Prince Attempt - Looking for Guidance

i recently made the move to prince and i fell behind on the prince clique games. i'm playing the joao game whose thread has gone dead. in the hope of gaining some feedback nonetheless i'm posting this with a very detailed blow by blow of how i made decisions as the game went along.

this is my 3rd prince attempt. the first was fairly disastrous, the second a bit better but i flat-lined in the middle ages. it isn't obvious to me what i need to do to get better since so many things are situational so i thought perhaps giving a diary of sorts might help.

i admit this is very detailed and maybe not super interesting to many but any feedback would be welcome. i'm posting the early part of the game as Part I if you will. it's up to 750 BC.

tech progression

sailing > bronze working > masonry > wheel > mysticism > polytheism > priesthood > pottery > metal casting (oracle) > writing > hunting > archery > ah > agriculture

__________



initial thoughts

wow, a lot of water. i'm not good at this. this is going to be a challenge. i think about moving north at first to maximize the seafood. i move my warrior south and realize just how small the island is. i see now way i can get all the resources ideally placed for two cities so settling in place makes sense.

i'm new to prince, my first couple attempts have ended in retirements. i know i should avoid wonder-addiction but i'm thinking this map really lends itself to 3 wonders in particular:

1. great lighthouse
2. colossus
3. oracle ( i have marble)

i like building stonehenge so i can skip monuments but i don't have stone and 3 wonders is already probably too many. i will definitely avoid stonehenge and i think i will go for the oracle / metal casting colossus slingshot. i seem to do better with an economy based around commerce and this should help.

what to build first

workboat - i'd like the city to get to size 2 so i can work three tiles for more commerce. then i can pop a worker and go for bronzeworking.

technology

sailing seems a no brainer. i've already "explored" the entire island.

i hit Enter alot

turn 10

workboat is in and i put in on one of the clams. city is one turn from growing, drat. i can't start a worker now that seems wasteful. i guess i'll start something then abandon it in one turn. it only wastes 2 hammers which is annoying but i figure losing 2 hammers is worth getting a worker out to chop sooner. i want a settler to hook up the marble then try for the oracle / metal cast slingshot.

turn 12

sailing is in. i switch to bronze working to be ready to chop. i swtich city tiles to focus on commerce. it makes the worker come one turn later but he'll still pop before bw and i get bw one turn sooner so that seems to make sense.

turn 14

buddhism is founded in a distant land. i decide my nickname for the early part of this game is "Enter Key".

turn 21

worker is ready. 2 turns until chop ready, will make one mine first, i start on another workboat. slavery comes soon and food is good.

turn 23

bw & slavery are in, i revolt to switch. i go for masonry for quarry. i'll need wheel for the road as well.. not sure the order mattered here.

turn 24

i whip the 2nd workboat and will use overflow on a galley.

turn 26

i'm ready to begin chopping, the mine is done.

turn 31

first chop done, begin 2nd. lisbon hits size 3, i whip to complete galley and will use overflow on a settler. masonry is in and i go for the wheel.

turn 35

i whip lisbon back down to 1 to finish settler. i will use overflow for a worker. i reach the island to the south of me with galley and begin to circle it.

somewhere in here i switch to mysticism. i'm beelining priesthood now. i WILL win the oracle race .

turn 38

i meet sury to the southwest of me. wow, i won't have much room to expand and i should rush another city onto this island to land grab before he does. can i do this and follow my wonder plan? i'm not sure. my 2nd worker moves south towards my 2nd city. i can't decide if i'll build my city on the swestern most tip or on the marble. i feel like there's no good place for the 2nd city. on the marble would be better for getting the fish but the city wants badly for production. sw of the marble really sucks all around. i miss out on the one hill tile, i miss the seafood. i decide to settle on marble which loses me commerce but hopefully if my gambit works the colossus will have been worth it.

i also now realize that maybe i didn't need the wheel since i don't need to build a road to the quarry. i'm pretty sure i need masonry to take addvantage of the marble although if that isn't the case i wasted two early techs.

turn 39

oporto founded. i start on a lighthouse. it has a warrior and i should let it grow some. i'm certain i'll whip this before it's actually done.

