NL-01 : Art of War

Rift

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
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I'm new to the forums and this whole SG concept, so I hope I'm doing this right.

NL-01 : Art of War

Purpose: To provide a fun, learning experience for Noble/Prince level players so that they can take their game to the 'Next Level'.

Focus: Military strategy and tactics. All things to do with warfare including deployment, research, pillaging, offense, defense and unit promotions (I always get indecisive about this). Hence, we'll be aiming for a Conquest or Domination Victory.

Settings:

Version - BtS 3.19
Map - Pangaea
Size - Standard
Speed - Epic
Difficulty - Monarch
Leader - Gilgamesh

Roster FULL
1. Rift
2. Shearer9
3. Dr Yes
4. The Oakster
5. White Dragon
6. pholkhero

Alternate: Mikeda
 
I'd be in on this, I actually considered doing one myself a few days ago but I'm happy to let you run it. It would also be nice to have a few vets in here helping us out, I know I'm a pretty poor warrior early in the game.
 
Yeah, I can handle early wars on Noble, but on Prince...just when I thought I've got the advantage, the war starts getting protracted for too long and the AI manages to build up more units for its defense.
 
I can't join (already involved in 3 SG's) but will be glad to check in and offer thoughts and such. I'm currently playing emperor level with a little success.
 
I am in over my head with 4 SGs at the moment, so I can't join, but I would be glad to offer advice to you as well.

I consider myself an Emperor player and with my experience in certain SGs (read aCK-2 for a great example) I think I can give some good advice for a Prince level game.

I encourage lurkers to join in...I know that I was overwhelmed with the process of an SG at first.
Now after a handful of them I feel (up for debate :D) like a pro.

p.s. you should clarify the patch that you are planning on using for this game.
 
I'd like to join, can definitely use some military skills.

From Silk03 I would recommend Cyrus: Imperialistic and Charismatic are great military traits. Also, if you get lucky with horses, the early UU is very strong.
 
You mean the Immortals? Heard of their awesome power before, though never got around to playing as Cyrus. Yeah, that should be fun!
 
I am interested in joining this. Not done one before and its at a level higher than I normally play but eager to learn from the discussions.

As for settings and Leader, I am easily pleased and will go with what ever :D I havent played BtS long enough to have a preference.
 
I would actually suggest NOT choosing Cyrus. It makes warring too easy if you have horses and overall it doesn't represent what you would normally face in a game. My personal opinion is to let the leader be selected randomly. I would roll a start and post a screenshot and the save and start the discussion. The first turns of a game usually turn out to be the most critical so they merit the most discussion.
 
I would actually suggest NOT choosing Cyrus. It makes warring too easy if you have horses and overall it doesn't represent what you would normally face in a game. My personal opinion is to let the leader be selected randomly. I would roll a start and post a screenshot and the save and start the discussion. The first turns of a game usually turn out to be the most critical so they merit the most discussion.

Don't make it too difficult on yourselves. If you are stepping up to a higher level AND you want to experience the ins and outs of warfare, then choose a leader whom you feel comfortable with. Suppose you draw Gandhi? That's not going to provide the learning experience.

This would be my list of the usual suspects:

Huayna: if you want to investigate the quechua rush
Julius Casar: same, but now with Praetorians
Alexander: tough fellow great for a Specialist Economy
Ragnar: combining aggressive with the overpowered Financial trait, fearful UU
Cyrus: as mentioned before

I'm happy to play any leader as to your liking. I'm comfortable at Monarch, now trying to survive on Emperor
 
I agree picking a random leader is not the way to go here.
No need to get stuck with a lousy leader.

I would add to Dr. Yes' list:

Shaka: Impis are good cheap pillagers and the expansive trait is great for producing a proper amount of workers for your empire.

My personal favorite civ is the Ottoman Empire:
Good UB that provides health and happy!
Good versatile UU that gets bonuses against all types of units.

Mehmed: Organized and Expansive are two economic traits that really help you keep costs down while providing building bonuses to workers, granaries, harbors, lighthouses, courthouses!, and factories.

Suleiman: Philo is a nice trait that I overlooked for the longest time!
It does tend to work better in a more peaceful setting but can be adapted to fit military needs.
Imperialistic is good early on for building settlers for the landgrab.
The increased GG bonus only really applies when you are defending your empire.
Most of the time you will be fighting outside of your cultural borders...or at least you should be!
Dr. Yes has more experience with this trait thanks to the Silk03 game he played in.

From experience I would avoid Toku...yes samurai are awesome but no economic traits makes it really hard on you.
 
The Ottoman Empire does look like a nice choice. We can wage early wars with default units, an experience that can be pretty much applied to any leader, while teching up to the Janissary for later, which is a pretty cool UU.

I'm leaning towards Mehmed at the moment. His traits will surely help us keep the economy from crashing down on us while we're out conquering other civs.

Suleiman seems suited for a more peaceful game yeah...only thing I can think of using Phil for military would be to try churn out GA's to instantly boost the culture of recently conquered cities.

