SwordOfJustice
Chieftain
First of all, here is something that should be playing in the background while discussing the mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYa0jDIO0hc&feature=related
And these of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyGnuLfxBo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6W8HHfb7I&feature=related
There's been some posts about the back story for the mod. As I understand it, there was an apocalyptic event so the factions on the planet are in a primitive state.
This is fine as the mod is based on the Civ game which has a fun empire building basis. But I think some effort should be put into the background to make it "believeable" and fit into the Dune mythos. For me, the atmosphere and story of the books are fantastic and really something I would look for in a mod based on them.
The idea of an apocalyptic event is good in that it supports the game mechanics of researching tech and growing an empire. So how could this idea of fit into the Dune universe?
Well, as noted already, Frank Herbert's universe stretches through thousands of years. I propose that the mod is set before the events of the Dune book. Shall we say five hundred years? The Kwisatz Haderach is yet to happen, but all the main players which are in the mod are well established: House Harkonnen, House Atreides, the Bene Gesserit, etc.
If there have been plans by Kledath or others to have super units based on the Kwisatz Haderach or other content from Dune's timeline, these ideas could easily be adapted to 500 years earlier, I think.
The Bene Gesserit could be experimenting with an early attempt at their genetically bred super being. There could be prescience developed by hero figures in the noble houses.
There is one major impact of setting this mod 500 years before Dune in that you can't use the characters from the book. With a bit of patience, you could find alternate art and pictures for alternate leaders from this timeline in the past. Making up good names is very easy.
You could even still use graphic content from the movies and books. You could even use the pictures of the actors from Dune movie or TV series and give them alternate names. These are the ancestors of the protaganists in Dune!
So the main part of this proposal is to flesh out the Apocalyptic event which justifies the mod. I believe it should cause an interruption of normal space travel. This makes the factions on the planet very isolated. And helps to explain why so many technologies are missing.
Here is one idea: the Tleilaxu have unleashed a genetically engineered plague into human space. They only created it to use on a rival in a factional war but it has spread wildly. That rival was House Ordos. This is a nice tie in to having that faction present on planet in this mod.
House Ordos was from a computer game, but I like it and agree with including it. There must be many noble Houses in the Landsraad, House Harkonnen and House Atreides are but two of them.
The plague is beyond their control now and is devastating the universe. It has had an unfortunate side effect where it is especially lethal to Guild Navigators with their altered genetics. The Guild is desperately searching for a cure and has curtailed much space travel to protect their remaining navigators. The known universe is in utter chaos: worlds are starving and isolated with the reduction in space travel, there are riots and rebellions everywhere. The authority and position of all the ancient powers of the Imperium are under threat and they are deperately trying to deal with the situation.
The Guild would naturally seal their Navigators away in protected and safe environments, but they are still contracting this deadly and mysterious disease. Advanced stage Navigators have divined that the plagus is being actively spread by a faction of rogue Face Dancers, trying to destablise the status quo so they can advance their own agenda. They are proving extremely hard to track down, even by Bene Gesserit Truth Sayers.
Why is that? Well, let's exercise some creative freedom here. The rogue Face Dancers are being helped by some ex-Bene Gesserit renegades who have taught them how to shield their minds from Truthsayers.
Now back to Arrakis. The Padishah Emperor had already assigned CHOAM company directorships to several great Houses and charged them to mine spice on Arrakis. He is making them compete with each other to win the right for sole spice mining privileges, as was happening during the time period of Dune.
These Houses were all present when the plague took hold and are now mostly stranded on Arrakis. There are still Guild Liners coming to the planet as it is the place where the precious Spice is produced, but other offworld contact is limited.
The Fremen have always been here. The Bene Gesserit have a formal outpost on planet. The Emperor despatched the current Count Fenring, his most loyal and faithful servant, to oversee the joint operations of the noble Houses and keep an eye on them and ensure spice production was maintained.
I really like the idea of an offworld presence in this mod, a remote contact with the homeworlds of the factions. The ideas about the Apocalypse I'm proposing easily justify starting with no off world contact but regaining it by researching techs in the tech tree.