turn 44

mysticism in, polytheism next. lisbon needs to grow faster. i want another settler out to land grab sury's island before he takes the corner of it south of me. i keep the galley exploring even though i'm tempted to move back to ferry across a settler that is coming soon. can i fit this in before i start on the oracle? i don't think sury's border will pop again and block me off from the mainland so i keep exploring.

turn 45

i meet the japanese. they are southeast of sury, more or less due south of me. i decide i will let lisbon grow to 3 so i can go settler and whip hopefully before i start on the oracle. i'm still chopping with both workers. i realize now that maybe i didn't need 2 what with my settling on the marble and all. i realize i can go no further south as japan's borders block me. this is fine i may want to head back to do a settler ferry service anyway.

turn 48

lisbon hits size 3. the lighthouse is done on the same turn.(so nice - wish i could have claimed that i planned this). i start on a settler. i plan to whip this when it costs one. i'll use the overflow on a warrior. this will be within a turn of priesthood then i will go for the oracle. i decide to hold off chopping and build two mines and then chop the trees for the oracle. afterall i don't need the settler really any faster.

turn 51 (1960 BC)

i'm the third most advanced civ (for what that is worth). i whip the lighthouse in oporto. overflow will go to a workboat.

turn 54

i'm one turn from priesthood and whip gets me the warrior for garrison. i whip lisbon down to 2 to pop warrior and will go for the oracle. i begin chopping in prep.

turn 55

priesthood is in. now classic me i realize i have no idea what my tech path is after priesthood. i decide on pottery. granaries are good with joao and good with slavery. i start on the oracle.

turn 58

oporto pops a workboat. i start on a monument which i'm certain to whip. i'll have the oracle in 4 turns *fingers crossed*. my galley with a settler and warrior is headed south for the land grab/block.

turn 60

pottery is in. i'm really unsure what to do next. i decide to go for writing as i can open borders with sury although war with him seems inevitable. i'm tempted to go for archery to bang out some units to protect myself. i have no copper, don't know about horses so that could be scary.

I WIN THE ORACLE RACE!! - woo. i take metal casting and will start on a forge.

i'm tempted to go for the glh but no sense in wasting the attempted gambit now. i go for the forge and switch to max food for growth as i plan to whip it out.

i found guimares on the new island to the south and begin on a granary.

turn 66

sury offers open borders the same turn that i get writing. i take this as an indication that we are teching at a similar speed. i'm nervous about a divided empire with no metal to build axes. i could go for ag > ah and hope for horses but that could come up empty. i decide even though i'm tempted to target alphabet to go hunting > archery.

turn 67

i meet sitting bull. we open borders. i realize i suck and didn't immediately open borders with japan. i try to and learn that even though we are +1 that he won't open borders. this i feel is cheap on the part of the ai although maybe not opening borders at +1 is normal. his not opening borders blocks my ability to explore. oh well, he's trying to win too i suppose.

i hurry the granary in oporto and go for another settler. i want to rex out the last part of the land in the northeast corner of this island. better yet maybe i could for to the island near where tokyo is due south of me. then again being that spread out with no metal resource... i decide against this. i will go for another close city.

i debate giving up 2 population to finish the forge. this gets me the forge but reduces hammers until i can regrow. i decide if you can whip, whip and knock it out. lisbon's population is 2.

turn 68

the overflow in oporto gives me a warrior and it will grow the next turn and then i can start on a settler. perfect timing yet again that i had no part in planning. thank you lady luck. i'm cottaging all my river tiles now as i have little else to do with my workers.

forge is in in lisbon and i start on the colossus ( 34 turns - ouch). i hope that last forest counts in lisbon and not oporto i don't understand those rules. it's equidistant from both. it turns out to count in lisbon ( yay!)

turn 70

my galley is on it's way back to take a worker over to the new island. it will also bring the settler / warrior when they are ready. hunting is in, archery is in the works. i whip out the granary in guimares ( lone island city ). i begin on a monument.

