Civics Mod

ADHansa

Warlord
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
154
A while ago there was a topic in the main forum about the structure of the civics. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=316719
It made me start thinking but i didn't want to participate until i had sorted my ideas out. After that i have slowly started to sort things out. So I structured my thought and made some preliminary ideas. After that i started programming and modified my ideas so that they were easally programmed. And now i have a first draft ready.

The idea:
I have restructured the civic options into 5+membership options.

Lawmaker:
What nature does the supreme ruler and lawmaker have.
Spoiler :
Warlord: The person in power is the leader of the biggest military faction, like the ruler of the most powerful clan, city or highest commander in the army.
Leader Cult: The person in power is revered as being above the rest of the citizens by the rest of the society and whose rulings are beyond questioning. He might be an incarnation of a god, possessed by an over natural being or something similar.

Royals: The ruler remains from the same family, leadership passing down to the one who inherits him when the ruler dies or abdicates. The ruler is still not considered to be divine except by maybe some shady proclamation that no one really believes in, but his kin has by tradition bin set to rule and the society is content with keeping it that way.

Magistrate: The state is governed by a group of people who is considered to be the most learned and wise citizens. Learning institutions are wide spread to find these people and educate them, but too much free thinking and questioning of the leaders in power are disliked.

Theocracy: The state is governed by a group of people who is considered to be the foremost interpreters of the state religion.

Assembly: No single permanent ruler has power, although some person might be issued to take care of the armed forces or certain administrative task for a limited amount of time. Local leaders and otherwise important citizens participate in a parliament that are responsible for the lawmaking. This parliament usually get divided into different fractions that compete for power.

Code: The state is ruled by more of an idea than of a person. That idea might be something that are a consensus by a all the citizens or some written text that outline how the state should be governed and how the citizens should act. There is still someone in power, but he has a very little degree in freedom on what decisions he may take. To change a code requires a total change in social structure and is not a simple task.

Executive:
Who executes the laws of the supreme ruler and what are their relations.
Spoiler :

Local Customs: The laws shift from village to village, culture to culture. The authority let the local leader rule as he will, as long as he is loyal to the major ruler.

Alliance: The state is not a single state, but an alliance of independent states bound together by common culture and interests. No state are usually big enough to require a extensive formalized executive power, this are usually handled by the local authority directly. There are no capitol, although one state are usually leading the alliance or at least being the the dominating part.

Governors. Governers ruling large provinces are apponted by the highest authoroties for a short amount of time so that they don't build up a powerbase that become a threat to goverment. This means that governers are mostly intrested in accumulating as much wealth from their position as they can get away with before their term is over and they head home to the capital.

Graduated Officals. The officials handling the day to day governace of the state is required to have passed an exam before applying. This give all officials a basic competence, but unfortunatly doesn't stop them from being corrupt once they reach top positions in the goverment. Not all graduees earn a position in the state govermant, but those that doesn't can use their knowledge in other functions in the societe.

Vassalage: The state has a structure with a hierarchical class of tax-freed landowners that governs most of land, who in return are forced to maintain a fighting force during part of the year. This allows for a quickly assembled low-cost army, but limits commerce but doesn’t solve issues of providing the state with fleet and long term standing armies.

Free Cities. A vassal system where large cities have bought freedom from the system, still obiding state laws but having gain freedom to make laws concerning trade and behaviour within the city. Rich vassals may also choose to buy freedom from force requirements, allowing for the goverment to purchase mercenaries and a small proffesional army.

Empire: The empire takes a very pragmatically approach to government, locally choosing the choice of government that best serve their interest. The priority of an empire is to get in taxes, so that they can a have an experienced standing army to assist the local authorities in trouble areas.

Social Structure
How are the sociaty built and how does the differnent classes interact.
Spoiler :
Tribes: People are strongly defined by where they are born and what family and tribe they belong to.

