Immortal University XIX - Bismark

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
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Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 19th in the storied series, and it comes about 2 days after the 18th. Why? BECAUSE I CAN! Haha! No, more like several people requested I push the time table up, and honestly these things take about 3 minutes from generation to hitting the forums.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI! And if not, just call a MULLIGAN ;)!

Our leader this time around:

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Pointy hats are in vogue. The UU is complete garbage (though at least based on a decent unit), the UB is decent but late. Work with the traits! Similar to shaka, we get EXP. IND isn't at its finest on high difficulties, but I'm sure everyone can find a use for it.

Here's the start:

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No, I'm not rigging these maps :lol:. This was the VERY FIRST GAME that generated. Hopefully, it's not a sucker's trap where we're surrounded by 6 shakas out for revenge or something :dubious:. Huts and events are off by default (this is a game comparison and learning thread, after all), although if it bothers you terribly you can add the latter back. I reserve the personal right to point and laugh if the vedic aryans knock on your door though.

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

Without further ado, the ZIP file:

View attachment IU XIX Bismark.zip
 
Reporting in!!! What do people feel about 1W? IIRC metal cannot spawn next to a food resource so with that cow there it means we won't be wasting a production tile but we gain the irrigated corn.
 
Wow, just wow.. that's a good start and not much deliberation needed on where to settle unless the scout finds more goodstuff.
 
Immortal/Normal

Those who got pummeled in the last one, take a look @ this one, since it SEEMS much easier. So far.

Also, I finally have some screen shot action of the warrior > immortal barbs (and I used my non WB save, so they had archers).

To 1 AD

Spoiler :
I open up AG/AH and then get pottery before BW. Yes, I'm that confident in the warrior abuse :p.

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Sometimes I still hate immortal.

Time to start settling.

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More fog bust power.

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Yes, the below seriously locks out all the tundra/ice barb spawns.

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So I just built mostly workers and settlers, since the garrison needed was so minimal. I didn't get copper or horse for a long time and I didn't care. Here I am at 1 AD:

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Obviously tech suffers from all the expansion. Really cottages are the only things keeping me afloat. I don't have monarchy yet, but shared religion has Joao pleased (where he does not declare), and obviously they're going to tend toward MM before me.

I should look a lot better once currency comes in. I settled my first Gscientist in the capitol, next one will probably bulb philosophy to get back to tech parity (academy can come later off bonus GPP from pacifism I guess, or possibly I'll just skip it and bulb education).

If the AIs are too slow with those barb cities I'm going to hook up the copper I've finally settled (once borders pop) and crank some axes out.

I'm not leveraging IND much here :(. Just EXP :goodjob:. I don't have HR yet, so I'm relying on the resources I have and trades, but hey you take what you can get.
 
Yes, without a doubt 1W ;).

But wait! That puts a desert in the BFC! Have to plan ahead :lol:!!!

There's not enough food until Civil Service if you stay put though. One lost square is better than ******** growth.
 
1W is food parity at size 19, the horror! :p
 
Sheesh, that's a classic PK HoF start!
Fortunately it looks like we're not going to be blocked in on a small peninsula by a protective civ with a decent unit build prob.
 
Sheesh, that's a classic PK HoF start!
Fortunately it looks like we're not going to be blocked in on a small peninsula by a protective civ with a decent unit build prob.

And no copper :cry:.

I thought HoF preferred gems though.
 
Until 1A.D. Marathon/Immortal

This is going to be interesting as I normally regenerate gold/gem starts. I haven't played one in around 2 months.

Spoiler :
Well what a start. This map is 100% better then the previous one :P I chose to settle 1W. Early scout lives long enough to get a decent view of my land. Opening tech path goes Ag->Bronze

Joao settles 2 tiles away from my desired spot. I settle Hamburg 1 SE from that tile (this city ends up really strong). By 1580BC I start working my first scientists in my capital. My empire looks like this:

Spoiler :
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By 900B.C. I have 7 cities (well 6 cities and a marble colony :P). Capital is building Great Lib while Hamburg is pumping out Statue of Zues. Capital also has a settled GS in it. I am a bit short of workers at this stage in the game so I quickly remedy that with expansive.

Spoiler :
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720BC. Stalin is falling behind in tech. He is easily bribed for 3 techs to DOW Mansa. My main goal here is slowing down our tech crazy friend. Worth noting that the other continent seems to be spamming religions so I think I can presume at least 1 zealot there.

670BC I get Glib. 3 turns later Zues follows. Hamburg then goes to build Parthanon which gets built a few hundred years later. A lot of my tech/expansion has been paid for by tech trades. Mansa must have Great Lighthouse as he spawned a Great merchant. I leveraged near 1000g off him in trade. Also got a ton of gold from Joao in another trade.

Spoiler :
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180BC I had silver spawn from a mine near a city (events are off??? minerals still spawn??).