archery is in and i go animal husbandry. i'm really starting to be unsure of what to tech. i go ah in the hope i'll reveal horses and because i can build a pasture near lisbon. my last chop is done and i have 16 turns left for colossus. in 5 turns i'll get another good hammer tile so i estimate about 12 turns. if i accomplish the goal i identified on turn 1 i'll be very happy.

turn 73

i whip the settler for one pop in oporto. the galley is one move away ( luck once again). i can now pick up the settler + garrison and move them into 4th city position. judaism is founded. i have not met whoever is founding these religions as no one has state religion yet.

turn 74

oporto starts on a galley. i need a 2nd galley to do nothing but explore while i keep my shuttle ship around. i'm tempted to start going for archers to get my power rating up and avoid dow but i really need the boat.

turn 76

i whip the monument in guirames. settler / warrior makes landfall to the south. i will settle on the desert tile. i can share the pigs with guirames and i pick up seafood. this map really sucks but i feel like i'm doing the best with what i can.

turn 77

ah is in. i swtich to agriculture since i have the corn on the southern island. no dice on the horses =(. yikes! i have to go iron working after ag and hope i guess.

turn 79

coimbra is founded. beakers take a hit as i lower science slider to 60 to offset maintenance. i need libraries i think. lisbon hits size 5 and takes it's last nice production tile - colossus is 7 turns away if i don't whip and i know i will. i've started on an archer in guimares. coimbra starts with a granary. i discover horses but they are on the island further south where i thought about settling but decided it was too far. i can't imagine i'll beat japan to this spot now. i have to cross my fingers for iron i guess.

oh sury has horses which is not good. his island looks reasonably sized so he likely has copper also.

turn 84

toku has grabbed the horses. he still won't open borders. luckily i can sail around him to another island and keep exploring. man i sure hope i have iron. i whip colossus. i probably could have whipped a turn earlier. another example of how i lose focus sometimes.

turn 85

sury demands i cancel deals with the native americans. sitting bull is typically a crappy ally as he dosen't tech worth a damn and he seems overly unfriendly. however sury is close and i can't avoid a war with this guy. i really don't want to provoke him but i figure long term i don't need him that happy and maybe i can do some early trades with sitting bull.

i am worried about him (sury) and dow but i think sury will do that at pleased as it is and my only way to prevent this is by pumping out archers i am going to decline his request.

THE COLOSSUS IS IN - woo, wonder race #2 has been won. i think this is a good time to stop.

turn 10

workboat is in and i put in on one of the clams. city is one turn from growing, drat. i can't start a worker now that seems wasteful. i guess i'll start something then abandon it in one turn. it only wastes 2 hammers which is annoying but i figure losing 2 hammers is worth getting a worker out to chop sooner. i want a settler to hook up the marble then try for the oracle / metal cast slingshot.

Click to expand...

Next time, work the 3 Hammer forested hill for the workboat. It gets the boat out ASAP and keeps the city at size 1 so it can make a worker. Also, if you need to "waste" a turn, build a wonder for 1 turn (if possible) and then just abandon it. More than likely, you'll get gold. If not, a warriow will do.

Also, for a map like this, I think the Great Lighthouse would be better than the Oracle/MC slingshot.

lisbon hits size 3. the lighthouse is done on the same turn.(so nice - wish i could have claimed that i planned this). i start on a settler. i plan to whip this when it costs one. i'll use the overflow on a warrior. this will be within a turn of priesthood then i will go for the oracle. i decide to hold off chopping and build two mines and then chop the trees for the oracle. afterall i don't need the settler really any faster.

Click to expand...

Whipping for 2 population is a lot more efficient than 1 pop, because in both cases, the unhappiness penalty is the same. Lisbon (the capital) has tons of food, so growing the city to size 4 (to allow 2 pop whips) is probably what I would have done.

i meet sitting bull. we open borders. i realize i suck and didn't immediately open borders with japan. i try to and learn that even though we are +1 that he won't open borders. this i feel is cheap on the part of the ai although maybe not opening borders at +1 is normal. his not opening borders blocks my ability to explore. oh well, he's trying to win too i suppose

Click to expand...

Tokugawa is the only AI in the game of Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword who requires a "Pleased" stance to have open borders.

