that you guys are looking for ways to spice it up, and maybe you can, but if not, I hope you get from my comments about the pre-500ad play & the first spoilers that I get value and enjoyment out of the current BOTM regime even if I don't actually finish and submit games. So, if there are others like me, maybe participation isn't as bad as you think! Maybe you guys should even do YAP (yet another poll) to ask people who don't submit if they still get value out of xOTM just from starting & reading first spoilers to compare their game ...

I play most G/W/BOTMs, but usually don't finish them. The main two reasons are lack of time and my decision that my gameplay wasn't good enough to compete with the top games, so I go on to the next available OTM. It shouldn't be taken as a criticism or a request for a change in teh system. The real problem is that I'm a very slow player. You guys can't change anything to fix that.

Personally, I'm satisfied with the mix fo difficulty and variety that's now occurring.

LowtherCastle said:

I play most G/W/BOTMs, but usually don't finish them. The main two reasons are lack of time and my decision that my gameplay wasn't good enough to compete with the top games, so I go on to the next available OTM. It shouldn't be taken as a criticism or a request for a change in teh system. The real problem is that I'm a very slow player. You guys can't change anything to fix that.

Personally, I'm satisfied with the mix fo difficulty and variety that's now occurring.

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As usual, someone coherent like lowthercastle says the essence of what I was trying to say, but in 1/10th the words

I don't have time to play all the games, especially at the higher levels. And I see little point in submitting an incomplete game.
I'm no that interested in global ranking, cos I know I'll never submit all the games, even just all the BOTMs. So, knowing that there's not a huge incentive to put in the time to get a game finished, especially when it's going to be a loss. It also seems pointless submitting a half played game for the same reasons.
I love the GotMs, and it's probably the only civ games I play (other than the odd SG) but I doubt there's much you can do to increase the submission ratio, especailly from players like me.

I consider myself a GOTM player, I've kept an eye on the forum for a couple of years. Yet I've submitted just one game.

It's a dilemma really. I love gold medals. But I despise score-milking. So I only play the hardest games, i.e. deity or high level AW. I waited for 1 1/2 years. Then last summer, while I was on vacation, all three deity games got clumped together. I was back in time for the last one only.

Unconquered Sun said:

I consider myself a GOTM player, I've kept an eye on the forum for a couple of years. Yet I've submitted just one game.

It's a dilemma really. I love gold medals. But I despise score-milking. So I only play the hardest games, i.e. deity or high level AW. I waited for 1 1/2 years. Then last summer, while I was on vacation, all three deity games got clumped together. I was back in time for the last one only.

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But what a game it was. BOTM10, right? Not coincidentally my last submitted game too. I got a lot out of looking at your game & reading your posts in the spoilers US (thanks again!)

I understand US's POV, and therefor why he's only submitted one. But speaking as someone who sees the point of xOTM as learning new strategies & approaches and comparing my games against the best -- if you want to worry about getting more BOTM submissions, don't worry about getting them from mid-level players like me, or even lower level players. Worry about getting more from players like Unconquered Sun. Get more participation & submissions from players like him, and the other players will come.

Or at least they should, if they are at all interested in learning & improving. Even if a player is not good enough to win at deity, I think they still could improve a lot by playing that far enough to lose, then reading an account from someone like US to learn more effective approaches. Works for me, anyway ...

ngraner42 said:

If you have rarely, or never, posted a GOTM result in the last 12 months, please respond here and tell us what you would like to see to increase your interest.

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Frankly because I'm rank, awful rubbish and while I can usually pox a win on Monarch or below, it's not a sure thing. I get lazy, lose focus and then get dogpiled because my diplomacy was until recently quite useless. BOTM 16 is a case in point.

Moderator Action: Spoiler info deleted

Needless to say I felt like a right git after all of that with no-one to blame but myself.

Such is life

Moderator Action: Please don't discuss your progress, discoveries or results for a current xOTM outside the spoiler threads

Sorry, about that. Can we call that schoolboy error #3?

I've only just recently started to have the patience to finish any Civ games so my personal experience may not be particularly relevant.

I am very, very slow to learn to manage Noble, so most of the xOTMs are too tough for me to be fun even as far as 500 AD, so I rarely start unless they're low difficulty. I know I could submit retired games but that always seemed pointless: at best just another announcement about how weak a player I am, which I constantly tell people anyway On the other hand, I got a lot farther in GOTM40 than I expected for a Prince game and didn't mind submiting.

Is there a point to submitting early retirement games? I suppose if it convinces people that occasional Warlord- or Noble-level games are worth running as an xOTM I might do it more often.

I don't think any of this is reason to change the current xOTM setup, though. Maybe the two-tier format would help, but that would just mean an increased probability of my submitting a few more games, not a guarantee.

It would be interesting to compare the number of times a start save is downloaded with the number of submitted games. Is the problem in lack of interest in BOTM games (not enough downloads) or actual completion of the games?

LowtherCastle said:

I play most G/W/BOTMs, but usually don't finish them. The main two reasons are lack of time and my decision that my gameplay wasn't good enough to compete with the top games, so I go on to the next available OTM. It shouldn't be taken as a criticism or a request for a change in teh system. The real problem is that I'm a very slow player. You guys can't change anything to fix that.

Personally, I'm satisfied with the mix fo difficulty and variety that's now occurring.

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Same here, I also find the comments in the spoiler threads from players interesting and useful, especially comments on what they did and why from the more experienced players.

I don't submit often but still enjoy playing the BOTM to learn things. (I don't bother with G/W OTMs because I find changing between versions confusing, due to changed effects from wonders and unit stats etc).

Also Gwyddeligs response also applies to me:

Frankly because I'm rank, awful rubbish and while I can usually pox a win on Monarch or below, it's not a sure thing. I get lazy, lose focus and then get dogpiled because my diplomacy was until recently quite useless. BOTM 16 is a case in point.

Moderator Action: Spoiler info deleted

Needless to say I felt like a right git after all of that with no-one to blame but myself.

Click to expand...

On games above Monarch If I don't get trounced from the start, I end up in the middle of the score pack and can't be bothered finishing the game as I don't think I have a high chance of winning.

OR I do very well early mid game, get complacent then really mess up later (usually by ignoring an AI civ going for Culture win/or space race). Only to realise I needed to do something about the threat they pose about 5 turns too ago

Unconquered Sun said:

I despise score-milking.

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Why don't you play for fast finish awards then?