Also, I've been getting comfortable with Prince lately, so everyone all right with Monarch? :D
 
The Ottoman Empire does look like a nice choice. We can wage early wars with default units, an experience that can be pretty much applied to any leader, while teching up to the Janissary for later, which is a pretty cool UU.
Yes, the Janissary is a Musketman with additional +25% against Archery, Mounted and Melee units. That is pretty strong.
Also, the UB comes a little earlier (available with Mathematics) and gives +2 happy, at a stage where happiness could be an issue. That is, when we don't have Pyramids and we are not under Hereditary Rule.
I'm leaning towards Mehmed at the moment. His traits will surely help us keep the economy from crashing down on us while we're out conquering other civs.

Suleiman seems suited for a more peaceful game yeah...only thing I can think of using Phil for military would be to try churn out GA's to instantly boost the culture of recently conquered cities.

Also, I've been getting comfortable with Prince lately, so everyone all right with Monarch? :D
I wouldn't aim the GPP at artists. There are better ways to boost the culture of new cities, in the end they end up in the middle of the empire and not at the front line, so the effect is only temporary and comes at a big cost.
Rather, I would use the PHI trait to boost research. Keep a tech advantage to enable better military than the AI, and that makes battling much easier.
Mehmet is EXP and ORG, traits that are geared towards health and economy. Suleiman is IMP and PHI. If we want to do a lot of battling, IMP is very useful (again, refer to Silk-03 for a game where we settled all GG in our HE city). So if the objective of this game is to learn more about warfare, I would rather use a leader with more war-like traits.

Also, there are some pretty useful articles in the war academy, for instance the one on Combat explained (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/combat_explained.php), and Sisiutils guides on early rushes (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/earlyrush.php) and stack composition (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/offensive_military_stack). These may provide nice weekend reads while we fill the roster.
 
And this is from the Unique Unit Guide:

Ottomans: Janissary (Musketman)

Warlords and BTS only. The Janissary’s advantage is a 25% boost against melee, archery and mounted units, making it a great all-round unit for its time. It is pretty much effective against all previous era units (with the big exception of siege units), so you can potentially put some serious hurt in your enemies.

In order to get as much use out of Janissaries as possible, you need to look for ways to get to Gunpowder early. You might even want to make a beeline for it, either through the northern path (Maths -> Currency -> Priesthood? -> Civil Service -> Paper -> Education) or the southern path (Metal Casting -> Machinery & Monotheism -> Monarchy -> Feudalism -> Guilds) in the tech tree. Different lightbulbing strategies are available (with Great Merchants for the southern path and Great Scientists for the northern one), so you don't have to self-research everything. Strictly speaking, it may not be necessary to do a beeline, but it's probably the best way. The point is to get to Gunpowder before your enemies are even close to it, and rapidly exploiting this opportunity gap by building, whipping and possibly drafting as many Janissaries as you can to use against them. To be able to draft, you would need to pursue the northern path and probably research Liberalism first to grab Nationalism as the free tech, before actually researching Gunpowder. It is a slight diversion, but it may be worth the delay if your empire does not have the capability to build or whip enough Janissaries in time to give you a real edge, as often is the case.

Once you have them, Janissaries are quite a fearsome force in the medieval battlefield. They have no hard counter, so the best bet your enemies might have is to promote their units with Pinch, which requires Gunpowder in Warlords. Knights with Pinch, however, are a good counter to Jannissaries, as are regular musketmen (against whom Janissaries have no advantage whatsoever), so once your enemies have Gunpowder as well you may find your edge disappearing. If they manage to get to Chemistry, which isn't that far away, this UU is practically obsolete. Janissary stacks are actually relatively vulnerable to siege units (and the associated collateral damage) as well, since they don't get any bonuses against these. But unless you're playing MP, this shouldn't be a big problem. The AI does not generally build many catapults.

Also take note that Janissaries may not be the best city-taking troops you can get, since they do not have access to City Raider promotions. Needless to say, if you're relying on them as the backbone of your army, you still need to bring siege weapons along if you hope to grab some enemy territory. Given the fact that they are not actually very different from the conduct of normal campaigns of the time, Janissary campaigns might still be slow going, so don't be surprised if you don't manage to knock out more than one enemy with them, even with your best efforts (assuming you're playing on the higher levels). Hence, the emphasis is again on getting them as early as possible so as to enlarge the window of opportunity that you have.

Overall, without the mobility of the Musketeer, this UU is quite situational and, to an even higher degree than the former, requires some long term planning in the early game to be put to good use. It is probably better the lower the difficulty you play on, since you would be more likely to out-tech the AIs and get to Gunpowder much earlier than them.

Makes me think that it is not that great of a UU. It comes late, and is obsolete as soon as the AI has Gunpowder. But I'm happy to try it if you think it could be fun:cool:
 
I am playing at noble at the moment but looking to move up. I am interested in seeing an early war as I can never seem to pull off the pop or chop rush adequately. Its the indepth discussion alongside the practical application that I am looking forward too.
 
Lurking:

Welcome to the forum White Dragon.

Not planning on playing, just interjecting the occasional unhelpful comment, such as: have you thought about Gilgamesh? Nice early UU, great early UB, creative is an excellent war-mongering trait.
 
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