Lastly, judging from the screenshots, you haven't "boated" the third clam in Lisbon.

You're doing fine so far. Keep playing, and posting your progress.

1) Why did you go Sailing first, especially if you weren't going to build a galley right away?

2) I would actually go Alphabet before Iron Working. The AIs tend to get it for you, and in my experience don't hold onto it as much. Now you'll have to research IW AND Alphabet since IW doesn't give you the ability to trade. I mean, I would understand IW first if you needed to Sword rush someone, but it doesn't like you're in a position to do that on this map .

3) I wouldn't worry too much about a DOW this early in the game, especially on this sort of map. It's incredibly hard to launch an invasions with only Galleys, and the AI sucks at naval invasions as it is. I wouldn't have bothered with Hunting and Archery.

4) The Wheel was a bit unnecessary imo. You already had sailing, and most of your cities are going to be on the coast this map. I would've researched AH instead of the Wheel, especially with those pigs right next to Lisbon!

Good luck with the rest of your game, you've done great so far. I myself have just recently had my first victory on Prince, and now I'm getting pretty used to it(I actually popped Metal Casting from a hut in my last game, no need for the Oracle xD). Keep us posted.

civver_764 said:

4) The Wheel was a bit unnecessary imo. You already had sailing, and most of your cities are going to be on the coast this map. I would've researched AH instead of the Wheel, especially with those pigs right next to Lisbon!

Click to expand...

Although I see what you are saying about wheel not being a high priority, The Wheel is a pre-req for pottery and cottages.

EDIT: @ I<3PWG: Although, with delaying AH, you should have mined the pigs in the capitol BFC before shipping your workers to the other island.

NPM

NonPrayinMantis said:

Although I see what you are saying about wheel not being a high priority, The Wheel is a pre-req for pottery and cottages.

Click to expand...

Fishing is also one of the pre-reqs, no?

Some other things that I see:

Has Great Lighthouse gone yet? If not, try to build it ASAP! That wonder is by far the best one on this type of map.

You can settle a city on the easternmost plain on that 2 plains island south of your "main" island. Workshop the other plains, boat the clams, and use that southern clams to grow the city and whip a LH, gran, forge and temple, in that order. This city will be small, but will add to your empire.

Workshop that grassland SW of Oporto for more hammers there. I would not chop the two grassland forests on the southern island, but mine and/or chop the grass/hills there for hammers. You could also chop jungle and workshop (not the pigs) some of the grasslands there instead of cottaging. Hammers are in short supply on maps like this, and commerce is much easier to come by.

Note that until the Japanese city pops its borders, you can sneak around the city to explore that plains island off in the fog. Send the galley E-SE-SE-NE to get to the island. You might even go back to Coimbra to pick up the warrior to use it for further scouting of Sury's lands - you can sneak in behind what is likely Yadsopahura (sp?) and land on that unowned plains. Heck, you could even pick up the archer in the other city there and use it for exploration. You don't have to worry much about attack at this point from land barbs or the AI.

NPM

civver_764 said:

Fishing is also one of the pre-reqs, no?

Click to expand...

Yeah, but his civ starts with that. Also, pottery is a pre-req for metal casting, necessary for his strategy, so he should have gotten that anyway.

@I<3PWG: Don't sweat getting masonry and the wheel - they were necessary to your strategy. Plus, you are all set for a Great Lighthouse build. The only techs you could have skipped were hunting and archery.

For your next tech I would suggest either Alphabet and/or Aesthetics. Temple of Artemis is not that good of a wonder, but on this map, and with marble already, it can be OK.

