OCC strategies

I just finished a really frustrating OCC game [BTS 3.17, Prince, Continents, Standard, 9 Civs, Time Victory Off, all other settings as is].

I was playing as Lincoln, started on what turned out to be the smaller of two continents, a stone's throw from Pacal. He founded Hinduism, it spread to me, and we proceeded to be bosom buddies for the rest of the game. I had marble just outside the cap and an obscene amount of flood plains, and went on a wonderspam/settled specialist binge. Fantastic, and all going very well.

All ticking along fine until the discovery of the other continent - Willem (okay), Pericles (yeah, we don't mind him), Napoleon (uh-oh) and Shaka (...damn).

The root of the problem (as it arose) was that I was landlocked. I've played several OCCs where I haven't had access to the sea and they all seem to end in tears. In this one Shaka developed out of control and then came knocking - the first army I managed to decimate fairly effectively (Pacal took a bit of a battering, but between us we saw the big Shak off). He had almost complete control of the other continent though, I couldn't keep up industrially or in tech, and when he landed the next invasion force it was MAs and Mobile SAMs against a few Bombers and some mech inf (Pacal had helpfully stopped trading me oil and refused pointblank to give me any even though he was circling the drain).

I had long since decided space was my only victory option, and was in fact only one more engine away from launching, but I had no hope of holding off this army long enough (and, as it transpired, Shaka won a diplo victory before he'd even got his tanks up to the gates of washington).

How do you deal with a situation like that? If I'd had an outlet to the sea, I could've definately held off his navy. He had plenty of ships, but the numbers were many times less than the troops on them (obviously) and we were almost at parity, ship-tech wise.

It seems to me that if you can't get to the sea, you really are in trouble: either you can't hold off an invasion by downing the boats before they get to you, or you can't go and raise a culture city/the UN to prevent the AI winning.

Do any OCC-ers have some strategies for this situation they'd like to share with me? I do really enjoy the OCC games, but I hate the feeling where you hit a point where defeat is unavoidable...

Well, they call it One City CHALLENGE for a reason!

Seriously, OCCs are tough although I have played a few, winning 2 of them as an RPC (See my classic RPC summary) and losing one.

A few strategies that I use

1) Forget cottages, farm everything. Did you farm those floodplains?

2) Wonderspam and settle all of Great People.

3) Get the pyramids and adopt Representation. Beeline Civil Service and adopt Bureacracy. Stay in Caste, you do not need democracy.

4) DO NOT CHOP FORRESTS! Use them as health resources and defensive locations. Build Forrest Preserves in them for free specialists.

5) Plan your national wonders well, you get only 5. I go NE, OX, GT, NP. The last is dependant on the game but I suaully take IW even though coal is lost because f the NP.

DEFENSE!

What I really love about an OCC is building a great defensive perimter (diplomacy works better but sometimes people like Shaka do not agree.

A) Keep your forrests.

B) Build road arround you BFC.

C) Build only the needed roads past that.

D) SPam forts everywhere you can outside the BFC.

E) Build alot of proper military. CG units are no brainers. Seige weapons with Collateral damage promotions. Flanking II mounted units to destroy approaching Seige weapons.

F) Keep the Military upgraded.

G) Advanced: keep at least 2 machine guns in each fort. Spam your airforce in forts. No oil, spam SAMs.

And welcome to the forums!

follow this link:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324408

It has some very good info how to do it...
Just a few notes:

3) Get the pyramids and adopt Representation. Beeline Civil Service and adopt Bureacracy. Stay in Caste, you do not need democracy.

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Even it may sound funny but I do switch do serfdom after I get Scientific method to build the forest preserves asap. Pre biology you may not have enough population for caste to be fully utilized, although I do switch to it ofc. And biology you get from liberalism. That's the single most important tip.

>>4) DO NOT CHOP FORRESTS!
The ones in BFC that's it. The rest chop and chop as much as you can. However, do not whip.

