Give Certain Units Special Attack Abilities

I am mostly an RTS player and over the years I noticed that RTS games have been evolved making combat more interesting by giving certain units special abilities.

I therefore think it would be a good idea giving certain units in CIV special attack abilities.
Currently defensive stacks have the advantage (other than being vulnerable to collateral damage) so it will be nice if we can use a few special abilities to help us when we attack.

I am therefore suggesting giving certain modern infantry units the ability to use Grenades and Sticky bomb.

Using Grenades can offer 50% bonus VS other infantry units.
Using Sticky Bombs can offer 50% bonus VS all vehicles such as Tanks, and Mechanize infantry.

Here is how this could work:
At a certain point players can give certain infantry units the Grenade ability promotion or the Sticky bomb ability promotion.
At that point the unit will receive one free use of such special ability.

When facing enemy infantry the player can choose to use the grenade ability in order to take advantage of the 50% bonus VS infantry.
When an infantry unit that has the sticky bomb ability faces a tank or mech infantry, the player can choose to use the sticky bomb to inflict 50% more damage
Once this ability is being used, the player cannot use it again for that unit until he purchase a new use of such ability.
If the player wants to equip the units again with grenades or sticky bomb, then the player will have to move this unit to one of its cities and Purchase another grenade or sticky bomb.

I think this will make the game more interesting by giving players more strategies to explore.

Another special ability that we can add to the game is a “Machine gun” for Gunships, Fighter planes and Tanks.
These units can the use the “Machine gun” ability against infantry units in order to receive 50% bonus.

This ability will also be tied to a special promotion.

This is just an example for special abilities.

More special abilities can be added in the same way to more units.

I think this will help to make combat in CIV 5 more interesting.

1. How much does this add to the game to someone who just wants his/her armies to do well?
2. Micromanagement.

Lockesdonkey said:

1. How much does this add to the game to someone who just wants his/her armies to do well?
2. Micromanagement.

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1) It gives the player more strategic options.
For example, if a player is facing too many armor units he can then give some of his infantry units the sticky bomb promotion so they can counter some of those armor units.

2) Micromanagement can be fun when you use it to get results.

We already have special abilities for fighters and bombers.
They can bomb units, or improvements, and even go on a recon mission.
Those are special abilities too.

This just sounds like promotions to me. Perhaps just add an explosives promotion, or something.

Camikaze said:

This just sounds like promotions to me. Perhaps just add an explosives promotion, or something.

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Same here, but I think there should be certain restrictions on promotion combinations as we don't want an all to powerful infantry who can sticky bomb tanks and fire missiles at air units.

exhile said:

Same here, but I think there should be certain restrictions on promotion combinations as we don't want an all to powerful infantry who can sticky bomb tanks and fire missiles at air units.

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I agree that we need certain restrictions on some of these special abilities.
That is why I proposed that every individual special ability promotion comes only with one use of such special ability.
After that special ability has been used by this unit the unit will have to purchase (with coin) another use of such ability (e.g. buy more grenades) in one of the nearest cities.

This will restrict the number of uses for special abilities.
As a result players will have to be very careful (and strategic) on when to use them.

In the many RTS games I played in the past few years I had the pleasure to play with many units that had special abilities.
These special abilities are powerful but at the same time they have a cool down period and they cost additional resources for every use (of such special ability).

These special abilities make the latest RTS games very strategic and more and more RTS games are adopting this concept.
These special abilities are also fun to use and they add a new level of strategy to the game.

I therefore believe that adding the special ability concept to CIV 5 will make the game even more fun just like it is more fun in the latest RTS games.

MosheLevi said:

After that special ability has been used by this unit the unit will have to purchase (with coin) another use of such ability (e.g. buy more grenades) in one of the nearest cities.

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I hope this won't be implemented. Units no matter what type have never required replenishments of propellents or munnitions.

exhile said:

I hope this won't be implemented. Units no matter what type have never required replenishments of propellents or munnitions.

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The purpose of requiring the purchase of such special abilities is to prevent them from being too powerful.

Players can decide if they want to use special abilities or not (they will be completely optional).
Some players may like to use them for special cases just like players who like to specialize their cities.

Too much micromanaging. The main thing is that, as a mainly RTS idea, it will conflict majorly with the TBS games.

Having to constantly send your units back and forth to get a one time usage would soon prove useless, and would mess up normal games, wars would take MUCH longer, and the fact that they have grenades/bazookas/[insert special thing here] is usually represented by the bonus that they get to a certain unit.

Also, your idea would cause everything to start using resources(Planes have range, and I am okay with that, but I rather not have range restrictions on my INFANTRY), and would cause a total flip of the game, or the idea would be too odd, and "alone" within the game.

Promotions already have restrictions (Naval ships can't have Pinch). It would just require perhaps more stringent promotion guidelines to ensure that you couldn't get too many multi-functioning super units.

Too much micromanaging.

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Not really.
Players who like micromanagement can go that route.
Players who don’t can just play with normal abilities.

Having to constantly send your units back and forth to get a one time usage would soon prove useless

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We are doing that anyway in order to heal our units fast and to offer them extra protection while they heal.

and the fact that they have grenades/bazookas/[insert special thing here] is usually represented by the bonus that they get to a certain unit.

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Not true.
Most infantry don’t have promotion bonus against armored vehicles.
These special abilities can offer certain units new promotions against units they normally don’t have bonus against.

Also, your idea would cause everything to start using resources

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Again, not true.
Only special abilities (special ammunition) will require additional resources.
Players don’t even have to take advantage of that if they don’t want to.
However, using these special abilities should offer extra advantage/benefits for players who use them.

It would just require perhaps more stringent promotion guidelines to ensure that you couldn't get too many multi-functioning super units.