This idea of offworld contact should allow a player to buy the transport of advanced units from their homeworld, and should also allow population to come and migrate. Was this Koma's idea? Sorry, I am pressed for time so can't really trawl through all the posts again.
Payment should be made to the Guild faction. It should be quite expensive to ship units as they should be end game units that are powerful. Money which should come from the spice economy would take on even more meaning and value. And that's as it should be in a mod based on Frank Herbert's Dune universe.
The Guild could play out as follows under this proposal. They start with perhaps less on map presence than other players and lack some benefits in terms of their starting faction traits.
I also reckon that all faction should have unique powers or strengths in the mod. These would granted via traits, unique promotions, and unique unit types.
The Guild would perhaps miss some useful strengths other factions get, which help those survive and thrive on Dune. In return, they get:
- paid for off world shipments;
- ability to bring in low tech units in the early game from offworld; these are from other struggling Guild outposts in this local sector of space;
- because of shortages and the plague, they too have to mine spice onplanet though they normally wouldn't do that, normally relying on CHOAM;
- they gain more profit from spice production;
- they have no special military units, or perhaps only mobility based ones, but overall they should be a shade weaker than other factions;
- but they can use spice to hire smugglers and mercenaries, both local and off world;
- perhaps local smugglers can be the early game version of these troops, off world Guild troops could be mid game, and heavy off world mercs could be late game.
There are a lot of ideas in this post. What do you all think? I really do believe having a good back story is essential for this kind of mod. It can be kneaded like bread dough into the game play of the mod as it develops under the Civ engine. You are doing an amazing job of really customising Civ into something suitable to represent Dune! I love seeing the previews of the sandstorms, worms, and the Fedaykin on the forum.
I haven't played this mod yet as it seems in such constant flux, but I think I will download it tonight and make room on my HDDs to reinstall Civ4.
I am very heavily involved in writing a mod for another game so I have very little free time. But I love Dune, I love Civ, and I love mods! So I'm more than happy to contrbute a little bit. I could fairly easily write some background material, perhaps even write some civilopedia entries if you guys need that done.
I have some other ideas to contribute to the conversations and I'll post those soon.
Cheers,
Sword
And these of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyGnuLfxBo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6W8HHfb7I&feature=related
There's been some posts about the back story for the mod. As I understand it, there was an apocalyptic event so the factions on the planet are in a primitive state.
This is fine as the mod is based on the Civ game which has a fun empire building basis. But I think some effort should be put into the background to make it "believeable" and fit into the Dune mythos. For me, the atmosphere and story of the books are fantastic and really something I would look for in a mod based on them.
The idea of an apocalyptic event is good in that it supports the game mechanics of researching tech and growing an empire. So how could this idea of fit into the Dune universe?
Well, as noted already, Frank Herbert's universe stretches through thousands of years. I propose that the mod is set before the events of the Dune book. Shall we say five hundred years? The Kwisatz Haderach is yet to happen, but all the main players which are in the mod are well established: House Harkonnen, House Atreides, the Bene Gesserit, etc.
If there have been plans by Kledath or others to have super units based on the Kwisatz Haderach or other content from Dune's timeline, these ideas could easily be adapted to 500 years earlier, I think.
The Bene Gesserit could be experimenting with an early attempt at their genetically bred super being. There could be prescience developed by hero figures in the noble houses.
There is one major impact of setting this mod 500 years before Dune in that you can't use the characters from the book. With a bit of patience, you could find alternate art and pictures for alternate leaders from this timeline in the past. Making up good names is very easy.
You could even still use graphic content from the movies and books. You could even use the pictures of the actors from Dune movie or TV series and give them alternate names. These are the ancestors of the protaganists in Dune!
So the main part of this proposal is to flesh out the Apocalyptic event which justifies the mod. I believe it should cause an interruption of normal space travel. This makes the factions on the planet very isolated. And helps to explain why so many technologies are missing.
Here is one idea: the Tleilaxu have unleashed a genetically engineered plague into human space. They only created it to use on a rival in a factional war but it has spread wildly. That rival was House Ordos. This is a nice tie in to having that faction present on planet in this mod.
