SAM-01 Smoke and Mirrors

Norvin_Green

Emperor
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
1,874
Location
The Garden State
I'm having loads of fun over in PeteyP1 so I was looking to start another. Found Whosit over in the open SG and promptly recruited him. So here is how we are starting out. Random leader (but after the first roll we decided to use the same leader for optional start B & C) No variants just a standard size map at Monarch with the following rules:

Rules for play (stolen from DM) :D

Spoiler :
Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great, players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates.

Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Is it so hard to push the spacebar 15 times??

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it. [The only exception to this are city specialization signs.]


Game:
BTS with BUG patch
up to 6 players
Monarch difficulty
Epic speed
Standard size map - Random map script (courtesy of Refar and a favorite of mine)
Random opponents

And now to the game. Here's our random leader:

Spoiler :
Stalin.jpg


His UU:

Spoiler :
cossack.jpg


and UB:

Spoiler :
ReseachInstitute.jpg



Generated 3 saves for us to choose from:

Save A:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Save B:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Save C:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Roster:
Whosit (moved to the front before he implodes :D)
Dave Hartwick (on deck)
Glare Seethe
radiofreestl
Norvin Green
Xanthus

So let the fun begin!

Here's the save:
 
Oh, my. Stalin, eh? This should be fun. Too bad that Russia's UU isn't "General Winter." Start A looks . . . interesting, though Russia is a land beast, so I think I'll vote "no" on principle. Though on second thought, I didn't see those pigs first. Hmm.

B is also a nice possibility. It looks like we're just a couple tiles away from the coast to the east, but that shouldn't be a big deal. We start with Hunting, so those Elephants can be acquired quick-like. Nice long river to provide commerce bonuses. Corn, and enough hills that I think Moscow would be a nice production center.

As for C, at first glance it seems too dry for my tastes. Looks like the coast is west, there. Maybe a lake to the northeast and is that the end of a river I see by the eastern hill? The one thing that draws me here is the double cows because that would be a nice production boost, though we can't make use of them until we get Animal Husbandry.

Right now, my gut is pointing to B. The corn and maybe a couple farmed grassland should provide enough food to work the hills and ivory, the ivory will provide a nice early happy bonus and can be used for War Elephants. They're even on the river, so we won't need roads to connect them immediately. So, unless I've missed the mark, I think we'd have a good production capital on B.

Opinion from Norvin and anyone else who cares to join this merry-go-round are certainly appreciated. :D
 
Sign me up, if you please, Norvin.

I vote C, B, A. I like C because corn is good, the river may provide early city connections, and there's plenty of commerce and hammers. Stalin starts with hunting and the elephants fit.
 
Nice to see you again, Dave! But do you mean start "B" with the corn and ivory?
 
Now, now. As a man of competence myself, I think it only fair that we allow players to exercise a certain degree of skill.

Anyway, my trigger finger is itchy, so is the plan to wait another day or two to see who drops by, or start this thing up and add to the roster as we go?
 
We will wait to see who else is interested as we want everyone's input as to how to proceed. Hopefully it will fill up during the day today and you can play tonight or tomorrow. :)
 
I'd like to sign up. Haven't played a SG yet but I'm a pretty decent Emperor player when I'm concentrated and having a whole team watching every step will force me to do so. So I don't think I'll mess up too badly.

I like B as well. C is difficult to pass up because plains cows is one of my favorite tiles in the early game, but irrigated corn and two elephants probably beats that. A looks really uninviting, I'd probably regenerate on the spot if I got that in one of my games, although that alone could be reason enough to take it on.
 
I'll hop onboard if I haven't alienated you with my rusty play, Norv ;)

Don't really have anything to add about the starts that hasn't already been said. B > C > A.
 
Since I'm busy lurking the forums :crazyeye: I'll welcome both Glare and radio onto the team.

It sounds like we're pretty solid for B. I have to admit that I usually start with a warrior build, but would a worker first make sense? It would stifle growth, but we'd be able to get the ivory hooked up that much faster.

On another point entirely, I wasn't gunning for any particular victory conditions at first, but when I see Stalin's friendly mug, I can't help but want to practice "Russian Diplomacy." :D :ar15:
 
Welcome to both Glare Seethe and radio!!
radio, as far as your "rusty play" I wish I was so rusty. Your analysis of the game is spot on as well as you are really strong at tech paths (one of my weakest areas).
So save B is the clear winner. I'll get the save up in a bit for closer inspection. We have one more spot open but Whosit is chomping at the bit so maybe we can get some build and tech ideas flowing soon.
 
Thanks for the welcome!

Worker first makes sense to me, with two elephants and so many barren hills he'll have plenty to do, and Agriculture as first tech for the corn is good. Then BW or The Wheel, or even Mysticism - but I say that only because I love Stonehenge and we are Industrious. We'll have to see how the map looks.

Victory condition - way too early to say! But I'll be disappointed if we don't roll over at least one AI with Cossacks.

edit: also, scout 1W>1SW, I think, though I can't imagine anything enticing us to move, the Settler seems well-placed at the moment.
 
I agree with Glare about Ag first and worker first too. Any thoughts on moving our settler 1 NW? We still have river access, pick up two more forests to chop and maintain one for chopping as well as add another plains hill. Plus with the game suggesting to settle to the NE it leaves a hill or two over there to hopefully build a coastal city with some seafood (crosses fingers).

Lol, as here I am suggesting just that. I'd move scout to the grassland hill NE to see what the coast looks like.
 
Glare: Your scout movement makes sense. I woulda sent him on the hill, but by moving onto the plains, we still have a move left if something interesting is visible. Not really sold on the Mysticism/Stonehenge plan, though I'm a fan of the wonder myself (though I haven't built it in my single player games for awhile). We're on Monarch, too, so I don't know how that affects our chances of getting it.

Norvin: I'm a little iffy about moving, but I see your points. If we think about moving, I guess we'll definitely use the scout to check things out. If that's the case, I'd suggest . . . 1 NW first. Looking at the screen more closely, I suspect the river dumps into the sea to the north. If I'm right, we'll get some sight over the water. If I'm not, we can still move the scout.

I'm definitely for Agriculture, and then probably Bronze Working. Potential for early axemen is good, but also because we need to whip those hearty Russian peasants! :whipped: Am I right?
 
That's a good point about a potential second city, although I'm not keen on settling on grassland instead of plains - even though we'd be gaining a forest. If we consider settling 1NW, though, wouldn't it better to move the scout in that direction to see what extra tiles we'd be getting?

My guess is that the blue circle's there just cause the game loves to recommend settling on the coast, but it's no indication that there's a resource there. But I do admit I am pretty conservative about moving my settlers, I usually just settle in place unless there is an obvious better spot.
 
I suggested moving the scout NW because we could still move him West (or South West) depending on what he sees North. I think I'll put my chips on settling in place, unless Dave or radio have compelling urges otherwise.

Oh, I've been meaning to ask, Norvin, I take it that random map script is custom? And is that a random "every script in Civ IV" or the more classic random "Pangaea, Continents, Archipelago?"
 
Not really sold on the Mysticism/Stonehenge plan, though I'm a fan of the wonder myself (though I haven't built it in my single player games for awhile). We're on Monarch, too, so I don't know how that affects our chances of getting it.

Yeah, it's definitely situational. If we end up isolated I could see doing a little wonderspam, though (how likely is that on Random Map Script?), and on Monarch we should still have time to postpone this decision until the second turnset - especially since we're Industrious.
 
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