Slavery: People are divided between free people and slaves, which are the property of other citizens. Most middle and high class citizens own slaves who are being their servants and doing any hard labor in the businesses the owners run. Slavedom can occur due to penalties due to crime or bankruptcy, but on the other side it is common for well behaving slaves to earn their freedom and nativity are usually low among slaves. So unless the slave class can be filled up from enslaving people in raids or military conflicts the availability of slaves naturally get drained.

Serfdom: People living in the rural areas are bound to live where they live and may not move. This leaves them very exploitable to the landowners who can easily accumulate wealth on their behalf.

Pawns: All people are the property of the ruler, although he usually allows some degree of freedom. But he is ultimately free to choose to order his subjects around as he feels like.

Apprenticeship: The conduction of advanced professions is heavily regulated. No one may not choose such a profession without having got permission by others in that profession. In the rural areas this doesn’t have much impact, but in cities people have to spend a long in apprenticeship before being free to practice a profession on their own.

Caste System: Citizens are born into a class that defines what profession they may choose.

Meritocracy: Citizens are free to choose profession as they want, and the most merited candidate is always chosen for each position in government positions. Often but not always this is rubbed off on the private market.

Collectives: Property that can be useful to all inhabitants in a society is owned collectively and the bigger part of all land is also common property. All the gains from common land use are shared equally between the users.

Crusade: The nation is at war, and the society putting in all available resources and manpower into winning it. All aspects of the society not applicable to the war effort will be stalled until the crusade is called of.

Economy
How do people trade and how is it regulated.
Spoiler :
Opportunistic: Most settlements are isolated without any major contact with the outer world. People try to survive best as the can, trying to farm and trade whenever possible.

Agrarian: The economy is based around farming for substantiveness. People live a simple life without much luxury or excess, but compensate by living a much richer social life. The little trade that is going on is usually made up by bartering and counter favors, and most taxes are paid by working at the local governors mansion.

Militarized: The military has a controlling hand over the economy. They may put demands on producers on what they shall manufacture and takes precedence over private production. Monetary transactions are looked upon with much suspicion, as pursuit of wealth often interfere with the needs of the military.

Permit based: The economy is based around the rural economy, but trade centers are playing an important part in the economy. Trade is heavily regulated, and much taxes are collected by permits, tolls and seasonal markets.

Mercantilism: The economy is becoming international and urban. To protect its own production tariffs and tolls are placed on foreign goods contributing to a large part of to governmental income. On the other hand a large effort is made into subsidizing the own economy and exporting goods in return for foreign resources and currency.

Open Markets: The economy is becoming international and urban. The government is trying to prosper from it by freely allowing traders to it cities in return for the same treatment from those they trade with.

Dominant Values
If one generalise on what values are dominant in the sociaty, what would be a good fit
Spoiler :
Kinship: The people that are most revered is those that can contribute to a good life and protection for their family and tribe.

Entrepreneurship: The people that are most revered is those that create new fortunes. Inherited wealth and unjust business doesn’t cut it, wealth by intelligent business and innovative ideas are what bring status in the society.

Rejoice: People are judged on how happy they are and how much happiness they spread to those around them. This can easily lead to a social life with a lot of excesses, and scoring political points is simplest made be casting extravagant parties and fonding large public entertainment events.

Knowledge: The people that are most revered have great knowledge and make groundbreaking discoveries in new areas. Specialist knowledge in one area is liked but those really looked up upon are those making progress in multiple fields.

Leadership: People devotedly look up on those that seek leadership and prove their ability to handle it. Military, financial and political leadership is considered sides of the same coin, and leaders in one field have to seek success in the other as well, or events might soon leave them sidestepped.

Excellence: Everyone is brought up with the idea that whatever one is set to do, one should try it best all the time. As a consequence, many devote themselves completely to their profession and achieve great skills in it.

Modesty: In this society living in excess and luxury is frowned upon. The people that are most revered is those that focus their time to develop their inner strength, and use any wealth and influence to help out those in greater need.

Justice: To make gains on expense of weak, poor or innocent is not acceptable. If one should notice anyone else acting in this fashion, it is ones duty to interfere on behalf of those taken advantage of.