1AD my empire is 8 cities. I can break even on gpt at 130 beakers. Hamburg (my Zues/Parthanon city) is 8 turns off Mausellem. Happy cap from resources in cities is 10. I am turning my capital into my super science city (it has 1 settled GS + an acadamy).

I am running 0% slider while I wait for GS to get near completion in capital, then I am going spam 100% while I tech through paper->edu(with bulb)->Gunpowder. By the time Gunpowder is done I will be able to bulb philo with another GS (not rushing it since Toasim got founded near 1200BC on other continent). I am considering going for Chem, then taking steel with lib. Not sure if I will be able to manage this but hopefully I want a cannon war to claim a good chuck of my continent.

Spoiler :
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A quick question on AI behaviour

Spoiler :
I presume Stalin will still declare at pleased where as Joao + Mansa won't?
 
Well, not first. But close to it!

Anyways, much easier start than last time :)

Immortal/Normal 1 AD
Spoiler :

land
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Currently have ~13% of the land, with some cities left to settle. there's a barb city on the deer/iron/sheep site to the se, as well. got a settler on its way to found the spot marked city (on the sugar, double fish), which will be used to produce great people I daresay :goodjob:. Need to get a few more workers up and running to improve my land, though.

All in all, pretty great start -- irrigated corn + river + gold makes a fast opening. Rushed a settler to the double gems, powered research straight through Alpha then up to CoL, traded Alpha for Maths, bulbed Philo later. From the look of it, I think I even blocked Joao from iron (I had to rush settle Essen, as he had a settler 1 turn away from the spot its in now, so no coastal :(), so I can probably abuse him for resources and stuff. Pretty surprised that Stalin hasn't gone after Mansa yet. He's definitely boxed in or something from the look of the score.

tech shot
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Bulbed Philo ~275BC, though no Taoism. One thing that has me worried is the tech progress of the unknown civs, as Tao was founded some 600BC, with the MoM falling shortly thereafter...and Mansa's on MY continent :lol: Has this happened to anyone else?

Everyone's Jewish, with Mansa as the founder except Stalin, who is Hindu (coincidentally, also founded by Mansa). Seems to be a pretty straight-foward case of run to renaissance -> clear house -> win. With same religion Mansa + Joao (running the favored Civic + religion bonus), I'll have plenty of trading opportunities. No wonders yet though for me :cry:
 
And no copper :cry:.

I thought HoF preferred gems though.

Can't build many Quecha on a gems mine:mischief:

Played to 1200AD
A quick non game spoiler of my progress
Spoiler :

1000bpt at break even, top GNP and I'm on my way to steel. have already traded for Astronomy, will decide on a target later. Haven't done any warring yet.
I got the circumnav bonus by aggressively trading away my education beeline and because the AI is bad at sailing in a straight line.
Despite giving away Education early still managed to pick up chemistry from Lib (all the AI had nationalism by then so I had to go for something else


spoilers in terms of home continent civs, safe to read if you've met them all
Spoiler :

Funniest thing, Stalin declares war on Mansa twice because he's blocked in and cranky, Mansa is winning quite handily, Stalin chickens out and begs for peace... a couple of turns later Mansa vassalises to Joao who is about equal in points...
Joao is the powerhouse in my game now but I have him and Mansa at friendly. I'm not inclined to clean up Stalin in a war because he's absolutely swamped with Mansa's culture so I'd only be able to keep around 3 productive cities.
Have to decide if I'll take on Joao and Mansa at the same time or focus on an intercontinental invasion.
 
Immortal/Epic. (dont like marathon, feels like making the game easier)

First of all wanted to say this map is so much easier then the next one. Great start, as most people move 1 W.


Spoiler :

GS, settled it in the city, maybe not the smartest move and should have kept him for bulbing or academy.



My empire, ratings are quite the same. Joao declared war on me early but could fend of everything and bribed him with hinduism for peace. Masa is mass teching, but Stalin got pissed at him and declared war for some time now.
Both stalin and Joao are backwards though, so I might outtech them and take them first.
Also took 2 Barbarian city's in two very good spots, the moment calendar kicks in and parthenon is ready my cities can start to grow and I might start throwing in lib beeline with upcoming GS's.







 

Attachments

Damn I done a full writeup, was uploading ONE pic and firefox crashed. Time to start again, but this one won't be as long.

1AD-1364AD

Spoiler :
I started my Lib race, bulb Edu as planned, trade for Philo (unplanned) but was forced by Mansa to tech Lib before gunpowder/chem. I take PP with the free tech. Lib was teched in 585A.D which may be my quickest Lib to date.

Spoiler :
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I tech gunpowder, drop slider to 0% while I build Oxford in capital. I win circumnavigation in 745A.D by buying a map from Mansa for 10g after exploring only half the way myself. Oxford is built 750AD and I raise slider to 100% while I tech steel. Slider is kept 100% while I tech Military Science as well (Joao had Rifle's so I needed a counter before I invaded).

