Immortal University XXIII: Saladin

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
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Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 23nd in the storied series. Not steroid series. At least, we've never failed a test ;).

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Last time we had good starting techs. Can't have it every time! So at least we have good traits again...

...

:lol:

Anyway, the UU is probably not the top thing for immortal, but the UB can win some culture pressure wars and whore out the GPP ASAP, so it's not all @ a loss!

Here's the start:

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


As usual you get the first start I generate. Huts and events are off by default (this is a game comparison and learning thread, after all), although if it bothers you terribly you can add the latter back. I reserve the personal right to point and laugh if the vedic aryans knock on your door though.

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

Without further ado, the ZIP file:

View attachment Immortal University XXIII - Saladin.zip

Edit: Rather than a traditional update, my submission for this Immortal U will be in the form of a YouTube video (my 3rd let's play game). Once it is fully uploaded (takes some time), I'll post a link.
 
Ya know TMIT, you could have thrown us a bone, weak leader, weak starting position.

MEEEEH

Guess I go mids, henge, prophet specialist economy and make a fool of tha AI beating them with the UU
 
Like I said, it's a random fractal start. But we don't know if the game will be hard or easy until we meet neighbors and see surrounding land.

In place allows an attempt @ a religious opening, but settling on the plains hill riverside seems stronger. Warrior 1 NE IMO to see if anything entices us.
 
wooh, there is quite a pace in Immortal serieus, i havent even finished the mao game.

I personally like saladin, just because he is spiritual and i tend to have my best games with spiritual leaders. But it might be studies require me to skip this one, immortal is above my level anyway, but i soon hope to get there.
 
uhm why does it show as "noble" difficulty when I use the worldbuilder?
 
Salad sucks but for some reason I always have good games with him.

Imm/epic, 10 AD:

Spoiler :


Had to self-research alphabet AND iron working. Will and Hat have different religions and are worst enemies, so no tech trades. Then Bis made contact and they are trading again, so their tech pace is taking off.

My big mistake was settling the horse/clam spot first, but barbs aren't a problem on this map, so fish city to the NE first was the right move. Will stole that spot and now I don't have room for my 6th city. The jungle to the N didn't help. Immortal AIs can spam jungle cities with impunity, while I had to delay my expansion there.


This is for the Madrassa haters. Look at Medina pushing back his creative trash. And Damascus just stole the gems:

Civ4ScreenShot0001-145.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002-143.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003-141.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0004-132.jpg


Need to pump out a coulpe GS asap, but I don't have good cities for that. Maybe Damascus with calendar and some CS farms.









 
This map is hard...

Only vain hope I got is getting towards some rifle later in the game and squash the opponents, will post later :)
 
Downloaded save but i am not sure then i will play. From screenshot looks like tough position to choose where to settle... Will need to employ fog reading skills...
 
Imm/epic, 1000 AD:

Spoiler :


I'm cornered with my pathetic 5 cities but there's hope because Will is our neighbor. He has a puny 25 buildunitprob and has cities on two different islands to the NE. Only 7 on the mainland and 2 can be captured very quickly (1st and 2nd turn of war).
I have very little prod, so I think I'll build in Mecca and Baghdad (Moai) and draft to death in the other 3 cities.
I have a GS ready to bulb chemistry and (I hope) a GM coming soon. I hope it's a GM and not an artist...I always confuse them and wasted 7 turns on GA.

So the plan: prebuild trebs, upgrade to cannons with GM cash. Draft rifles and kill Will.

Printing Press from Lib. Will was researching it in 8 turns:

Civ4ScreenShot0000-148.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0001-146.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002-144.jpg


I tried to get the Econ GM, but Qin beat me by far. At least I have a head-start on rifles.

Civ4ScreenShot0003-142.jpg



 
Quick segment for war preparation, 1000 - 1415:

Spoiler :


Tech to steel (with a chemistry bulb), tech to rifles, trade for Nat. Everything's set. I totally ignored the physics and democracy lines.
I got that GM (at 75%) and got some 2000 gold to upgrade 10 trebs and deficit research to rifles.

Tech board. Will liberated Meh as a colony on the NE island:

Civ4ScreenShot0000-149.jpg


Empire. Mecca is building cannons and rifles, Baghdad just rifles. Medina, Damascus and Najran will be drafted every turn. My economy is about to die anyway (no more bureau) and I can push the culture slider.
Oh, and here is more proof for the Madrassa haters. Look at Middelburg. That's a creative leader with the Sistine:

Civ4ScreenShot0002-145.jpg


Army at this point:

Civ4ScreenShot0001-147.jpg


I think I need some 20 cannons and 20 rifles total. I'm focusing EP on Will and got visibility on Amsterdam for a couple turns. He has 3 longbows there. Middelburg probably is his most defended city and he has 2 lbows, 2 muskets and a pike there, wich will be killed in the first turn.

