Poterntial Mod of trait

Updated: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8033498&postcount=30

SO I am considering starting to try and MOD my BTS game once the RPCs are finished. I plan to start this by redoing traits to fit my own taste as well as add 2 that I think are missing.

My thinking is as follows

1) Level out the overpowered economic traits Financial and Philisophical

2) Add abilities, particularly the mid to late game.

3) Alter national wonder production per trait (certain traits get +100% for one NW)

SO here is my trial run at this (Just thinking, modding occurs further down the road).

Charismatic:
-25% XP
+1 happy, +1 happy with monument, +3 happy with broadcast tower (representing three late game wonders)
Double speed Monument, Colesium
+100% construction of Globe Theater

Industrious
+50% World Wonder PRoduction
Double Forge, Factory, Levee
+100% contruction of Iron Works

Imperialistic
+ 100% GG
-50% settler
double speed Stable, lighthouse
+100% WestPoint

ORG
-50% upkeep
Double Courthouse, MArket
+100% Forbidden Palace

Creative
+2 culture
Double theater, library, broadcast tower
+100% Hermitage

Spiritual
No anarchy
double temple
double missionaries
+100 Red Cross

Protective
Free CG and Drill to archery/gunpowder (same)
double Walls, castles, jails, bunkers, bomb shelters
+100% Mount Rushmore

Financial
+1 commerce per 2 commerce land tile
double bank, corporate executive
+100% Wall Street

Aggressive
free combat 1 to melee, gunpowder, Navy
Double barracks, drydocks
+100% Heroic Epic

Philosophical
+50% to GPP
double university, observatory, lab
+100% Oxford

Expansive
+2 health
+50% worker production
double granery, aqueduct, grocer, hospital
+100% National Park

Sea-Faring (NEW)
+1 commerce/2 commerce for sea/coast/lake tiles
Free flanking I to navy
double lighthouse, harbor, custome house
+100% Maori

Diplomatic/Espionage (NEW)
+1 ep per city
+1 extra diplomatic rating to all leaders with open borders
double Agency, Bureau, Spy
+100% National Epic

All very tentative and my own taste.

Any overt problems???

EDIT:
Changed PRO NW to Mt. Rushmore
Changed SEA NW to Maori
Changed ESP trait

maoa statue would go great for seafaring

royal62184 said:

maoa statue would go great for seafaring

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Good point. Iam at lunch at work and thought I missed a few NWs.

Diplomatic/Espionage (NEW)
+25% ep
+1 diplomatic rating with all leaders
double Agebcy, Bureau, Spy
+100% National Epic

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This seems incredibly powerful. +25% EP and an easier ability to stay peaceful with neighbors? Wow. Build the great wall, tech to alphabet and away you go! If you manage diplomacy well, you could probably avoid war most of the game and continuously steal techs/destroy improvements on precious metals/happy resources, and effectively dismember a cottage economy (with Nationalism)

I like your ideas for seafaring a lot.

EDIT: Since you are doing this for fun, let us know how this goes. I'd actually love to try an EE game with you diplo trait on a higher level.

It's such a global balance change that it's hard to picture how they'll interact. My suggestion is to try it, then make tweaks.

ORG and Diplomatic seem a bit powerful at first glance though...especially diplo (+1 global diplo is significant, and the 25% EP when no other leaders have access means if you go hard on EE you can easily match stronger beaker rates from turn 1.)

But you're doing this for fun, so balance isn't necessary. You'll have a very, very hard time making it balanced w/o massive testing anyway, so tweak it for fun . They at least look interesting.

Double missionaries may make spi extremely overpowering for cultural and AP wins, and also for diplo in general.

Having the same NW bonuses on more than one trait could lead to +200% super bonuses.

on seafaring, i think combat one would be more balanced as flanking opens the nav line which are by far the best naval promotion (at least as far as transport are concerned) and may be overpowering early.
Vassalage would mean Vikings could get nav 2 when built.