NPM

here's part II and then i want to reply back to some of the great comments thus far:

thoughts heading into round 2

happiness caps are lower in prince than i am used to. i don't see any happiness resources around. i'm going to need to prioritize monarchy. i need to finish iron working to hopefully reveal some metal. however i may find none ( likely really ) so i need a fall back. i think i will knock out a settler / archer combo and go exploring the ocean for metal. this means code of laws may be real important as those maintenance costs will be bad. i'm already hanging on at 60% with 4 cities.

i probably need to continue to expand. i know the "land is power" mantra by mid-game. expanding will be hard but i need to do what i can.

i hope japan founds a religion so i can convert to it and get those borders opened.

my biggest fear is dow from sury. he's got horses, probably has metal ( i need to explore his land and confirm ) and he's real close.

turn 86

i whip out a granary in lisbon since i know 2 population is the better time to whip ( thank you ). it grows immediately to 3 on the next turn and i start a library. i figure i need to run a scientist to hopefully pop a GS. toku has spread to islands such that i can't continue to explore and risk getting boxed in by his borders if i don't immediately turn around.

turn 87

i move my warrrior in guimares into sury's territory. he has a nice capital. he does not have a stack of offensive units in his capital. he just has two archers. he has lots of food but he's left his forests unchopped. that's a scary thought. he could put put a stack of offensive units in a heartbeat if he wanted to. have not found metal yet.

turn 88

i whip a lighthouse in guimares and will use overflow for another archer ( keep generating power). i start a settler in oporto. sury has not expanded too far yet. he may have only two cities. have not found the 2nd yet. do not yet see that he has metal.

i'm tempted to go for the glh but it's probably too late. perhaps i should go for it when the library is done in lisbon.

turn 89 i whip a settler in oporto for 2 population. galley is in place to load up and find metal *fingers crossed*. i find sury's 2nd city. he just founded a 3rd to the west it seems. so far no metal and his cities are poorly defended. - single warrior in one, two archers in the other.

turn 90

i start a trireme in oporto. this may be a waste but i'm so dependant on seafood in this game that one barbarian galley could wipe me out. happiness problems are everywhere. i really need monarchy. iron working is 2 turns away. i have my boat ready to go if i don't have any metal. if it do, all the better.

turn 91

coimbra finishes a granary and starts on a monument. settler / archer combo is loaded into the boat. unless sury has copper in his city to the west he is without it. one turn until iron is revealed. i whip another archer in guimares.

turn 92

i trade clams for sheep with sitting bull. sitting bull is moderately useful for the first time in my short history of playing this game. coimbra whips it's monument. it too will focus on archers for awhile.

turn 93

NOW THINGS LOOK BAD

i do not have iron. sury has iron on one of his hills where he already has a mine and a road - spiffy. i'm in a world of hurt if my boat can't find metal out there somewhere. i head for monarchy as i need the happiness bonus.

turn 95

i decide i will go for the glh - i can make it in lisbon in 14 turns. i probably don't get it but i can use the money if i fail. sury has 3 cities. he could easily fit one more. he's not producing units very fast. in fast i'm unsure what he's doing period. i guess he built a lot of buildings?

turn 97

i pop a great prophet (meh). i can bulb polytheism ( seems near worthless ). i could start a golden age? i could settle. i'm not sure what i should do for now i'm going to bank him. maybe i'll get confucianism or taoism and build a shrine.

turn 99

i whip another archer in guimares. i think about a barracks and then realize these units are purely to pump power rating. i'm not attacking with archers. i will continue to pump them out and hope i find metal. the good news - i find another island west of sury that he hasn't settled. it's desert with incense so far but maybe it has copper / iron. lisbon will soon grow and i hope be able to work one more tile. (wish i understood happy mechanics better ). 12 turns to glh - not thinking my chances are too good. trireme was whipped in oporto, it starts on a library. the trireme moves to defend lisbons seafood. i move an archer to lisbon from my southern isle.

turn 100

the new population is lisbon is unhappy =(. but in 4 turns the whip anger is over and i should get 4 more hammers then. that will give me a better shot at glh. the island west of sury has a hill ( there could be iron in those there hills) i'll know next turn.

turn 101

i am losing money at 60% =(. i am the 2nd most culture civ. unknown is first. i'm thinking good ol' unknown is the one popping out religions in seclusion. the world i've met is godless. i find another hill on the island but no metal. there's still another to uncover. sury builds his first swordsman and menaces me with a chariot right along our border.

i whip a library in oporto.