 
As much as I hate to waste any turns on immortal, I'm probably moving east/northeast direction with the settler after I move the warrior 1NE to scout. Not fond of taking the early religions on this level, although the opening spot would probably net you one.

Will play imm/norm later tonight.

cas
 
Immortal/epic, 1415 - 1708:

Spoiler :


1465 - 50 years of drafting and ready to go:

Civ4ScreenShot0003-143.jpg


1475 - Will's counter-attack isn't impressive:

Civ4ScreenShot0004-133.jpg


1485 - This could cause some damage, even if it's all medieval junk. But he's stupid enough to recapture his city:

Civ4ScreenShot0005-126.jpg


1495 - And get owned by CR cannons:

Civ4ScreenShot0006-124.jpg


1600 - Nice shrine in Amsterdam:

Civ4ScreenShot0007-121.jpg


1640 - Now this screen explains why I don't think I'll ever be able to fully enjoy the higher levels. I simply can't stand this . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. Not only did he pull off the usual magic rifles 10 turns into the war, but now he has INFANTRY and MG out of nowhere. No prob, he's almost dead, but my cannons was barely enough to kick him out of this continent.

Civ4ScreenShot0008-114.jpg


1660 - And then:

Civ4ScreenShot0009-111.jpg


Jesus, if he comes with some of his monster siege-stack I'm screwed.

1675 - But super Pericles to the rescue. Haha, let's see your siege now Bis.

Civ4ScreenShot0010-91.jpg


And later Qin joins the dogpile. Have fun with your neighbors, idiot.

Civ4ScreenShot0011-82.jpg


1700 - 6 infantry in his last city on this continent and all my cannons are dead. But he's out:

Civ4ScreenShot0012-67.jpg


Down to 2 island cities. Do you think he's going to cap or at least give me some tech? Obviously not, he has a VASSAL.

Civ4ScreenShot0013-60.jpg


Here's the land:

Civ4ScreenShot0014-49.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0015-46.jpg


Techboard is terrible. Maybe inf/arti war vs Hat at tech parity is possible, I don't know.

Civ4ScreenShot0016-42.jpg


But diplo is ok:

Civ4ScreenShot0017-37.jpg


With some work I may be able to pull off a diplo win. I think I'll get Sushi to boost my pop and get more votes.


 
1708 - 1812. Short round because it's a critical decision point.

Spoiler :


1200-1300 bpt now and growing with all the new cottages. But I'm still way behind. Almost managed to get something from Hat with assembly line, but she was researching it herself.
Main problem, we have no oil.
Infantry/artillery/antitanks is still a good option, but magic mech inf mid-war is a concrete possibility.

Second option is nukes. We have uranium and I finally have a monopoly tech:

Civ4ScreenShot0000-150.jpg


But the target (Hat) has a lot of friends and I'd probably get dogpiled by the world if I start nuking left and right. Any nuke is a diplo hit with Will, Bis, Washington and Pericles. They are all conveniently located to the W, so I can nuke their stacks as they come.

Civ4ScreenShot0004-134.jpg


Or I can simply use Fission to backfill and go with standard inf/artillery.

The empire:

Civ4ScreenShot0001-148.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002-146.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003-144.jpg


And a screen of Will's capital. No comment: 10 floodplains, no plains, just 2 plain hills. WS takes too long, so I'm building national park and globe here.

Civ4ScreenShot0005-127.jpg



 
@ Ai Shizuka

Spoiler :
Can you get them into wars again? If you can bribe an AI into war, gift both sides a couple nukes each. Use an airship to find their stacks and mail 2 tac nukes over and gift it same turn while it's in range of the stack. The AI WILL use it to nuke the ever loving crap out of its opponent, incurring full diplomatic wrath while you get off scott free.

Do it to both sides, then launch your real war vs hatty.

One thing to make sure though...make sure you have enough raw power, or they don't want to capitulate! Nuke's power rating goes away after usage :sad:

The other alternative you mentioned will work fine also. Infantry, arty, and anti-tank is good enough that you might be able to win domination from this point with those 3 units alone. Check out my MS Darius submission for an idea on how that works (I beat back an AI with double my power and vassals while he had a tech lead to win domination).

 
imm/normal

early
Spoiler :
Seeing the leader and the starting screenshot, I thought I probably wanted to go cultural.

Settled on the inland wines on turn 3, after moving the settler up on to the inland plains hill to look around. Researched Agr - AH - Writing - Fishing - Mining - Alphabet (1320 BC). I would have liked to settle on the jungle lake, but I missed it because I settled the seafood spot (on the horses) first, in order to get specialists going; and I just guessed wrong. So I settled the inland sugar/gems/pigs spot instead.

