Silk Plantation

kooboo · May 19, 2009

As above.
Does anyone builds more than one in his/her whole empire?
I found it very poor compared to other plantations and usually cottage them (or farm if there's a need for food) and have no scruples about it.
I have similar feeling about Dyes, but these are slightly better (as good as Town without Free Speech or Printing Press).

Racsoviale · May 19, 2009

I always build plantations over them, the AI throws all their money after you if you offer them a resource and ask what it feels to be fair....11g per turn for a silk or dye seems nice(allows for a higher science slider)

Shurdus · May 19, 2009

If you can sell the silk for gold then that would be preferable to me. The cottaging of the silk is fine, yet it takes a long time for cottages to grow as well. An argument could be made either way, but I prefer to just put the plantation up. It frees up my hands to trade around for what I need and makes sure I do not have to grow those cottages.

pigswill · May 19, 2009

If you can exchange silk for other health or happy resources then every city can run a higher population and work more tiles/run more specialists. The actual tile yield is a small part of the resource's value.

J-man · May 19, 2009

Silk is a nice resource to trade around.

Iranon · May 19, 2009

Specific improvements for quite a few resources are inferior to general ones... fur, ivory, marble, silk and uranium come to mind. Dye, marble and stone are about equal to the usual suspects.

These are often candidates for settling on, especially if the base yield exceeds the default for the home square (plains elephants and plains hill marble/stone being particular favourites). Riverside commerce resources are very interesting for Financial leaders especially in the beginning of the game.

Settling on them has the advantage that you keep the resource without working a sub-standard improvement.

CLST · May 19, 2009

I agree with Iranon. Settling for an extra commerce still allows you to sell the weaker currency resource, and also work better tiles.

Of course, these things tend to come in big groups. I think cottage is better than plantation because a) It takes a while for the AI to have the gpt to trade that makes it worthwhile, and b) with multipliers on your commerce, you're likely to get more from the town on the improvement.

TheMeInTeam · May 19, 2009

CLST said:
I agree with Iranon. Settling for an extra commerce still allows you to sell the weaker currency resource, and also work better tiles.

Of course, these things tend to come in big groups. I think cottage is better than plantation because a) It takes a while for the AI to have the gpt to trade that makes it worthwhile, and b) with multipliers on your commerce, you're likely to get more from the town on the improvement.

Non-commerce based sources of gold are really potent at high sliders, and a resource trade can be worth even crazy amounts like 15 gpt though.

I find the situations where minimal extra commerce (you only consider the amount that a town gives over the plantation as relevant for decision purposes) is worth more than the resource itself or its trade value to be extremely rare.

Feyaria · May 19, 2009

Cottage:
10 turns x 1 :commerce:

20 turns x 2 :commerce:

40 turns x 3 :commerce:

40 turns x 4 :commerce:

Total: 110 turns for 330 :commerce:

Silk: 110 turns x 3 :commerce:

= 330

Only after 110 turns on normal speed the cottage starts to give you more commerce then the plantation. Thats too long! If you can trade the silk fo another resource or some gpt, its always better then a cottage.

vale · May 19, 2009

Feyaria said:
Cottage:
10 turns x 1
20 turns x 2
40 turns x 3
40 turns x 4
Total: 110 turns for 330

Silk: 110 turns x 3 = 330

Only after 110 turns on normal speed the cottage starts to give you more commerce then the plantation. Thats too long! If you can trade the silk fo another resource or some gpt, its always better then a cottage.

The math is fuzzy thanks to Emancipation, Free Speech, Universal Suffrage, Printing Press but in general I think the conclusion is pretty ok.

I will just point out again, settling on a riverside silk gets you the extra commerce in your city square and the resource. Doing this and cottaging a bare tile will always work out better than settling on a bare tile and cottaging the silk assuming they both fit the dotmap.

CLST · May 19, 2009

TheMeInTeam said:
Non-commerce based sources of gold are really potent at high sliders, and a resource trade can be worth even crazy amounts like 15 gpt though.