turn 103

IT'S GETTING BETTER ALL THE TIME

there's is COPPER in those thar hills. i'm about to take a maintenance cost beatdown but i have no choice. i plan to settle right on it placement be damned. sury is beginnig to build offensive units - 2 chariots, 1 sword. i need axes and spears to counter. doing some quick math i've seen 2 chariots / 1 sword 3 archers or so and some warriors. he's low 20's in power. i have 8 archers 3 warriors and a few boats ( do they count ). we have near equal power. i think that's enough to keep him at bay.


turn 104

the maintenance costs are crippling. i have to lower to 40% science. i have to do it though. i move again in sury's territory and he has 4 chariots. he's aiming to attack without question. it's really nice to see those axeman / spearman icons light up. my first focus will be spearman. the axes can come later. monarchy feels an eternity away now 7 turns and code of laws with be 24 OUCH!!! after that.

two things can happen though. i may lose the glh race and get money where i could run a deficit or i'll get the trade routes which will help and i'll free up lisbon for production to spam units. i'm not sure what else i can do. i had to take that metal. i was going to get my clock cleaned if i didn't. i whip an archer in guimares so i can start on spearman. i also whip a workboat in coibra for the same reason. these cities really hate my oppression but little do they know i'm staving off being overrun.

turn 105

lisbon's whip unhappiness goes away and it smartly choose the mine which i wanted. i'm not 4 turns from the glh. maybe i will get it. sury is actually not stacking up his chariots but spreading them out. maybe he isn't planning an attack imminently. i still want some spears before i work on axes. monarchy is close ( 4 turns ).

my economy is getting worse ( i'm not clear on why this is ). i'm now done to 20% science. this is ugly. i hope a scientist in lisbon will offset this.

turn 107

i whip the glh for 2 population in lisbon. i guess i will get it. 3 cities - oporto / gumares / coibra are working on spearman. science still a pitiful 8 per turn at 20%.

turn 108

I get the GLH. My economy takes a huge turn upwards. i will never again underestimate this wonder on a water map. i can now run 50% science for 32 beakers and a 4 gold per turn surplus. i meet our next ai - ragnar. he seems really weak which is disappointing. i would think a financial leader run by the ai who loves cottage spam would be better. he is also godless. i like the idea of him as a tech partner but sadly at the moment he appears to suck. i open borders anyway.

i trade metal casting to sury for alphabet. i'm not sure if i should do this but metal casting doesn't give him a big military edge right away and not researhing alphabet will allow me to go for COL without hestitation.

turn 109

sury and i are pretty even tech-wise i think. toku is in the same ballpark. ragnar is hopeless. sitting bull has only polytheism to trade which of course he won't because he's sitting bull. no one else has resources worth a damn. sury completes the great wall. i decide i can afford a barracks in lisbon as the power graph looks pretty even. i could use some promoted axes eventually. spears are whipped in coimbra and guimares.

turn 110

monarchy is in and i revolt to switch. sury's chariots are mia and appear to have scattered. is it possible he's decided he wants to attack toku? we're all pretty much even in terms of power.

turn 111

i whip the barracks in lisbon. happiness in general is looking much better. guimares loathes me. whip anger outpaces "it's too crowded" a sure fire sign that you're a despotic bastard. no wait i'm a kingly bastard now. i find sury's chariots again. apparently he's running the move military units in pointless circles around your own land defense.

turn 112

sury has stacked a few units in his southern most city and has left his capital largely undefended. he does have chariots running parades through the unchopped forest as i mentioned earlier. i'm a bit embarassed that i was afraid of this guy for so long.

sitting bull cancels our deal sheep for clams because he's a douche as a usual. toku has currency but won't trade it. sury has nothing i don't have. ragnar has horseback riding but won't trade it. we are still godless. i may end up founding col. either that or sury is working on it. either way we are likely to hit 1 ad with no religion. i don't think i've ever seen this. the top city in the world is "unknown" but that civ has birthed hinduism / buddhism & judaism.

1 AD - Turn 115

i'm beginning to pump out axes. i decide guimares will go for unpromoted units while coimbra knocks out a barracks. it looks reasonable that i may found confucianism. i believe it will pop in my last settled city which will naturally be the copper grab as far from everything as possible. so much for religion spreading naturally... ah well

it's a good time to stop.

a shot of the power graph ( i staved off invasion with no metal - go me )

civver_764 said:

1) Why did you go Sailing first, especially if you weren't going to build a galley right away?