After settling the jungle city I promptly built fogbusting chariots, then 3 more settlers. Just had a couple barb warriors. Got cottages going 400 BC - 0 AD. Even the jungle city had resources and hills to work first. I worked on building the Pyramids after trading Writing for Masonry, but only got about halfway through them. The cash was pretty useful anyway. (Although I could have just built research...) It wasn't hard to stay slightly ahead in tech and pimp around. The seafood city made an academy in 650 BC. Builds went something like Madrassa - Granary - Forge - Courthouse.

After Alpha I researched Music (175 AD) - CS (600 AD), backfilling generously. The second great scientist won Philosophy (200 AD).

middle
Spoiler :
My diplomacy was pretty lazy and consisted mainly of not adopting a state religion, refusing all wars, and periodically closing borders with Hatshepsut. I also stayed clear of Qin, who was a double worst enemy for a while. I only made one resource trade, Corn from Washington, and for a while I sold him fish for GPT.

After CS I went straight to Liberalism, self researching the whole thing. Won it in 1110 and took Nationalism, but PP probably would have been better, because Nationalism turned out to have pretty poor trade value. Stayed in Bureaucracy + research until 1420, when I got to Rifling. There wasn't any specific threat, but I wasn't paying much attention, so I researched Rifling for insurance. I did build 5 Universities, but I didn't get around to the 6th or Oxford because I stayed busy with missionaries and temples instead.

late
Spoiler :
The AP was Hinduism (Willem), so I did those buildings first, at around the same time I was building Courthouses. Otherwise I neglected to check which cathedrals I had resources for, and ended up doing Buddhism (Copper) last. I slow-built all the cathedrals except for the last two, in seafood city. I cash rushed those after trading for Democracy.

Great people were
1. academy (650 BC)
2. philosophy (175 AD)
3. settle in jungle city (175 AD)
4. settle in seafood city (1160 AD)
5-8. 4 bombs in seafood city (1310, 1505, 1620, 1670)
I never ran pacifism and stayed in no SR except when requested.
6 great people came from seafood city, plus the Music artist, plus one artist from the rice filler city.

The way I set up the tiles, I only had food for four great people in seafood city. I never built the Globe and just ran 2, then 4 when I switched to Caste (1120) and traded for Guilds (1160). For most of the game it was size 8, running 4 artists. When they voted in Emancipation, I generated one artist less than I could have with this setup, but that turned out not to matter.

I built 26 Riflemen, 8 Workers, 4 Longbows, 5 Chariots, and 2 Warriors. I never had any wars. The AIs ended up being occupied with their own wars and inept cultural attempts and didn't look very close to victory when I won in 1894. I think the AI closest to victory was Washington, having vassalized Bismark and in the process of beating down Qin (I heard some nukes go off). At the last UN vote, around 25 turns before I won, Washington had something like 370 out of 700 votes, but needed 470.

imm-u-23-saladin.jpg
 
Regarding the starting position. I'm at work so I can't check myself, but can you settle on top of an oasis and if so does it give 3f/2c to the city site or is it like a FP and default to a desert tile?

Oddly enough this never has come up for me before.
 
Ah so close this time!

Spoiler :
Not the best of starts but it would have to do, and the map was a bit easier than the last one (damn mao and his resourceless isle!). Immortal/Marathon (Wanted at least to make it a bit easier on myself this time around)

Wasn't much of a game though, went for, and got, Hinduism and spread it around helping my economy. Converted to Judaism which was the major religion with Hatseput, WvO, Washington and Napoleon (WvO colony vassal), while the rest of them were Buddhist (Pericles, Qin Shi Huang and Bismarck) and weren't too unhappy with us for having another religion.

Plan was to get 6 cities up and go for a cultural win, I know boring, but really didn't have much of a chance being boxed in by a major cultural power (WvO). Got the cities up fairly quickly and managed to get 3 religions spread to my cities.

In the tech race I was hopeless behind already from the beginning, managed to catch up at liberalism, though I didn't get it first. At which point all my money went to culture.

Knowing I would never be able to fend any of the AI's of should they choose to declare war on me I signed a Defensive Pact with Washington, keeping me safe.

At 1540 AD the first war in the game was declared, Bismarck and a few turns later Huang declared war on Pericles, taking most of his lands before he at last capitulated to Huang. Not a big deal from my point of view, so I kept on growing more culture.

Then sadly it happened, Bismarck declared war on Washington, and due to our defensive pact I was in that war as well, luckily I managed to get by without the loss of a city (Gotta love protective Infantry, and stupid AI for gifting me with Assembly Line). However Bismarck made a vassal out of Washington leaving me undefended, more or less. Everyone was at pleased+ with me, even Bismarck despite our earlier war. So I kept the culture growing.

Then it happened, 10 turns before my last city reached Legendary (with the 4 GA I had horded) WvO declared war on me, and I was helpless to watch as his hordes of artillery and Mechanized Infantry ran over my cities :(.

Damn it though, was so close to winning.
 
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