I find the situations where minimal extra commerce (you only consider the amount that a town gives over the plantation as relevant for decision purposes) is worth more than the resource itself or its trade value to be extremely rare.

I agree with this, but you miss my admittedly poorly/not stated point.

I do think that in terms of AI gold it is rare, but the AI rarely has 15 gpt available to trade, and I am not aware of any way to coerce the AI to have that much gold available to trade.

The amount of hassle to fetch the eventual 15 gpt is significant.

The amount of hassle of working another tile with an extra commerce, is not.

And you deny the happiness to resource to the AI.

Gliese 581 · May 20, 2009

It is rare that I build something that will not give me an extra resource.

Sisiutil · May 20, 2009

CLST said:
I agree with this, but you miss my admittedly poorly/not stated point.

I do think that in terms of AI gold it is rare, but the AI rarely has 15 gpt available to trade, and I am not aware of any way to coerce the AI to have that much gold available to trade.

The amount of hassle to fetch the eventual 15 gpt is significant.

The amount of hassle of working another tile with an extra commerce, is not.

And you deny the happiness to resource to the AI.

In many games, though, I find I need that extra resource to trade, either for other resources or for GPT. Extra resources for trading are also handy in the late game if you found corporations. That extra wine, silk, sugar, etc. can obtain minerals or fish to boost Mining Inc. or Sid's Sushi for you. And unlike a cottage's commerce, GPT is not filtered through the sliders first. Enough of it can allow you to raise the slider--very handy.

15 GPT is indeed unusual, but not from your biggest rivals. I generally trade health resources to my main competitors and happy resources to the weaker ones to avoid boosting the AI too much.

Iranon · May 20, 2009

Afaik, you can still rack up considerable GPT by subsidising trade - gift them GPT, get it back in a resource deal, cancel your subsidies after 10 turns.

Re cottage vs. inferior commerce improvement: Why are we being dogmagic? Whether we can flog another resource for a profit is easily checked. Whether cottages will blow another tile out of the water depends on our civics.

Another minor matter: If we're FIN, require a mix of farms and cottages and don't need the questionable commerce resource... farm them if they're riverside. You'll get the trait bonus on the tile, and a cottage on a bland tile will get it eventually. You lose out one commerce if you do it the other way round.
Settling on them is better still, but a few of them tend to come in clumps...

Venger · May 20, 2009

Besides, silk feels so soft on my skin...

Sisiutil · May 20, 2009

Venger said:
Besides, silk feels so soft on my skin...

Lemme guess, you wandered over here from one of the fetish boards, didn't you?

Malician · May 20, 2009

I usually find that I put cottages on the tile, then by the time I can build plantations the cottages are worth more..

6K Man · May 20, 2009

There is also the issue of how many AIs already have Silk and how many Silk tiles you have. 7 Silks in a game with only 5 AIs means you can cottage at least one with impunity.

Sisiutil · May 21, 2009

6K Man said:
There is also the issue of how many AIs already have Silk and how many Silk tiles you have. 7 Silks in a game with only 5 AIs means you can cottage at least one with impunity.

Unless they go and create colonies... though I'll grant that the colonies rarely have much GPT available, so it may not be that big a deal.

NonPrayinMantis · May 21, 2009

I tend to avoid building silk plantations whenever I can. There are a few reasons for this:

1) Since silk often occurs with a forest on the tile, a silk/plains/forest tile is one of the better ones to work when undeveloped. 1 :food:

2

1

is pretty good as is.

2) When forts come around, this gives you an ability to get the silk resource and still keep the hammers (and health bonus) from the tile, so I will usually build these on silk, especially in hammer-poor cities. I will usually plantation maybe one or two silks. If I have more than two I will sometimes build a cottage on one of them to increase trade. As mentioned above, a town is better than a silk plantation.

3) When Lumbermills come around, you can build these and still get the addtional trade from the tile, although you will lose the resource. With railroad that increases the yield to 1 :food:

4

1

, not a bad tile.

4) The AIs will almost always plantation the silks they have, so when you conquer their lands, you will get more silk plantations.

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