Click to expand...

great point. i think this had to do with not being a real good player. i should have gone bw first.

2) I would actually go Alphabet before Iron Working. The AIs tend to get it for you, and in my experience don't hold onto it as much. Now you'll have to research IW AND Alphabet since IW doesn't give you the ability to trade. I mean, I would understand IW first if you needed to Sword rush someone, but it doesn't like you're in a position to do that on this map .

Click to expand...

here i'm not sure i agree. if i don't have any metal and sury does that was going to be bad for me i think. i felt i had to know asap if i had metal. honestly i really wanted alphabet but there was always something just a bit more important.

3) I wouldn't worry too much about a DOW this early in the game, especially on this sort of map. It's incredibly hard to launch an invasions with only Galleys, and the AI sucks at naval invasions as it is. I wouldn't have bothered with Hunting and Archery.

Click to expand...

sury could take two of my cities without building boats and essentially end my game. if i were on a separate island i would be less worried but my sense was that dow comes faster on prince and it seemed i should do everything to avoid becoming a "soft target"

4) The Wheel was a bit unnecessary imo. You already had sailing, and most of your cities are going to be on the coast this map. I would've researched AH instead of the Wheel, especially with those pigs right next to Lisbon!

Click to expand...

it wasn't a bit unnecessary it was a straight up f$%k up. ( you didn't have to be nice ) i was thinking i need a road to hook up the marble when in fact i planned to settle on it. chalk that up to the not being real good yet thing.

Good luck with the rest of your game, you've done great so far. I myself have just recently had my first victory on Prince, and now I'm getting pretty used to it(I actually popped Metal Casting from a hut in my last game, no need for the Oracle xD). Keep us posted.

Click to expand...

thanks a million for the helpful feedback. i hope you'll stay tuned for parts II and beyond.

NonPrayinMantis said:

Some other things that I see:

Has Great Lighthouse gone yet? If not, try to build it ASAP! That wonder is by far the best one on this type of map.

You can settle a city on the easternmost plain on that 2 plains island south of your "main" island. Workshop the other plains, boat the clams, and use that southern clams to grow the city and whip a LH, gran, forge and temple, in that order. This city will be small, but will add to your empire.

Workshop that grassland SW of Oporto for more hammers there. I would not chop the two grassland forests on the southern island, but mine and/or chop the grass/hills there for hammers. You could also chop jungle and workshop (not the pigs) some of the grasslands there instead of cottaging. Hammers are in short supply on maps like this, and commerce is much easier to come by.

Note that until the Japanese city pops its borders, you can sneak around the city to explore that plains island off in the fog. Send the galley E-SE-SE-NE to get to the island. You might even go back to Coimbra to pick up the warrior to use it for further scouting of Sury's lands - you can sneak in behind what is likely Yadsopahura (sp?) and land on that unowned plains. Heck, you could even pick up the archer in the other city there and use it for exploration. You don't have to worry much about attack at this point from land barbs or the AI.

NPM

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well sadly it's a bit too late as i chopped those forests. can you explain more why i should not have?

i did go for the GLH. you can read all about it in part II and continue to give me helpful advice. =)

I<3PWG said:

well sadly it's a bit too late as i chopped those forests. can you explain more why i should not have?

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Well, both of those forests were in the BFCs of both of those two cities on that small island. This would give a health bonus to both cities. But the main reason for not chopping them was to conserve hammer-giving tiles. Grassland workshops give 11 with no bonus while grassland forest gives 21. These tiles could have increased the hammers of the cities for a long time.

NPM

Part III 1 to 500 AD

thanks for the comments thus far. really hoping some folks are still interested in posting some feedback. we are approaching the period of the game where my game play often goes south.

