Middle Ages Mod idea thread

Kailric · Aug 17, 2009

I have released the first version of this mod and its fairly huge, over 1 GB unzipped. You can check it out at the below link....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=407186

Join the Team
If anyone would like to help in this endeavor send me a PM or make a post here. Graphical help is needed most atm. Things such as Flags, Building, City, and Unique Unit art. Also, Tech tree Icons and Tech ideas as well. Once I have a first Alpha version I plan on seeing if we can get this its own Forum.

Update: 5-7-2010
I haven't forgot about this little gem here. I been slowly putting together "parts" that will add to this mod. Like the Inventor/Tech Tree and Journeyman mods. I think I will first just do a whole Graphic exchange mod where I exchange all the graphics to fit a medieval time period. Once that is done I can start working on game mechanics.

List of Civilizations and Leaders currently in the game

Playable
Vicking - Ragnar
Celtic - Boudica
Visigoths - Reccared I
Mongols, Genghis, Kubla
Anglo-Saxons - Offa
Normans - William
Persians - Abdullah ibn Tahir
Arabs - Saladin
Franks - Clovis I, Charlemagne
Turks - Al-Mansur
Byzantine - Justinian
Khmer - Suryavarman
Korean - Wang Kon
Japan - Minamoto no Yoritomo

Barbarians (Natives)
Vandals - Genseric
Magyars - Arpad
Slavs - Samo
Berber - Ziri ibn Manad
Lombards - Alboin
Malinese - Mansamusa
Huns - Attila
Ostrogoths - Theodoric

Other Civ Suggestions
Lithuenia - Suggested by kaibayashi

Goods and Materials

Notes and ideas:
-Gold for spending will be aquired through several means other than selling goods. Some buildings will be taxable. For instance the Tavern will automaticly sell Ale to build your units morale(Liberty Bell Production) and at the same time you gain a Tax bonus in gold for each unit consumed.
-Cattle, Sheep, and Horses will probably be created much like Horses are in Vanilla Col but wheat is required to produce them.
-Morale of your units will play a part in production much like "rebel sentiment". Peasants and such will gain a boost in morale from having Ale in your taverns and Nobles will get a morale boost from having Wine perhaps.
-There will be 4 types of Armor with Leather and Scale being Produced at the start and you must then research Chain and Plate.
-Bonus resources are the ones that require you to have access to the actual bonus in order to Produce the good.
-Invented Goods require you to invent the item and then you are the only one able to create it unless someone steals the technology or you trade the Tech. It will be very valuable in a trade.

Domestic
Cattle -> Hides -> Leather
Cattle -> Cheese -> Food
Cattle -> Meat
Sheep -> Wool -> Coats
Barley -> Ale
Vineyard -> Wine
Cotton -> Cloth
Wheat -> Bread -> Food
Fish -> Meat

Mined
Salt -> Meat -> Food
Ore -> Tools

Military
Horses

Tools -> Weapons

Leather -> Leather Armor

Leather -\
Tools-> Scale Armor

Leather -\
Tools -> Chain Armor

Chain -\
Leather ]-> Plate Armor
Tools -/

Production
Wood
Stone
Tools

Bonus Resources
Gold
Silver
Ivory
Furs
Spices

Invented Goods
Silk
Porcelain

Original Post and Ideas:

Spoiler :

TC01 · Aug 17, 2009

Deliverator had a similar idea about a Crusades mod, here are some relevant posts (one by me).

Deliverator said:
I had an idea for a Crusades mod for Colonization. Not exactly sure how it would work though.

Androrc the Orc said:
Cool idea

I suppose you mean having the "colonies" be medieval European child states in the Levant, and the Arabic countries be the "natives". Yeah, pretty nice.

Deliverator said:
Yeah, that sort of thing. A bit similar to the Medieval II Total War scenario perhaps. This is plenty of suitable unit art around if someone wanted to make it. The problem is it is hard to deviate in terms of mechanics so you always have to have a War of Independence, etc, etc.

TC01 said:
Maybe you could have the War of Independence be Saladin's army invading? So as you grow in power, Saladin builds up his army, and then once you hit a certain threshold, he attacks you with everything he's got?

So if you beat him, you've destroyed all opposition to the Crusades (or at least, the greatest opposition), but if you loose, the Crusades have been driven back?