Besides, to immortal including (given a wonderful start: marble/stone + metal around +-gold/gems) it's possible to beat the game in conquest.

Like stated: make sure your city produces heaps of great people (and even more). Academy and possibly Great Library (if timed right) + Scotland Yard (quite late game, though) are virtually the one non-settled great people you'd like. That's not limited to "Corporations", they are good and denying them is also good.

Edit: Iron works is good for the extra engineer specialists, since great engineers are possibly the most useful ones.
Have fun!

Forrests outside your BFC make excellent defensive positiond for your troops though.

madscientist said:

Forrests outside your BFC make excellent defensive positiond for your troops though.

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Sure they do (esp on hills, this I like ,thus nothing but the hill/forest/fort around) but usually I coward in the city (if I dont have enough units) and 80% cultural def+castle take like forever to bombard. Meanwhile some suicide pults/cannons (more likely) and flanking win the day for me.

Play a pangea map with pressed coastline: that leaves open every VC. Playing continents in an OCC is usually a bad idea.

Also
Drama > CS
Forests aren't that great
IND > PHI

Why keep forests?

Farms give more food = more specialists.

Globe Theatre = no need for .

National Park = no problems.

Look for a riverside coastal start with minimal coast tiles, and 5+ food resources, this can be found if you regenerate lots.

You only have one city. Dont play the first map you get if food is scarce and you have no river / coast.

Coast isnt important on a pangea though, just to protect yourself from AI navies.

Best leader for OCC is Bismark - IND for Wonderspam, EXP for larger city earlier on, best civ is Russia for Research Institute (Bismark of Russia).

For civics you want Representation, Caste System, Beurocracy, Mercantalism, Pacifism throughout the game.

First Wonder = Pyramids, Followed up by Temple of Artemis, Hanging Gardens, Parthenon, Globe Theatre, Glib, NE.

Dont build any other GA or GP wonders, settle all great people, but save GAs and GPs for golden ages. Mausoleum and Taj are not usefull as then you will get too many GAs, prioritse GE, GS, and GM wonders, only ones you want for GA and GP are Parthenon (+50% birth rate), and Temple of Artemis (+5 great people points plus 1 extra + , 3 ).

If you manage to found any religions, or if any spread to you build a monastery ASAP. it can also be useful to found as many as you can yourself for instant monasteries, but dont ever waste time on temples / cathedrals.

bhavv said:

For civics you want Representation, Caste System, Beurocracy, Mercantalism, Pacifism throughout the game.

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Why Merc? For one lousy free specialist you'll give up 4 Trade Routes? It's throwing away potential 32 for 3 free . It's not a good deal in my book...

Ignorant Teacher said:

Why Merc? For one lousy free specialist you'll give up 4 Trade Routes? It's throwing away potential 32 for 3 free . It's not a good deal in my book...

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I never really thought that trade routes in a single city mattered much TBH.

I didnt realise it was that much commerce oops.

Mercantilism is good if you have vassals, though

madscientist said:

1) Forget cottages, farm everything. Did you farm those floodplains?

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Cottages have a place in a OCC. But you usually want to do a slow transition post Emancipation, Cottaging over your Farms one at a time. You can get back the lost Specialists spots with Sid's Sushi if possible. Cereal Mills is a nice alternative, but Sushi can be an incredible bonus to your OCC.

Yes cottages are really important as, before the Globe theatre, you cant grow a lot.
Then the best is to minimize this growing cottaging your floodplains and grasslands.

Then best leader is Elisabeth and probably Russia as civ.

I am not solo OCC player but a MP one, usually we play on equal-map (same map for everyone for a fair game) with ressources extra, what gives lot of food.

Keep forests for health at the begining and for national park later, which is awesome in OCC.

Dont necessary focus on wonders, as you want to make science, you put lot of scientists and dont have necessary a good production.

