NC XXIV: Wang Kon

Sian

Emperor
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
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Hello Everyone, since TMIT doesn't have time for NC anymore (due to him restarting IC) i've argeed to take up NC and continue it instead of him

for my second NC (also did XX: Rangar as some people might remember) we're going to Asia. Wang Kon of Korea is the leader of the day. Usually when played by the AI he's a weakling which nevertheless manages to have a lot of friends, due to his Religion, and able to keep up in tech even when pitifully small.



UB is a university with an extra 10% science which is allways good for the tech race
UU is a Catapult which suffered severely from the change to siege, the Hwacha with an extra 50% versus melee.

So ... lets see on the start



There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, TheMeInTeam for hosting the series for an extended time, and all of you for playing.

The WB-save is attached (zipped, they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUG or HoF Mods), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC XXIV". This allows you to play with your favorite Mod at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Prince, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Also, it should be noted that although this is a "pre-Monarch" oriented series, you are welcome to play it at levels above Prince. However, the AIs will NOT get their full set of bonus techs (unless your host gets too creative). The main difference is Archery, which the AI normally gets for free at Monarch and above. The main effects of this are in the AIs starting units (warriors instead of archers) and it also creates a tad "slower" AI, since they now have to tech archery themselves.

Starting zip file:
 

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2 irrigated corn :drool:, river and coastal with few coast tiles and hills for good production, settle on sugar for sure.
 
Hey, I've been lurking these forums for some time now, and they already put me from prince to a somewhat shaky emperor. I decided that it is time to try one of these games out, hope to learn a lot.

Anyway, to the actual game.
I'd agree on settling on the sugar, you get some superb grassland and even some plain-hills to top it off.
Looking forward to this :)
 
Man, I have 2 NC games pending now... I'll be behind again this time. :( BTW, I don't know how to play a FIN leader anymore. Any principles for a CE or Hybrid Economy? Also, how exactly the protective wall overflow works?
 
with enough happyness this capital would proberly be able to support a Hybrid with both Cottages (grassland) and Specialists (Irrigated corn) ...

and believe it or not ... i actually removed a 3'rd corn from the tile 1s of the eastern corn to make it less overpowered :p
 
Hi, I haven't played these nc games before, but I'm going to join this round. Just played through the Hathy game at saturday, but didn't do proper update on the thread. Trying to get this one started later today.

That's going to be quite a nice capital.
 
The Noble Epic of Kon the Merciless. Chapter One (1950bc).

Spoiler :
Settled capital one east. Noted we start with mysticism so nabbed polytheism for Hinduism in 3625bc. Explored around to discover we're on a sizeable peninsula (or maybe an island) with Toku up north and Qin to the south-east blocking further exploration.
On learning BW discovered copper in third ring (would have been in BFC if I'd stayed put). Fortunately culture from holy Hinduism made it available. Bit of chopping, bit of whipping. Five axes headed north around 2200bc.
Kyoto was defended by a CG2 archer:)eek:) and a warrior with 40% defence. Fortunately it was on a plain, so for the loss of an axe and a lucky win at 27% Japan had become part of Korea in 1950bc.

Edit: What next? Maybe dotmap properly. Settle a couple more cities. Head towards maths>construction and go for axe/hwacha stack against Qin. Likely to take a few turns. Probably won't manage it before 1ad.
 
Monarch/normal, Up to 1 AD:
Spoiler :

I decided to settle on the sugar.
Met Tokugawa almost immediately and finds out he's quite close to us.
Techpath: Agriculture, fishing, BW
Build order: Worker, 2 turns on warrior before getting fishing, workboat, warrior, warrior, 1 turn on barracks, settler, Stonehenge.
Our warrior wanders around to find some huts and then his happens...

Oh well, enough of him.
After BW we revolt to slavery and find copper right next to our capitol.