Contribution: People are being judged on how much they add to the society. It is absolutely a cultural requirement to be successful in ones business, but if that isn't complemented with being a devout follower of the state religion and and contributing to the society as a hole, that person will only be looked upon as an ill liked profiteer.


And i have put it all down to a zipfile, just merge the assetfolders and replace files and it should be playable.

http://cid-d00ad5e35c4ec5ff.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Offentlig

There some strategy textfiles a havent done yet since it is only the first draft and some pythonreferenses to crusade i havent updated yet. I have tried to avoid unbalanses but that is probobly just wishfull thinking. But all this i will adress later. I will also redo some civics that i isn't satisfied with but that requires extra attributes and sdk-programming so that is the next task.

Fell free to test and coment.
 
I think it would help if you could specify exactly what each civic does in the post.
 
Always eager to use new civics. Thanks for your work.

Something should be done with religious civics. Arete, Sacrifice the weak and Guardian of Nature are a must have. You con make a new branch of "Religion" civics like in Orbis modmod..

The efects are unbalanced. There should never be things like -25% to science or +25% to science, it's a complete overkill that makes some civics useless and other overpowered. Personaly, I would never make a modification of more than 10% to values like science, yields or wealth (not gold) and rarelly make them negative.
 
Thanks for the input.

Yes, I get what you say about beakers, most of the time you spend your effort try to put as much as you can into you beakers, so percentual change to them have really big impact. So i guess the Knowledge and Entrepreneurship civics are the worst cases, any other you feel need rebalansing?

I don't have so much aginst putting negatives on civics, but i will see if what can be removed. On one side i try to make the civics distinguished, but on the other hand the only differense is that you change the commerce sliders +/- 10 % it doesn't make much sence.

I hesitate against putting in a 7th civicoption, already 6 look preety jammed on the civicscreen aesteticly.
I don't really get or like arete, sacrific the weak, and guardian of nature. What are arete supposed to mean, some kind of mining/dwarven society? GoN giving bonuses to allow megacities doesn't feel very GoN. And StW, by removing all the weak people you increase their nativity, didn't work for the spartans. Or is it supposed to mean that you let the remaining starve? To me they just don't feel right. I would like to here why they are approved. On one side i feel something need to be added to the Arete and foremost Hidden Paths techs. Maybe some kind of membership for miners and treehuggers could work.
 
Royal Family is useless with it's -25% to war weariness

Alliance would be more cool if you make it remove completelly cities maintenance. It could be compensated by -1 happiness/military unit in the city.

Slavery seems wrong without population sacrifice. Maybe you could move it to Economy and give it the sacrifice population function like Pawns civic.

The description of Oppertunism describes this civic as as one of the basic ones. Maybe all it's benefits sould be removed.

Maybe Leadership should give a decent gpp bonus.

Rejoice... maybe you could rename it to Utilitarism xD. I think it should give happiness for most of civil or cultural buildings.

Maybe code should give a general culture increase.

I'm making my changes to the xml, I'll post it later here.

Regarding religious civics, what I miss are their effects and not their names. You deleted them but you don't offer any civic with similar effects.
 
There will be an update soon, i just have to come to turn with 3.19 update and my dll-programs first.

Royal Family is useless with it's -25% to war weariness

I am not done with RF, more will added. I am not really certain what to add. Royal family seems like a natural lawmaker so it feels right to make it a strong general civics. I just want to get the balance right.

Alliance would be more cool if you make it remove completelly cities maintenance. It could be compensated by -1 happiness/military unit in the city.

Seems like a good and fun idea. But one of my thought is that is hard to keep an alliance together when it becomes to big and somehow that has to become included. I'll give it a thought.

Slavery seems wrong without population sacrifice. Maybe you could move it to Economy and give it the sacrifice population function like Pawns civic.

Slavery as now is just a temporary sollution. It is supposed to be warfare-assisting civic that works by allowing the slaves you capture and build a temporary building in the city adding some commerce and production. It is a good thought to put it in economy, it could be seen as either.

The description of Oppertunism describes this civic as as one of the basic ones. Maybe all it's benefits sould be removed.