The viking ub is already strong enough currently on galleys this would be gamebreaking


Rest seem fine to me

I want to play as diplomatic/financial. Pump up that slider and get 25% more. EE is my favorite and that just sounds like so much fun.

Regarding ESP: I thought of this and looked at castles. How much do they add to espionage at +25%? Helps but not overpowered, ditto nationhood. Also in the very early game the capital would have 5 ep versus 4, helpful but not overpowered I think. The diplomatic bonus may be overpowered, but perhaps adding upon opebn borders, thus a +3 open borders diplo??? This way all eladers are not immediately pleased.

Regarding the NW, right now only ESP and PHIL share one NW, the NE. Simple, no leader will have both traits!

Regarding Vikings: that's assuming Ragnar is AGG/SEA. And yes he will be Seriously crazily overpowered Viking Warships with a fast drydocks are exactly what I would look for!

Regarding SEA flanking I. Produces a very strong navy which is the point of the trait.

Regarding SPI. Had trouble finding a good help for the mid-late game, so this was the best (and we cannot abuse OR civic). Alternatively I thought of being able to build monestaries all game. Also teh SPI NW stinks.

I always wished you could build espionage like you can wealth, culture, and research.

Regarding ESP: I thought of this and looked at castles. How much do they add to espionage at +25%? Helps but not overpowered, ditto nationhood. Also in the very early game the capital would have 5 ep versus 4, helpful but not overpowered I think. The diplomatic bonus may be overpowered, but perhaps adding upon opebn borders, thus a +3 open borders diplo??? This way all eladers are not immediately pleased.

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The issue is the time frame that the advantage comes. You have an effect that applies commerce as well as the library, for free, in every city, that the AI has no means of countering w/o the same trait. Because EP spending and amount accrued affect the costs of missions, you can really get ridiculously favorable tech steals by selling out on EP...especially if you get gwall and farm a couple gspies. Each gspy is immediately worth 15 EP now, so just farming 2 is basically all the research you need for a long time when combined w/ courthouses . Using one for SY becomes pretty appealing too.

I always wished you could build espionage like you can wealth, culture, and research.

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Probably a balance issue, although you can approximate it with a SY bur capitol and building wealth to run the slider on EP through that commerce.

Maybe start of w/ +10% ESP instead of +25% ESP. That wouldn't be as game breaking imo.

EDIT: or maybe a -5% to -10% additional passive reduction only after the spy has been stationary for 5 turns only. Which is basically the same as +10% ESP but harder to use and won't make the passive espionage bonuses so easy to get like see research, see demo, etc.

TheMeInTeam said:

The issue is the time frame that the advantage comes. You have an effect that applies commerce as well as the library, for free, in every city, that the AI has no means of countering w/o the same trait. Because EP spending and amount accrued affect the costs of missions, you can really get ridiculously favorable tech steals by selling out on EP...especially if you get gwall and farm a couple gspies. Each gspy is immediately worth 15 EP now, so just farming 2 is basically all the research you need for a long time when combined w/ courthouses . Using one for SY becomes pretty appealing too.



Probably a balance issue, although you can approximate it with a SY bur capitol and building wealth to run the slider on EP through that commerce.

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Very good points. The other ep possibility is +1 or 2 ep/city, like the CRE and EXP traits. It spreads out the eps but give the capital that 5 ep at the beginning. More cities means more gold slider and inhibits scaling up the espionage slider. Another possibility is +2 eps per barracks. Or a -25% ep cost to each espionage mission. Or +25% chance of espionage mission success. Either way, there needs to be something "Sneaky" about the trait.

madscientist said:

Very good points. The other ep possibility is +1 or 2 ep/city, like the CRE and EXP traits. It spreads out the eps but give the capital that 5 ep at the beginning. More cities means more gold slider and inhibits scaling up the espionage slider. Another possibility is +2 eps per barracks. Or a -25% ep cost to each espionage mission. Or +25% chance of espionage mission success. Either way, there needs to be something "Sneaky" about the trait.