You tech so fast that you cant make all wonders, as you have to do all others important stuff as library, university etc...

Pyra and GL are the 2 essentiely ones.Not sure you have time for others.

If you really want somes challenges in OCC , get in MP, it's really not the same that AIs.

just on space racing in general who in OCC actually launches a complete space ship? You want to launch having built as few bits as possible. Extra engines and thrusters just aren't worth the extra time.

the reason you want to keep as many forests as possible is so you can preserve them and get a free specialist for each one of them with the NP. Definitely a better investment than farming them all as it gives you more hammers as well.

I'm with the non- cottagers on this as well, they just take too long to grow, on higher levels your only chance against the AI is to run an SE.

the main problem is usually resources as you are very unlikely to get all of them in one city radius

Cottages + HR + bureaucracy beats farms + rep in most cases. You have limited number of ressources, you're going to be very limited for the size of your city under Rep, unless you have a lot of religions.
I agree about keeping a lot of forests (~8 is good).
You beeline biology (taking it with lib before 1000AD should be the goal), then research constitution and switch to Rep at that point. You should have built the GT so happiness police isn't needed anymore.

Rep is a must have, postponing it until 1000 AD is a really, really, really, really, really bad idea. Especially since you can build the Globe in the BCs if you try a bit.

Any wonder will do, but try to keep your GA appearance chance under 10%, all the other GP are good.

Wow, some interesting stuff here. Again I am not a big OCC player but I did have the honor of playing three of them in this public forum which opens me to ridicule and alot of suggestions.. So here I go again on some issues

1) Happiness. Notably Representation versus HR. Easy to solve, build the Globe Theater. Drama is not that far off and the 3 extra happiness are enough. Those extra beakers from each specialist are essential to an OCC.

2) Cottages. Perhaps they can be used, but in the long run you have alot more flexibility with a farm and specialist in OCC. Also the civic that maximize cottages are FS and US, not the best civics for an OCC as Bureacracy rocks and representation is tremendous for the settled specialists. Also the commerce value of a town versus a specialist under representation favors the specialist because of more great Person production.

3) Forrests, Health and the NP. Keeping forrests are the BEST early form of health, very important for an OCC. The extra production is nice but not that essential. It's those free specialists that pay off bigtime. And more specialists means faster GPs which can be settled.

4) Civics. Representation is the best hands down. Bureacracy ditto. CAste for the extra specilist slots but depends if you can utilize it, still I cannot see how other civics here help much. Merc seams like a waste, free Market is fine, but State Property can work if you have farmed riverside grassland tiles that you want to convert into watermills to boost the production aspect (Space Parts or Military Spam). All the religion civics have uses during the OCC and is the most versatile civic column.

Regarding Kesshi's example, I cannot argue it's a great city there but will mention a few things to mention: A) screenshot is during a Golden Age, B) Are you in FS or Bur and why not get the hammer bonus of BUR if not (also the trade route commerce times 50%)? C) on the coast with only 2 seafood is a perfect spot, this does not happen often But it also means you are susceptible to a naval assault. Again no problems but I don't think this is the typical OCC, but I could be wrong.

Skurn said:

Cottages + HR + bureaucracy beats farms + rep in most cases. You have limited number of ressources, you're going to be very limited for the size of your city under Rep, unless you have a lot of religions.

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I strongly disagree I can't imagine skipping representation off the pyramids and actually winning OCC on high enough (monarch+) difficulty
I have never had problems w/ happiness until I have to defy multiple AP/UN jazz. Then the globe theater comes handy. The biggest problem usually is lack of healthy resources.

General start is pyramid/oracle (CoL and trade for alphabet), back fill, aesthetics, literature: the great lib. At that point the game becomes quite easy and diplomacy is the main issue.
I have posted that before and it's from an emperor game.

