Origins of Lizardmen and Centaurs?

Lord Haldane · Apr 2, 2009

How did these two races come to be? I vaguely recall reading somewhere in the encyclopaedia that Lizardmen pre-date the Fall of Bhall and so must have arisen through some other means, but I actually have not the slightest clue as to how the Centaurs were created. The Aifons and Elves are said to have been men shaped by the favour and presence of their god, and the origins of Dwarves are altogether rather likely to be the same regardless of their creation myth, so what process could give rise to other such species?

Darksaber1 · Apr 2, 2009

Centaur, Lamia and lizardmen were all created by mages during the Age of Magic.

Kael · Apr 2, 2009

Darksaber1 said:
Centaur, Lamia and lizardmen were all created by mages during the Age of Magic.

He is correct. As well as Griffons, Chimera, and many other duct taped together creatures.

Seon · Apr 2, 2009

Maybe Duck was also duct-taped together during that age

by the way where did the Hill giant came from?

Kael · Apr 2, 2009

I dont know about hill giants. Real giants were created during the godswar. Hill giants are either extremely pathedic versions of those creatures, devolved down through many generations or created by mages during the age of magic in an attempt to mimic the gods and form their own war machines.

It sounds more likely to me that its the second case and they arent "true" giants.

Lord Haldane · Apr 2, 2009

Intriguing! Were the Lizardmen and Centaurs created wholesale by the mages or men magically altered? In either case, do they have souls?

Kael · Apr 2, 2009

Lord Haldane said:
Intriguing! Were the Lizardmen and Centaurs created wholesale by the mages or men magically altered? In either case, do they have souls?

Men were altered, they have souls and can perform magic. They are technically still children of Nemed.

MagisterCultuum · Apr 2, 2009

So, would these have been created with Life magic, Body magic, Creation Magic, or some combination of the former?

Might Hill Giants have any human ancestry?

thomas.berubeg · Apr 2, 2009

I actually thought that perhapes they were humans adopted by Camulos, who, over time were changed by him into Violent, Brutal things.

WarKirby · Apr 7, 2009

so the answer is.... a wizard did it ?

Giga-Gigan · Apr 7, 2009

Probably multiple wizards, who would want to make lizardmen anyways? I mean I love them, but who would engineer a species of scaly people? Was someone trying to farm swamps or something? Maybe found a swamp society? Why?

Kael · Apr 7, 2009

During the age of magic Patria was controlled by a mageocracy of powerful archmages. Many, especially Kezef, were fond of trying to create their own bestial army, guardians and servants. This was of particular interest during the Patrian civil war, but it started well before that.

Giga-Gigan · Apr 7, 2009

Hmm... I guess the specifics are lost, but I guess some mage made the lizard-people, lizard-people for aesthetic reasons. Are they better minions for because they are cold blooded? (Are they even cold blooded?) Just how does a magician go about gene splicing?

Kael · Apr 7, 2009

Giga-Gigan said:
Hmm... I guess the specifics are lost, but I guess some mage made the lizard-people, lizard-people for aesthetic reasons. Are they better minions for because they are cold blooded? (Are they even cold blooded?) Just how does a magician go about gene splicing?

There were 2 big differences between age of magic archmages and age of rebirth archmages. For the age of magic archmages were much more powerful. There is a finite amount of magic in the world and the fewer people that have it, the more powerful they are. Thats why the artifacts from the age of magic are so much mroe powerful than those created in the current age.

Secondly the dominion of life was largely untended. It was under Arawns control and, much like necromancy, his lack of oversight lead to a human bastardization of the spheres power. So mages could create life, but it was typically foul, twisted forms. Even centaurs and the good results of the experiments (though there are few examples) have worked hard through generations to become more than the bestial servants they once were.

Now that Sucellus is controlling the dominion of life the sphere is less likely to be used for corruptive purposes and this sort of activity doesn't take place.

Giga-Gigan · Apr 7, 2009

When they created their twisted lifeforms... Was it through inexperience, reflection of character, or the fact that they were taping forces that they weren't permitted to use that caused their creations to be crude bestial creations?

Guale · Apr 7, 2009

Was that lore a product of the throw out some info and let MC fill in the details method? I could swear I remember not long ago he said that was just a theory of his. (Sometimes I fear I lurk too much then I remember rule 33.)

Kael · Apr 7, 2009

Guale said:
Was that lore a product of the throw out some info and let MC fill in the details method? I could swear I remember not long ago he said that was just a theory of his. (Sometimes I fear I lurk too much then I remember rule 33.)

No, the piece that was up in the air was that of the specific species effected. We had a talk about lizardmen (were they a result of the mutations at Bhall's fall like orcs, goblins and ogres, or were they created by the Age of Magic archmages). And a talk about hill giants (were they the least of the giants used in the godswar or from the archmages as well).

But it was never questioned that archmages in the age of magic made all sorts of bizarre living creations, and thats where most of the "monster" species come from.

MagisterCultuum · Apr 8, 2009

What Kael said.

I believe the only creatures that were definitely stated as having been created by Patrian magic experiments were Griffins and Pit Beasts. I think that bringing non-living creatures to life required life magic, but in many cases (including any case where a product would be descended from Nemed and possess a divine spark) the mage was just fusing different already living creatures together and so could probably get by with using only body magic. Basically, these creatures are just Flesh Golems with the ability to reproduce.

Fenboy · Apr 8, 2009

I have a strong suspicion that Manticores were created by Os-Gabella during the Age of Magic. I guess then they were stashed in a convenient pocket dimension when Kylorin went on the rampage, until such time as when the Sheaim need them late in the Age of Rebirth.

nothing to back that up though.

Nikis-Knight · Apr 8, 2009

Flesh Golems as in different things fused without original creation, but more inteligent than most golems, and less obedient.

Manticores seem slapped together in a mad scientist sort of way, I can see that.

Basically, Patrian magical zaniness is a way to have any oddball mythological creature roaming around we want.

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