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Promotions are not that easy to come by.
A player will have to choose between a passive 25% promotion against one type of unit or active promotion (requiring micro and extra resources) that offers 50% bonus against another type of unit.
I believe that should be pretty balanced.

1. Not true. Those people will then have a massive disadvantage. They will have to be forced into it.

2. Not true. Most end up having a large enough army to overwhelm cities while healing their units. In other words, they have a large enough army to leave their wounded behind in the captured city/defended area to heal while the main army continues to march.

3. False. Actually, I forgot about good ol' Anti-Tank.

4. False. If you don't take advantage, you lose. "Special Ammunition" is just like normal ammunition. Everything needs ammunition. Therefore, look at the last point.

5. Totally false. Promotions are extremely easy to come by. A good military city can give a unit 3 promotions. A good military city with an Aggressive leader gives easy access to the good promotions at Level 1.

Choose between sending units back and forth for a small 50% bonus while the enemy repairs, or promote your unit so it can stay in battle and wipe the enemy.

It will remain a "lonely", out of place idea unless it was powered up(Massively overpowered), or powered down(Non-existent).

Shackel said:

2. Not true. Most end up having a large enough army to overwhelm cities while healing their units. In other words, they have a large enough army to leave their wounded behind in the captured city/defended area to heal while the main army continues to march.

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Agree

Shackel said:

5. Totally false. Promotions are extremely easy to come by. A good military city can give a unit 3 promotions. A good military city with an Aggressive leader gives easy access to the good promotions at Level 1.

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Agree.

Shackel said:

Choose between sending units back and forth for a small 50% bonus while the enemy repairs, or promote your unit so it can stay in battle and wipe the enemy.

It will remain a "lonely", out of place idea unless it was powered up(Massively overpowered), or powered down(Non-existent).

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Agree. Overpower would be a new unit type (Cavalry) after researching a tech and underpower for being obsolete. (Horsemen)

Shackel,

Once again, special abilities (for a cost) work great in RTS game.
They offer new fun abilities that offer new strategic opportunities.
They have to balanced of course, but they can still work.
TB or RTS, it doesn’t matter, the idea can work for TB too with some tweaking.

By the way, lately I am getting the feeling that you disagree with my suggestions just for the sake of disagreeing.
I might be wrong about that but that is my impression.

So please check the private message I sent you.

An RTS game is a total opposite of a TBS, though. While in a RTS, special abilities just recharge, your idea requires to go back to other cities to recharge. The idea simply cannot be balanced.

Anything within a city would soon be invincible, while anything outside would be killed. Imagine Tokugawa. He would no longer be hated.

He would be G- SID(unless it was an archipelago/he was isolated).

giving units special abilities is a great idea in itself, but i do not see a balanced way to introduce it to civ and, more importantly, i do not see a reason to add it. the rock-paper-scissors approach works well and adding to it a "rock-paper" unit or a "rock-scissors" unit will do no good. units should be build in large quantities and wasted in large quantities. you, as the emperor, should have more pressing issues to worry about than did the infantry unit on tile (23, 45) use his "clog the tank's exhast pipe" special ability this turn or not.

An RTS game is a total opposite of a TBS, though. While in a RTS, special abilities just recharge, your idea requires to go back to other cities to recharge. The idea simply cannot be balanced.

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Special abilities will be balanced as long as all players have access to them.
These abilities are more powerful and for that reason they should be limited in their use.
Recharging in a city is just one way for a cooling down period.
There are other ways that a cooling down period can be implemented.

Anything within a city would soon be invincible, while anything outside would be killed. Imagine Tokugawa. He would no longer be hated.

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May I remind you that these special abilities can only be used for “Attack” and NOT for “Defense”.
Units in a city are vulnerable to collateral damage while being attacked so they are no way near invincible.

giving units special abilities is a great idea in itself, but i do not see a balanced way to introduce it to civ and, more importantly, i do not see a reason to add it.

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Once again, as long as these special abilities have restrictions for how many times they can be used then the game will remain balanced.

The main reason for having them is “to have more fun”.
I don’t know how many RTS players we have here but trust me when I say that using special abilities (including special ammunition) is a blast in RTS games.
It allows you to use a weak unit to defeat a stronger unit and that is always fun.
The limited use of such special abilities is also contributing to the fun element because you appreciate it more.

Getting a Great Person in one of our cities is always fun, isn’t it?
So we need more special game elements to spice up the game.

The special abilities will either be underpowered, or OVERpowered, do you know why?

If Infantry had a special move that gave them a bonus(50%, for example), guess what people would do instead of sending anti-tanks?

They would send giant stacks of infantry instead of anti-tanks.

The game would become indirectly streamlined beyond all belief.

Okay, I'm sorry about the invincible people defending the city. They would just wait until the attacking army is one tile away, destroy it with special attacks, then retreat back to the safety of the city walls.

What on earth is the benefit that differentiates "My Infantry unit has the special ability of carrying a bazooka" from "I upgrade my infantry unit to an Infantry-with-bazooka unit" ?

I see no distinction at all in function; the latter has the benefit of working within an already-established mechanic. I am, myself, strongly inclined to do away with promotions altogether, and just go for a wider range of units.

First I would like to remind you that players have to spend coin on these special abilities so you would expect to receive better promotions for that cost.
Other players may prefer to spend this coin on expediting the training of certain units.
So some players will have smaller stacks with better promotions while other players will have bigger stacks with normal promotions.
This can easily be balanced via the cost for such promotions.

I also would like to remind everybody that when you attack a stack with an infantry there is no guaranty that the defending unit is going to be a tank (or any other unit).
So in most cases the infantry with the sticky bomb will not be able to use it because he will be facing a unit that is NOT a tank.
These special promotions work better when attacking individual units or small stacks because that is the only time you know for sure that you can use the special ability.