Kailric · Aug 18, 2009

TC01 said:
Deliverator had a similar idea about a Crusades mod, here are some relevant posts (one by me).

Cool TC01, I haven't seen those posts before. Thats sweet about your idea with the "Saladin's army invading", I had the same idea for the Knights of Malta in my Privateers mod with the Islamic Barbary pirates invading, or Ottoman turks. Sounds like a really cool victory condition. I hope I can get one of the mods up and working with it.

Anyway, the Middle Ages mode will have references to the Crusades in its game concepts. Just not sure yet what all that will entail. But also depending on what Leader you choose will depend on where you start, on land or Sea. The Leaders that start at sea like the Vikings will be prone to attack you from the sea. The Mod will be about War as that time period was filled with it so the AI will be alot more aggressive too. The AI is hardest for me to code as its not as easy to test and lots harder to find bugs. So it will take some time to do alone so anyone wanting to help will be nice for sure.

kaibayashi · Aug 18, 2009

Hey Kailric, another great sounding mod idea! You could include the Grand Duchy of Lithuenia as a PN. Although the country didnt really come into being until the 1230's it grew to become the largest country in Europe during the 14th century, spanning from the Baltic to Black Seas, and entering into a commonwealth with Poland before the trio of Russia, Prussia and Austria dismantled it in the 18th century. Lithuania for many years was a target of Christian crusades of the Teutonic Knights and Livonian Order. I mainly ask tho 'cos my girlfriend is from there and I would live to show her her country in one of my games!!

More info on wikipedia if you wish.

Kailric · Aug 18, 2009

kaibayashi said:
Hey Kailric, another great sounding mod idea! You could include the Grand Duchy of Lithuenia as a PN. Although the country didnt really come into being until the 1230's it grew to become the largest country in Europe during the 14th century, spanning from the Baltic to Black Seas, and entering into a commonwealth with Poland before the trio of Russia, Prussia and Austria dismantled it in the 18th century. Lithuania for many years was a target of Christian crusades of the Teutonic Knights and Livonian Order. I mainly ask tho 'cos my girlfriend is from there and I would live to show her her country in one of my games!!

More info on wikipedia if you wish.

Cool, I read through some of the history there. Reading about the assassination of the king Mindaugas makes me want to add an assassin unit or spy. Colonization lacks any such unit so putting one in and making it a viable part of the game sounds like good idea.

See if you can find me a leaderhead that fits ole Vytautas the Great:

Spoiler :

Kailric · Aug 19, 2009

I just update the top post with some more ideas on this. I am a noob at Python but I been figureing things out. I already added Morale and Piety. As mentioned above Crosses and Libertybells is being done away with for the most part and will be replace with new concepts such as:

Morale- Morale played a huge factor in battles during this time period. Where as these days you can kill a billion people at the push of a button somewhere miles below ground, back then you fought man to man. Morale then was a very important. An opponents strength in numbers didn't always play the biggest factor in the battle either. So many times high morale and solid leadership won the day. I plan to incorperate these concepts into this mod. Morale will add bonuses to combat as well as keep the Unit in the fight till he wins or loses. If two units do battle and one is supierior in morale while the other is superior in strength the one with high morale will fight till the end where as the other may very well surrender even if he is winning the initial bout.

Piety- The new Leader units will have new commands that let them do various things among them is boost morale. Piety will be saved up much like gold and will be able to be spent for those various things. Such as to Inspire Courage or to hold a Festivals that boosts said morale throught out your kingdom. Its the Holy Book in the screenshot below.

Deliverator · Aug 21, 2009

Some thoughts.

Using Colonization as a base for a whole of Europe Medieval mod could be interesting, but I wonder whether it would be better to do a BTS mod. With BTS you get a tech tree, with Civ4Col you get more detailed trade and production, but with mechanics that are more restricted. So if you want to span a period from 400 - 1400 then BTS might serve as a better base. There are various BTS medieval mod projects which are either under development or could be resurrected and reworked.