Yes, maybe. I have least dicided on removing the farmbonus to separate it from agrarianism.

Maybe Leadership should give a decent gpp bonus.

Yes, maybe. I have nother little twist on it that wasn't possible without programming.

Rejoice... maybe you could rename it to Utilitarism xD. I think it should give happiness for most of civil or cultural buildings.

Naming this one wasn't a sure thing. What i am think of is maybe a little bit to selfish to be called Utilitarism, but it is in that direction. The goal is to make yourself happy and the means is often to keep others happy.

Maybe code should give a general culture increase.

Yet another civic caught in the progress of programming. The idea is that code locks the other civic from being changed in revolution without changing to another lawmaking civic. In return you get some cons to make it worthwhile,haven't deciding on exactly what yet.. As it is now it hardly fills a purpose.

I'm making my changes to the xml, I'll post it later here.

Regarding religious civics, what I miss are their effects and not their names. You deleted them but you don't offer any civic with similar effects.

I look forward to testing them out.
 
Here it is, I even added civilopedia entries.

Note that this is made for Orbis modmod + enhanced leaders modmodmod for Orbis version 0.23d ffH 0.41a. It'll probably work as long neither civilopedia nor leaderheads XMLsare touched. It's easy to change them anyway

Changes: Note that I'm only posting the effects, not the prereq techs nor pedia entries.
HU=High Upkeep
MU=Medium Upkeep
LU=Low Upkeep

Spoiler :

-Deleted Magistery, Excellence and Pawns


Lawmaking:


-Despotism HU: +1 unhappy/city; +50% war weariness

-Royal Family LU: +100% culture and espionage in capital.

-Oligarchy MU: +1 specialist/city +3 culture/specialist +25% war weariness

-Theocracy MU: Unlimited priest, No temples are required to build disciples (you still can build temples of course); -25% war weariness; +1 unhappy/ non state religion.

-Assembly MU: +50% hammers and gold in capital; +25% war weariness; As introduced in Orbis modmod for Republic, Periodical elections events.

-Code LU: +3 happiness/city (largest ones) -25% war weariness; +25% culture in all cities.

Executive:


-Barbarism LU

-Free cities LU: NO city maintenance; -20% military production; +1 unhappy/ military unit stationed in the city.

-Bureaucracy HU: +75% number of cities maintenance modifier; Improvements (Cottages) upgrade +50% faster; +25% worker speed

-Adhocracy LU: -75% number of cities maintenance; +2 health/city; Can hurry with gold; +1 unhappy/city

-Vassalage LU: +5 free of upkeep units; +20% free of upkeep units according to your population.

-Empire: MU: +6 experience/ unit; +2 experience/ unit build in a city with state religion; +1 gold upkeep for each unit; +50% war weariness; +20% gold income

Social Structure:

-Tribalism LU

-Apprenticeship LU: -25% GPP; -25% corporation maintenance; +1 hammer/ workshop; +2 hammer and -1 wealth/ town

-Slavery LU: Can hurry with population; +25% enslavement chance.

- Colectives HU: No corporations; No foreign trade; +25% hammers and food, -100% wealth from trade routes (means for trade routes of original income of at least +4 wealth, you get +1 hammer and food instead, for routes of +8, double) ; +2 happiness and health from Grove; +1 happiness and helth from elder council.

-Feudalism LU: -1 food, +2 wealth/farm

-Crusade: Untouched

-Caste System MU: -25% GPP; Unlimited Artist, Merchant, Scientist, Priest.

-Meritocracy HU: +50% GPP


Economy:

-Oportunism LU -1 trade routes

- Rural Based LU: +1 food, -1 wealth/farm; -1 trade routes.

- Tolls and Permits MU: +1 wealth from hamlet/village; +2 wealth, -1 hammer from town.

-War Economy HU: +25% military production, +3 free of upkeep units; +10% free of upkeep units based upon your population;Military units produced with food.; -1 trade routes; -25% wealth from trade routes.

-Classic Capitalism LU: -25% corporation maintenance; +1 trade routes; +1 coastal trade routes.