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Opening Thoughts

i definitely want to wipe out sury but i also don't want it to last too long. i don't have catapults and don't want to wait for them. i'm unsure how many axes i'll need but i'd prefer to rush him out quickly and not one city at a time. i'm pretty sure i have him pretty well landlocked by taking part of the island west of him.

i'd like to add a city on the two tile island near my capital. i could add another on the island west of sury but for now i want a healthy economy given i'm headed into war.

i plan to keep my great prophet banked and will build the confucian shrine assuming i found it. i think i get a free missionary if i do which i think i'll bring back to my capital. i can't get it into japan or the viking land which would be nice so my capital seems the next best thing. building a monastery there will help science.

turn 117

sury has moved a settler to the island to the west. this is no surprise. he has nowhere else to go. i start a settler in lisbon to take the little island. i whip the baracks in coimbra. i will get a barracks in guirames next.

turn 120

agressively whipping axes in my barracks towns on the southern island. cities still look relatively poorly defended but there are a number of chariots / axes wandering around. there is also another settler although i'm not sure he can build another city. i'm 1 turn from COL and will found our first religion i believe. i quickly whipped out a settler archer to expand to the small island southeast of lisbon.

turn 121

col is in, i found confucianism. i catch a break and it's on the southern mainland in coimbra. i decide to beeline literature. i'm hoping i can take sury without cats and with my marble can knock out the great library for a great science boost in lisbon. it looks like sury's capital ( the y one) can be a nice production city which should free lisbon up to go science. hopefully this war won't prove harder than i'm estimating.

turn 123

sitting bull asks me to cancel my vikings deals. i decline they both are weak but i feel like ragnar is more likely to be useful later. it turns out ragnar has math and horse but won't trade. i gift him clams. maybe i can get a relationship going. unfortunately he's pleasde with toku and sury.

turn 124

costs have shot up and i have to lower science to 40%. i switch to courthouses on all cities finishing up axes. i didn't want to do this prewar but i can't go bankrupt right now. i'm wondering how long i should wait to move. i'm worried my conservatism may be getting the best of me.

turn 126

confucianism spreads to japan. this could be good. i'm moving my final units across the river and plan to strike very soon. i wish those courthouses would come faster.

turn 128

confucianism spreads to guimares. i'm moving the prophet into place to get my shrine. nearly ready to start my march. i move my warrior back to add to happiness in guimares once troops leave. courthouses still can't be whipped. i have a ton of whip hate everywhere.

turn 129

confucianism spreads into angkor something. that shrine is looking better all the time. last axes is in place. march will start next turn.

turn 128

toku offers 40 gold for mysticism. i take it. i'm about to take a -1 hit from declaring on his friend and frankly i could use the cash.

turn 130

i see a settler 2 away. i declare war. i whip a courthouse in oporto. i switch to confucianism as japan has switched. ragnar immediately declares war on me. i did not see this coming.

turn 132

i don't know if ragnar is dangerous really but i knock out another trireme in lisbon. i lose one axeman killing a swordsman ( meh ) as i move towards yura-such and such. i whip a courthouse in coimbra.

turn 133

i fail to realize that my copper is no longer hooked up as i am not friendly with sury. this is very very bad.

turn 135 i've taken yura-such and such but i'm feeling like this game is falling out of my control like every other prince game. i pop a great general. unsure what to do with him. i don't have a chariot to attach him to as i can't build them.

i have cut off sury's supply of iron by taking his capital. i have to hope at this point that i have enough to take his southern city. i will then have to wait for border pops to get access to iron and finish him off. i whip courthouse in guimares. at this point i guess i can pop archers for defense. i should also go after math and get cats as this would appear to be my only offensive option now. aesthitics is one turn away.

given that i've taken away sury's iron and horses all he can build is archers and cats and i expect he'll mostly stack archers. i think this means i will need cats to take out his cities, particularly the one that is on a hill. i probably need to divert from the literature path to get math / construction. knock out cats while i wait for access to iron. then i can finish sury off and figure out what to do from there.

i also popped a great merchant which i'm not sure how to use. i could build currency or start a golden age or settle. i'm banking him for now. i've also still got my missionary which i think i'll put in yury. perhaps i could stack the GG into yura and make that my production / military city.

science is running low-ish. it's 500 AD good enough time to stop.