Techpath: Wheel, pottery, sailing, AH
We meet Qin (what a lot of asians!)
I whip my barracks for 2 pop down to 4, and overflows into SH.
I found my second city P'yongyang in 2320BC:

should be a nice city with lots of resources. Even coastal.
Now we complete SH at 2120BC and squeeze out another settler and an Axeman.
Techpath: writing, masonry, IW
Going to see if we can pop GLH to boost our economy for ages to come.
We meet Suryavarman.
We found our 3rd city Wonsan in 1560BC.
Damn, someone beat me to GLH, I guess I'll have to do without.
Went alphabet, Metal casting. Noone seems to want to trade with me, though.
Time passes, we found our 4th and 5th cities, and we pop a Prophet in Seoul.


I decide to keep him and try to bulb Theology.
We found christianity in Pusan, nice.
We complete the collossus in Seoul at 50 BC and found our 6th city to calim some rocks.
We have Qin completely boxed in and he only ever founded 2 cities. I'm thinking trebs and capture those 2 cities.
Toku has us boxed in though, I guess that early wonder-hugging bites us back now. Anyway I think this is going to be a good game, can't wait to see what others got from it ;)
Some final screens:
The world:

Tech status:

Only competitor is Qin because of his overcottaged measely little empire.
Diplomacy:

Getting VERY nervous about Toku. I'm his worst enemy and Qin is his best friend. I'm thinking about converting to conf just to soften him up a bit.
 
STARTING LOCATION DISCUSSION​

Settling in place would be very :hammers: poor, there is a chance that there is a resource to be revealed 2W1N, but even with an early metal there the hammer count would still be low. So I am fairly certain that I will be moving the settler.

Settling on the sugar would keep a costal start, but I would lose the ability to improve the tile. Is their any benefit to settling on a grassland sugar or is it still a 2:food: 1:hammers: 1:commerce: city tile that I have to put up with stupid sugar cane poking through for the next 6000 years?

The other option as I see it is to move the warrior 1N to see the three tiles above. Then maybe settle on the plains tile 1NE. This would allow me to work the sugar and provide extra plain hills. The downside is that I would lose the costal start, but would only lose the ability to work one costal BFC tile, so no big deal. This is obviously dependant on what the warrior reveals to the north.

Would appreciate peoples thoughts on the above, and will play the first turn set and post my report this evening. Do people recommend Photobucket or Imageshack??
 
Settling on the sugar gives you an extra food in the capital (3F,1H,1C) at the expense of not plantationing it later in the game. I'd reckon extra food at the start is almost as good as an extra hammer.
 
Cheers. That is that settled then, unless there is something special to the north I will be settling on the sugar.
 
Way to step up and take the ball Sian! Glad to see the ol Nobles Club isnt going to die out. I think we have helped a LOT of players get to Monarch.

I havent played Wang in a LONG time, so I am going to have a go.
 
Settling on the sugar will put many hammers in the BFC. The techs are Mining/Myst. So, I think I will research BW while building another warrior and growing pop. Then I will whip a worker, research AG and maybe then go up a religious path to Monarchy, probably working Pottery and writing in there as well. Or, skip monarchy and work towards Const.

EDIT: Actually worker first and AG then BW might be better for growth.
 
CHECKPOINT 1 - 1000BC

Would appreciate advise on city locations. The main thing that makes me quit a game and restart is where I can't decide where to place cities.

Spoiler :
Settled 1E on sugar. Opening techs were Agriculture, Fishing, Bronze Working, The Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Iron Working, Mathematics. I have founded 3 cities to the East aggressively at Qin who is now pressurising my uncultured cities with his Judaism Holy City. I am gearing up for a war with Qin, he has copper also, but I am planning to take that out with a spy.

One question (i've never used a spy), if I send a spy into Qin's land first to destroy the copper mine, is it unlikely that he will send a worked out to repair given me declaring war on him. Any wars I have taken part in, the AI always, always, always pulls all workers into the sanctuary of a city.

As said above I would appreciate peoples view on city locations.
 

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Noble / Normal 350BC:
Spoiler :
I settled on sugar and started first building warrior and researching BW. First I met Toku 3360BC and next Qin Shi 2760BC.