-Mercantilism: HU: +25% corporation maintenance; No foreign corporations; -1 trade routes; +50% wealth income from trade routes.

Dominant Values:

-Brotherhood LU.

- Leadership LU: -25% GPP; +50% great general emergence; +2 happiness from palace; +1 happiness from summer and winter palace.

-Utilitarism HU: +1 happiness from multiple buildings. Total happiness of +11 if all the buildings are built.

-Entrepreneurship MU: Unlimited Merchant; +1 gold/specialist; +2 wealth from workshop; +10% gold income.

-Knowlege HU: +25% GPP; +10% science income; +1 science and culture/specialist; +1 happy from library and academy; +25% war weariness; -15% military production. (I know, overpowered).

-Contribution LU: +2 health/city; +1 happines from state religion; No non state religion spread; -75% war weariness.

-Public Order HU: +1 happy/military unit; allows to conscript units; +1 happy from courtshouse and basilica; +20% spionage income; +50% war weariness.

-Freedom LU: +50% culture in all cities; +2 happy in all cities; -50% war weariness; Makes neighbours' citizens jealous; Unlimited artist; +3 unhealthiness.

There are also religious civics in Orbis in a different branch, I think I left them untouched. At least, I changed Sacrifice the Weak name to Pawns and removed gpp penalty and science bonus income.
 
I have updated the files a bit. (FA01G) They are still used for patch A.

Besides updates that just handle civics, i have also added the mod i am using myself (FA01G+).
It also contain a small modification to the tech tree, a few small modification of traits, a new forest improvement system for the elves, and a little steal of new elohim buildings.
 
And StW, by removing all the weak people you increase their nativity, didn't work for the spartans.

Oh ... it so very, very worked for the Spartans.

The Spartans even eventually won the Pelloponesian Wars! Of course, you could say that the Spartans culture couldn't really survive since it was such a totalitarian war state, very brutal. Spartans were the best warriors, but unfortunately being a badass isnt always the best for the history books, since, unlike the romans or the Athenians, they did not have a desired culture. There "culture" was pure warrior caste, would of probably resembled the schoolgrounds of the soldierlings in a society based off of Aristotle's "the Republic."

The problem is that the Spartan methodology is so strict and exacting, its kind of hard to spread it to other peoples. On the other hand, cultures admiring money and "pretty rocks" architecture, play more to most people's basic draw factors, therefore making for a more spreadable culture. The Spartan way of life may have been more accepted if it was tied to some Monotheistic religion, then it could of lasted far longer, and been even fanatically accepted by some converts. Of course, even this would of worn down overtime until all cultures devolve into the Megalomaniocracy and the Mammonacracy.

However, Spartans have nothing to do with the civic Sacrifice the Weak. There is no help given to those in need and no food held over for the poor. Basically you make money or you die, therefore only the productive people survive. Sure, those unproductive people could be rehabilitated, like in the sun sphere, and once they have turned a new leaf they could be just as productive or moreso than their peers. However, that is a Lugus thing. In the world of Agares, either they will die in Despair and Starvation, or they will turn to using whatever means to survive and get ahead, maybe they have to eat rats for awhile, maybe they ambush a blind person and eat them. The point is, there is no room for weakness, and theirfore the society is more effiecient as a whole. Also, the society is much more dangerous and mean. It should probably increase crimerates, although given the nature of the veil, criminals not sanctioned by the state would probably be hunted down by demons rather fast. And if they are not killed, tortured, or raped by the demons ... the archmages, summoners and Ritualists will use them for experiments. Even if their bodies are too boring for them to be put to much use, they can always be turned into skellingtons or corpses. Point is, Sacrifice the Weak is a type of evil that goes far beyond "fend for themselves" and its not the selective birthing or child selection that the Spartans use. It would allow a deformed baby to grow up into an ugly merchant or mage, as long as he or she could be productive, and or get use out of people before killing them. In the end, the need for food is far less. You can also look at it as an increased integration of demons into society. And demons of course do not need to eat. They just kill people. For fun.
 
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