First invasion is 1095A.D on Joao (who was strongest AI, he was even outteching Mansa slightly). After 3 invasions I have taken all his good cities and vassalised him to myself before he did it to somebody else.

At this stage in the game I am averaging 500-600bpt, and teching towards Infantry. Then I am going to launch full invasion on Mansa.

 
Much better start than the last one. Although I'm still trying that. ;) Moving seems the best option to get the corn but whether 1W for the plains hill or to where the scout is? I won't be able to play this for a week or so. So good Luck all. :)
 
1364-Victory

Spoiler has a lot of things, such as intercontinental AI.

Spoiler :
1660 Domination. Not much to say here as my position was very very hard to lose from 1364 (my last checkpoint). Mansa dropped in no time at all. Stalin followed (infantry verse longbows). I captulated Stalin when he was down to a few cities to save time. I send my army (now upgraded to infantry+artillary) across the sea to Willim who was trying for culture. His longbows stood no hope. End of game I had given up all micro (every city was building wealth) and was pulling near 3k bpt.

Only AI doing decent was Hammurbi due to grabbing tons of land by blocking Sitting Bull.

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As far as this game goes I found it quite easy. Gold in BFC changes the early game a LOT. The increased tech rate, more gold for expansion and all your cities can grow 1 extra size remind me of why I generally regenerate gem/gold starts. I am glad the game wasn't a reminder of last IU with Shaka though.

The map itself (at least for me) was quite interesting. I had Joao + Mansa spamming a little tech club with each other which I had to try and keep pace with, Willim across the seas going hard at a cultural victory and Hammurbi doing whatever it was he was doing (he was powerful though). It really ended in terms of challange after Joao was down as I had a big land advantage.

The biggest thing which helped me this game was bribing Stalin into a few wars really early with Mansa. This made them each others worst enemy and kept Stalin off my back the entire game. Constant warring also slowed down (I think....) Mansa though he still teched fast, and wonderspammed as well. The tech speed of Mansa + a trading partner on Immortal is pretty rediculus (diety would be crazy). Even with more land then him + a Oxford beauracy capital he was still outpacing me.


I would like to thank TMIT for bringing this series of Immortal games back to life. I had a great day today on my day off, and this series has been exactly what I was looking for. Can't wait to see how other people play this.
 
Immortal-Epic to 1500BC
Spoiler :

Settled 1W, scout revealed lots of land to the south, Joao to the west, Mansa and Stalin somewhere north. Scout chilled on a woody hill fogbusting SE of capital and hilled a few animals but was killed by a warrior when I forgot to look at him. Barbs may be an issue on this map, so build order was worker-warrior-warrior-settler. Tech path was Ag-AH-Wheel-BW-Masonry-Writ-Pott-Aest

I could already see Joao's borders to the west, so I founded Hamburg on a seemingly innocuous desert hill picking up 4 FPs, a plains hill and the sheep (with Joao). D'oh! O well, desert copper isn't that great anyway. At least I don't have to build a mine.

I figured I could block out a ring around my land and backfill the sites at my leisure, sharpening swords on the barb cities. Munich went NE of capital for a dynamite future commerce city (has something like 19 green tiles or FPs).

Mansa founded Hindu and it spread to Joao quickly (funny, neither have writing yet) so I went for writing before pottery to open borders and get me some of that. Stalin took Judaism and they both spread to me. Of course, I joined the Hindu block. Joao won't declare at pleased, so I'm free to push up north once I settle one more blocking city south of Hamburg. Luckily, a barb city spawned just where I want it so I'll camp outside of that soon. It's not great land, so I don't want the city too early.

At this point I decided to go for the 'mids. Actually, I decided that when I teched masonry, otherwise I would have skipped it. No need for archery on this map - I wouldn't even have teched hunting so I could keep warriors around to defend! The land is probably better for cottages, and so I will build both and probably run the SSE + wonder economy in the capital. It has 6 hills so that shouldn't be too hard to get going.

I want to settle the fourth city up on the coast with the jumbos, fish, sugar and copper in the BFC. Thoughts? It'll be a great city and we'll need ports for the intercontinental "diplomacy" later on, although it's pretty far from the cap. However, with rep specialists I can REX and let the slider down pretty low. There are many potential drafting sites (the fish FP location east of Berlin, the sheep/wheat to the SE ...) I stopped here for comments.

I see no reason for an early war on this map. There is easily enough room for 9-10 cities, and with a fantastic trading partner and some GP, should be able to take something sweet with liberalism. Will need to dump some culture into Hamburg to fight off Joao, perhaps with the GE from the 'mids I'll take Sistine.

Will play the next turnset later today. Cities:

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Empire, now and future:

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