Always War 2 -- Immortal Trial

Duckweed · Jun 11, 2009

So the pilot AW SG of Emperor level turned out to be short of consistent challenge after we successfully choked the 2 AIs in the continent. Here's the link to the 1st game and sorry that we have not make it the end.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=320105

Hence we decided to reroll a new one and I hope that our team members will be satisfied with the challenge this time.

Since the deity challenger thread goes with the old patch and half of our team members are there too. So this game going with the same 3.17 patch makes sense.

Here's the settings we agreed:

and this time we draw Khmer. So what, creative leader again :crazyeye:

, however, this trait is not that strong in AW setting.

The start:

IMO this start is a weak.

The only food resource is 3 clams. Khmer does not start with Fishing and building WBs means a slow start while we have to do so.

If there's no surprise in the plain tile, settling in place is the choice.

My plan for the 1st set:

Tech:
Fishing->BW

Capital:
Barrack to size 2->WB->Worker

Are you ready for this bloody game?

Roster:
Duckweed
Ungy
Rusten
Dirk1302
r_rolo1
Open

Dirk1302 · Jun 11, 2009

I assume we follow the direction of path 3.19 and will not overflow to gold

.

Dirk1302 · Jun 11, 2009

The Khmer are expansive, it might be a good idea to start or switch production to a worker once the 3H tile becomes available, it will have 4H output when building the worker. Once's fishing is in we build the workboat, grow to 2 and finish the worker. Growing to 2 immed doesn't improve hammer output as much as making use of the expansive trait immediately i think, moreover a hammers to worker are far more useful than to barracks this early. I usually would play it this way with the expansive trait but here it's not sure if we have enough to do for the early worker, hope for some mines to improve waiting for bw when we can chop away.

Growing to 2 then building wb is a bit slow imo, you only get 1 extra H for your effort. If we don't start with a worker i'd say we begin building the workboat on the 3H tile directly after fishing. Otherwise we'd have to build wb 4 turns after fishing on a 2F/1H, only gaining one H after when we're at size 2.

PaulisKhan · Jun 11, 2009

The problem is that there is absolutely nothing for a worker to do until BW comes in

Rusten · Jun 11, 2009

My first thought is to get a worker while teching fishing and then switch to a wb once fishing is in. We'll then get a wb in 8 turns and 2 food at the time it finishes (switch to grassland forest on the last turn). We need 22 food for size 2, so we can part build another wb while growing to size 2 (5 turns) and then finish the worker using the clam and plains hill.

Note 1: With creative we'll get the plains hill earlier.
Note 2: There's an unforested plains hill 1N+NW -- probably iron or bronze.

[fishing -> bw]

Rusten · Jun 11, 2009

Duckweed said:
and this time we draw Khmer. So what, creative leader again, however, this trait is not that strong in AW setting.

We didn't have creative last time.

Are you ready for this bloody game?

Very!

ungy · Jun 11, 2009

Rusten said:
My first thought is to get a worker while teching fishing and then switch to a wb once fishing is in. We'll then get a wb in 8 turns and 2 food at the time it finishes (switch to grassland forest on the last turn). We need 22 food for size 2, so we can part build another wb while growing to size 2 (5 turns) and then finish the worker using the clam and plains hill.

Note 1: With creative we'll get the plains hill earlier.
Note 2: There's an unforested plains hill 1N+NW -- probably iron or bronze.

[fishing -> bw]

this seems like a good plan--I can't see the plains hill on my save but if I'm estimating turns reasonably then that can be mined while we wait for BW.

I'll certainly learn something from this one--and with these settings we're likely to get some use from the UU

.

Duckweed · Jun 11, 2009

@ Dirk and Rusten
You are right, I had the impression that there is a 3F tile

and will grow to size 2 in 8 turns, so we can finish WB in 6 turns in size 2.

So I agree on the Worker(partial)->WB start, After WB, there are choices,
1. As you mentioned: build 2nd WB to size 2 (5 turns) and then finish Worker, but there's a problem:
we'll stop the Worker build for 13 turns and it starts to decay at turn 11
2. My thought is to finish Worker immediately, 6 turns to complete (21 turns) and BW (22 turns) will be ready in the next turn, so the Worker can start to chop the next WB in the same time.