Cottages may work, however they are subject of pillage and if that happens one is royally screwed. Plus, specialists are a lot more flexible, if I remember correctly the ship engine was 4turns to produce when the city was in prod mode (normal speed).

madscientist said:

1) Happiness. Notably Representation versus HR. Easy to solve, build the Globe Theater. Drama is not that far off and the 3 extra happiness are enough. Those extra beakers from each specialist are essential to an OCC.

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I tend to priorize Education for Oxford, so I won't get the GT that early.
I'm not saying the farm / pyr / rep isn't viable, depends on your start and civ, really.
But I think cottages can outclass that, and you don't have to build the expensive pyramids, which can be a PITA since you don't want to chop your forests.

madscientist said:

2) Cottages. Perhaps they can be used, but in the long run you have alot more flexibility with a farm and specialist in OCC. Also the civic that maximize cottages are FS and US, not the best civics for an OCC as Bureacracy rocks and representation is tremendous for the settled specialists. Also the commerce value of a town versus a specialist under representation favors the specialist because of more great Person production.

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Well, bureaucracy synergize a lot more with cottages. The commerce generated is boosted by +50% while beakers from scientists get nothing. Free speech gives +2 commerce/town, bureau gives +2.5, it's a no-brainer.
About flexibility, what do you mean? You can switch to US to rush buy units/buildings if need be.
Your first specialists will be used for an academy and then 2-3 bulbs probably. By the time you are settling specialists, you won't be far away from constitution anyway.

madscientist said:

2) Cottages. Perhaps they can be used, but in the long run you have alot more flexibility with a farm and specialist in OCC. Also the civic that maximize cottages are FS and US, not the best civics for an OCC as Bureacracy rocks and representation is tremendous for the settled specialists. Also the commerce value of a town versus a specialist under representation favors the specialist because of more great Person production.

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Post Radio, if you can build the Cristo Redentor, you can do some amazing things with cottages in an OCC. US + OR for one turn, and rush buy a building, then swap back to Rep + FR the next turn to build up some gold, and put some hammers into the next item. Of course the Kremlin helps here, but it's not necessary.

If I needed a ton of production real quick, I would swap to US + SP + OR/Theo. This yielded an increbile amount of hammers. That was how I build my spaceship in this game.

Pre Radio you can do the above trick with Spiritual as well, but it isn't as effective due to the wait time between swapping civics.

madscientist said:

Regarding Kesshi's example, I cannot argue it's a great city there but will mention a few things to mention: A) screenshot is during a Golden Age, B) Are you in FS or Bur and why not get the hammer bonus of BUR if not (also the trade route commerce times 50%)? C) on the coast with only 2 seafood is a perfect spot, this does not happen often But it also means you are susceptible to a naval assault. Again no problems but I don't think this is the typical OCC, but I could be wrong.

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I was in Buerucracy in that screenshot. If you notice I was playing as Incans. HC, who I consider the strongest OCC leader, has the Industrial and Financial traits. Town + Printing Press + River + Financial + Golden Age = a ton of Commerce! I played on this leader's Financial trait to the maximum possible. Coasts = 1 more commerce and Windmills (eventually) end up meaning 1 more commerce because both produce 2 Commerce base. Every single tile in that city's workable radius is producing at least 2 base Commerce, leading to 3 because of Financial, and 4 with the Golden Age. Basically I played this leader's strengths to the maximum possible.

While you are correct this isn't a typical OCC, I question why it isn't. Even without the two seafood resources, cottages in an OCC are very powerful. You said that Farms are more flexable, and while that's true early game, endgame I find Cottages more flexable. You can use them for Gold (Rush Buying), Science, or Hammers depending on your civic changes. Now-a-days I consider the Cristo Redentor as vital to an OCC as I do the Pyramids.

bestsss said:

I have posted that before and it's from an emperor game.

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Just to say, but unless you have some diplo reasons, you should consider running environmentalism: you would gain a net 30 commerce from preserves + buro against the 4-5 commerce of a trade route + some gold economy because of corps