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These ideas I like a little better.

While the 25% boost to just the capital in the beginning isn't all that OP (5 instead of 4), if you build GW and settle that GSpy, now you're looking at 20EP instead of 16. After 20 turns early game, that's 80 EP more which will just keep increasing. Combined with another GSpy (thinking you'd go for an EE with this trait) and a few courthouses, you'll really be a 'sneaky' SoB. But once you hit up that slider (in a cottage heavy economy), that's when that 25% becomes game breaking.

blitzkrieg1980 said:

These ideas I like a little better.

While the 25% boost to just the capital in the beginning isn't all that OP (5 instead of 4), if you build GW and settle that GSpy, now you're looking at 20EP instead of 16. After 20 turns early game, that's 80 EP more which will just keep increasing. Combined with another GSpy (thinking you'd go for an EE with this trait) and a few courthouses, you'll really be a 'sneaky' SoB. But once you hit up that slider (in a cottage heavy economy), that's when that 25% becomes game breaking.

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I went to 1 ep per city. However, always remember that the EE game depends on how well your rivals tech. Being stuck with a bunch of dumb thugs is going to make most of the ESP trait ineffective

madscientist said:

I went to 1 ep per city. However, always remember that the EE game depends on how well your rivals tech. Being stuck with a bunch of dumb thugs is going to make most of the ESP trait ineffective

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Not necessarily. Utilizing a proper EE, if you have tech-backwards neighbors, all the better for you IMO. Use those massive EP to destroy metal/horse/elephant improvements constantly while building up your army. Only having bows is paralyzing pre-gunpowder.

Who would be the Secretive/Espionage-ing/Diplomatic leader? Tokugawa, Mao, Stalin...anyone else?

I dont see how Fin has been weakened in realitive power. FIN/ORG Darius sounds like a ridiculus economy for a very large empire.

I like the synergy of discounted buildings for Chr/Creative (who is that anyway?).

I dont like National Epic for Espionage Trait just for roleplay reasons, I think West Point fits better.

Imperilistic is weak late game, give them cheaper airports rather than ORG since airpower replaces horsepower in the game.

Financial hasn't been chaned, has it?
CreeDakota: there is no Cre/Cha leader

Financial suggestions:
+1 on tiles with 3 or higher (you need riverside hamlets, gold/silver/gems, or villages to trigger this)
+100% production of Wall Street

Seafaring suggestions:
+1 trade route per city
+2 per trade route
Free Flanking 1 promotion for all Naval Units

Aggressive suggestions:
Free Combat I promotion for all Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units
+50% for Barracks, Drydock
+100% production of Heroic Epic

Gooblah said:

Who would be the Secretive/Espionage-ing/Diplomatic leader? Tokugawa, Mao, Stalin...anyone else?

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Espionage leaders I am considering

Stalin, drop Agressive
Mao, drop expansive
Gilgamesh (synergy there) drop protective
DeGaulle, drop Industrious

Seafaring

Ragnar (drop Financial
Victori (Drop Imperialistic)
Hannibal (Drop Financial)
Portugal (drop Imp)
Dutch (drop Creative)

Just toying with these ideas. Right now I seam to have trouble learning to mod at teh east stuff. Using a tuitorial I cann mod a warrior from 2 strength to 100!

CreeDakota said:

I dont see how Fin has been weakened in realitive power. FIN/ORG Darius sounds like a ridiculus economy for a very large empire.

I like the synergy of discounted buildings for Chr/Creative (who is that anyway?).

I dont like National Epic for Espionage Trait just for roleplay reasons, I think West Point fits better.

Imperilistic is weak late game, give them cheaper airports rather than ORG since airpower replaces horsepower in the game.

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Financial eladers get 2 commerce from any sea tiles. They only get the bonus for land commerce.

Darius I may change, I never liked a FIN/ORG leader anyway.

There is not CHR/CRE leader. Maybe there should be.

I agree on IMP and will add airports. ORG maybe get's supermarkets.