House Ordos was from a computer game, but I like it and agree with including it. There must be many noble Houses in the Landsraad, House Harkonnen and House Atreides are but two of them.
The plague is beyond their control now and is devastating the universe. It has had an unfortunate side effect where it is especially lethal to Guild Navigators with their altered genetics. The Guild is desperately searching for a cure and has curtailed much space travel to protect their remaining navigators. The known universe is in utter chaos: worlds are starving and isolated with the reduction in space travel, there are riots and rebellions everywhere. The authority and position of all the ancient powers of the Imperium are under threat and they are deperately trying to deal with the situation.
The Guild would naturally seal their Navigators away in protected and safe environments, but they are still contracting this deadly and mysterious disease. Advanced stage Navigators have divined that the plagus is being actively spread by a faction of rogue Face Dancers, trying to destablise the status quo so they can advance their own agenda. They are proving extremely hard to track down, even by Bene Gesserit Truth Sayers.
Why is that? Well, let's exercise some creative freedom here. The rogue Face Dancers are being helped by some ex-Bene Gesserit renegades who have taught them how to shield their minds from Truthsayers.
Now back to Arrakis. The Padishah Emperor had already assigned CHOAM company directorships to several great Houses and charged them to mine spice on Arrakis. He is making them compete with each other to win the right for sole spice mining privileges, as was happening during the time period of Dune.
These Houses were all present when the plague took hold and are now mostly stranded on Arrakis. There are still Guild Liners coming to the planet as it is the place where the precious Spice is produced, but other offworld contact is limited.
The Fremen have always been here. The Bene Gesserit have a formal outpost on planet. The Emperor despatched the current Count Fenring, his most loyal and faithful servant, to oversee the joint operations of the noble Houses and keep an eye on them and ensure spice production was maintained.
I really like the idea of an offworld presence in this mod, a remote contact with the homeworlds of the factions. The ideas about the Apocalypse I'm proposing easily justify starting with no off world contact but regaining it by researching techs in the tech tree.
This idea of offworld contact should allow a player to buy the transport of advanced units from their homeworld, and should also allow population to come and migrate. Was this Koma's idea? Sorry, I am pressed for time so can't really trawl through all the posts again.
Payment should be made to the Guild faction. It should be quite expensive to ship units as they should be end game units that are powerful. Money which should come from the spice economy would take on even more meaning and value. And that's as it should be in a mod based on Frank Herbert's Dune universe.
The Guild could play out as follows under this proposal. They start with perhaps less on map presence than other players and lack some benefits in terms of their starting faction traits.
I also reckon that all faction should have unique powers or strengths in the mod. These would granted via traits, unique promotions, and unique unit types.
The Guild would perhaps miss some useful strengths other factions get, which help those survive and thrive on Dune. In return, they get:
- paid for off world shipments;
- ability to bring in low tech units in the early game from offworld; these are from other struggling Guild outposts in this local sector of space;
- because of shortages and the plague, they too have to mine spice onplanet though they normally wouldn't do that, normally relying on CHOAM;
- they gain more profit from spice production;
- they have no special military units, or perhaps only mobility based ones, but overall they should be a shade weaker than other factions;
- but they can use spice to hire smugglers and mercenaries, both local and off world;
- perhaps local smugglers can be the early game version of these troops, off world Guild troops could be mid game, and heavy off world mercs could be late game.
There are a lot of ideas in this post. What do you all think? I really do believe having a good back story is essential for this kind of mod. It can be kneaded like bread dough into the game play of the mod as it develops under the Civ engine. You are doing an amazing job of really customising Civ into something suitable to represent Dune! I love seeing the previews of the sandstorms, worms, and the Fedaykin on the forum.
I haven't played this mod yet as it seems in such constant flux, but I think I will download it tonight and make room on my HDDs to reinstall Civ4.
I am very heavily involved in writing a mod for another game so I have very little free time. But I love Dune, I love Civ, and I love mods! So I'm more than happy to contrbute a little bit. I could fairly easily write some background material, perhaps even write some civilopedia entries if you guys need that done.
I have some other ideas to contribute to the conversations and I'll post those soon.
Cheers,
Sword
but it's definitely the last time I can be online for 2 weeks. 