While exploring and researching I finished my first settler and built Pyongyang east from Seoul to claim sugars, corn, spices and gold. I also wanted to block Chinas expansion to my direction.


Right after founding Pyonyang I finished the Stonhenge 2200BC choping few forests and same time my exploring warrior found that the landmass was limited and Toku was taking starting to annoy me just by existing. I decided to send few axemen to claim land that was rightfully mine. I also thought that Toku could be quite a annoyance with his protective trait if he could get longbows.

Few turns later 1800BC I finished Oracle and decided to take CoL as a free tech and Pjongyang got the status of holy city. Then I declared war on Toku because he didn't want to open borders. My aim was only steal worker and do some exploring on his territory. He wasn't very angry about the war and we declared peace 1360BC.

My first GP was obviously Prophet and I built the shrine to Pjongyang and I met Sury 950BC when his scout came along China's lands. Then I dedicated both of my cities to production of axemen. With some whipping I managed to get my army of 12 axeman ready by 500BC (I know it's a bit late for early rush) and attacked Osaka. I was more than happy that Toku hasn't built a city to claim the copper east from Kyoto and he had only archers and warriors.



I lost two axemen to those protective archers but invaded it without problems. I decided to keep Osaka and advanced quickly to Kyoto which has only a archer and a warrior. I also kept Kyoto because it claimed all those nice see-food resources and the cows. Finally I razed Tokyo and decided to end this first update here.



I think that next I settle the landmass and prepare myself to war against China that blocks my path. To gain from Wang's financial trait I also think that I should build some cottages. I would really like to hear your thoughts about early game and my ideas about next moves.
 
Going to put this in a spoiler, but if you want a hint on the start, take a peek. Its not a HUGE thing, just my thoughts after exploring my area. Sort of like the Starting Hint rolo used to give us:

Spoiler :
I regret settling on the Sugar. That little area can support 2 VERY strong cities. Take your time before you hit that "Create City" button.
 
First game here. Whoo hoo!

Anyway, my initial thought was to settle in place, but it would be very :hammers: poor. It could be used for a GP farm, with 2 major :food: sources and 1 minor one. But, i am a military mind and i decided to settle 2E.

Noble Epic- to 1000 BC

Spoiler :
However, when i saw the fish, i couldn't pass it up, and moved back again. I started on a worker and agriculture.
In 3850 BC i meet Tokugawa, who will die before his super da duper rifles.
#3800 BC i pop a hut for 38 gold. In 3650 i pop another hut for 44 gold. Next hut gives me one hostile warrior, which i kill. 3225 BC i revolt to slavery, and discover copper in my capital. an axe rush shall happen with toku. 2775 BC my warrior has gotten woody two. he will be cleanup in my axerush-to get woody three. In 2400 BC i get an event that gets me -1 relations with toku. Yay. Now i have an excuse to declare on him. In 2350 BC i get the herb event, so now i am unhappy at size one. Good thing that i now have enough axes-8 big boys. In 2150 Bc, toku adopts slavery, and i already know iron working. Guess whats defending Kyoto-an archer and a warrior. Who hoo! 2050- japan gone. I got 5 exp out of it. 1 on one axe, 2 on another, and 2 on my woody warrior. now it is time to REX. 1750 BC i meet Qin Shi Huang. Wo, maybe i shouldn't have axed Toku? oh well. But now i will be able to put the Hwatcha to good use. 1325 BC, qin builds the great lighthouse, really tempting. 1275 BC,Pyongang or whatever is founded to claim the corn and the gold ( start to block off qin from REXing) 1025 BC, i raze Cherokee.

Techs:Agriculture-Bronze working-wheel-Iron working-pottery-writing-fishing

Sorry about the kind of jumpy report, but hey, its my first time.

 
The last time I played Korea I pulled of the Oracle/Col G Sci bulbs Philo in the same turn. I just did it again here at 825BC.

EDIT: Now its 1909, looks like I will win a 3CC cultural before I get a chance to launch.
 
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