Rusten said:
We didn't have creative last time.

I referred this to the Deity thread.

Rusten · Jun 12, 2009

Yes, we should avoid the hammer decay. Finishing the worker before growing to size 2 seems better.

Duckweed · Jun 12, 2009

Just attended my last convocation today after more than 20 years of academic study. I have a very good mood to play.

So the 1st set is very fast, but the information is not less.

Turn 0

Move the scout to southern hill tile and then settle in place, and we have a stone on the non-forest hill--I foresee the mids again.

Turn 2

What do you know from the 1st hut? -- The Wheel

Turn 3

The culture pops in capital and there are 2 huts nearby, so I move the scout back

Turn 7

We find another hut. Fishing is in and I change the build to WB, research BW.

Turn 8

Yeah, Agri from 2nd hut

Turn 9

Isabella's scout come from southeast and Buddhism FIDL and that's Izzy.

Turn 21

Worker out and 1 turn to BW, the last two huts give us 42g and a useless ocean map.

Roster:
Duckweed--Just played
Ungy--UP
Rusten
Dirk1302
r_rolo1
Open

r_rolo1 · Jun 13, 2009

Just spain so far...

The area seems rather dry indeed ....

Duckweed · Jun 13, 2009

There are probably other AIs in the continent since we are in the northern part and the massive hills surely cause scout much longer time to pass. The surrounding area is not bad, the western Corn/FP site is a great commerce city. There's another river right behind the southern mountain. IMO, it is pretty wet from the current map.

pigswill · Jun 13, 2009

Lurking..

Worth remembering that once the AI get sailing you won't have any clams.

Duckweed · Jun 13, 2009

I stopped after the worker is out since there could be debate about the worker move, while it's not good for discussion without the location of copper. So I advanced to the next turn and found:

NO copper in sight!

Dirk1302 · Jun 13, 2009

@pigswill, in the king of the hill game the ais didn't destroy the seafood with their galleys, maybe they're programmed to do that only with attack units (such as triremes which the ais seldom build)

PaulisKhan · Jun 13, 2009

Archery next then AH?, get some units out there fortified on forest hills and start sucking up barb xp in preparation for the first SoD.

Dirk1302 · Jun 13, 2009

There is probably time to go AH first, some chariots to wreak havoc in the spanish camps would help. Or did we agree on that 1000 bc rule? Don't think so.

ungy · Jun 13, 2009

Dirk1302 said:
There is probably time to go AH first, some chariots to wreak havoc in the spanish camps would help. Or did we agree on that 1000 bc rule? Don't think so.

I also don't think we banned the choke.
I definately think we should go AH first. We really need to get chariots out IMHO. Creative definately helps here--as does getting wheel.
So the question is what to do with the worker? My inclination would be 3 chops at which point we've have AH and have a better idea what the next move is.

Do you guys think we're OK without a warrior?
If the AI has popped a warrior from a hut or gets an archer our way we're sunk if the capital is open--they won't pillage us this early if it's garrisoned.

ungy · Jun 13, 2009

PaulisKhan said:
Archery next then AH?, get some units out there fortified on forest hills and start sucking up barb xp in preparation for the first SoD.

I think we're lost if we let the AI come to us. Only hope is to keep them boxed in.

Duckweed · Jun 13, 2009

I'd prefer archery next for the following reasons:

1. Unless there's a horse in the 3rd ring (low chance from the 2 southern tiles), our 1st archer can arrive Spanish border earlier to stop their expansion.
2. There's risk of defending the horse resource from barb with warriors.
3. The 2nd and 3rd cities in my mind are the western Corn/FP (2S of the Corn) and the Ivory/Spice (1SE of the Ivory) and they don't need pastures.

Tech:
Archery->Edit: (AH since we won't get the 2nd city settled so fast)->Pottery (for cottages immediately in the 2nd city)

Worker:

Go 1NW and chop then mine the stone next, and that's my 1st thought.

Always War 2 -- Immortal Trial

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