The reason I suggested a more focused mod on the Crusades is that you have a shorter period of history so tech progression is not as much of an issue, and the game mechanics fit relatively well. You are actually 'colonizing' Outremer. I was thinking of a map similar to the Crusades expansion for M2TW that extends from Constantinople to Egypt to the Persian gulf. Like so:

Pilgrims replace colonists, so the crosses mechanic is still valid. How you'd deal with the Revolution is interesting. I like the idea of Saladin invading, but what do you reskin liberty bells as and what would you replace the Europe screen with?

Whether you do a whole of Europe mod or just the Middle East then perhaps consider using Mare Nostrum DLL as a base for the on map home cities. I think Dale/Ekmek are working on a new one.

Perhaps you could do a couple of more focused mod/scenarios along the same lines of the Teutonic Campaign and Crusades Campaign from M2TW Kingdoms. If you've not played that expansion the info is here.

I would make the list of Trade Goods more medieval.

I like the idea of a regicide victory, but there would be major AI required for the AI not to suicide its leader, etc. Some of the issues are outlined here.

I'm up for doing the odd bit of medieval graphics. I'd like to do a knight with a horse with full decorative barding - I've not seen a decent example of that around.

TC01 · Aug 21, 2009

Well, there already is a European Middle Ages Mod for vanilla Civ 4. There was some noise about updating it to BTS but it never went anywhere. So you could either update that to BTS, make a new Col mod based on it (like The Ancient Mediterranean Mod->Mare Nostrum), or make a Crusades mod. I'd probably make a Crusades mod even if you made the Middle Ages mod. (I might not, I'm already doing a Col total conversion, a FFH civ, doing python for a BTS total conversion, and various Final Frontier modcomps).

But what do you reskin liberty bells as and what would you replace the Europe screen with?

Liberty bells could be "power". In Mars, Now by The_J, instead of culture, your colonies produce "power". So it could represent the influence and strength of your "colonies". (both for Middle Ages and for Crusades)

Europe screen... if you used Home Cities on Map + Middle Ages it would obviously just be your home city, or capital. If you used Crusades, I guess it would just be "Europe" in the first place. You were sent from Europe, so logically Europe would be where you would send your goods.

Kailric · Aug 21, 2009

Thanks for the input guys. I definitely thought about Civ4 as a basis but I like Col's economics like you mentioned and the way you can "focus" in on a certain time period. You can make Col a lot more personal than Civ4 it would seem to me and that's what I want to create here. As far as the Tech tree goes from my recent reading there wasn't really that many advances in or around Europe at that time. Like one man put it, "wherein humanity became a collection of dull-witted, superstition-ridden dolts who accomplished next to nothing and waited around for the Renaissance to be. Or not."
But, it would also seem to me that this was a time period in history where the world needed a "hero" and thats also what I would like to bring out in this mod.

As far as game play, you can virtually create a whole new game. For example- you can totally rework "Europe" or even do away with it. But, each element of Europe could be reworked in different ways. What all can you do there? Pick up your immigrants, purchase units, sell and or buy goods... thats about it right. You just rework those elements into the game in different ways. And I have been thinking on just how to do that and reading history to get inspiration.

Like for immigrants, thats how you grow your Colony, so what other ways could you "grow" your colony. Well it could be set up more Civ4 like where you actually "grow" your colony and thus make it easier to acquire peasants that way(instead of 200 food it only takes 100). Then to specialize them, (ala getting a Master Tobacconist from Immigration) you put them to work doing tasks and the longer they work at a task there is a chance each turn that they could become a "specialist". If you have a "Master" working there then it is faster to create a "Journeyman", and things like that. Thats how you do away with "Learn from Natives" as well. Anyway, those are some ideas I had on that.

And for buying and selling goods I already worked up code for my Privateers mod so that a player can "Trade with Europe" by sailing to another Colonies city and trade with that city (you sail to port and the Europe screen appears). But I also thought about things like a Traveling Merchant, which there was a lot of those back then, and also something like Guilds, maybe a Merchants guild that you traded with, or simply "Go to Market".

Like I said though, the whole game can be reworked to give a totally different experience. Thats what I want, I just don't want Colonization in Medieval Clothing

I want to take the events of actual history and add it to the game in fun and interesting ways as well. Like for one example... Monasteries. To quote one writer, "they played an entirely different and indispensable, role, particularly in Europe . Monasteries became repositories and preservers of the learning of the Classical Age. They were virtually the only providers of education.".

And as far as Crusades go, this mod could be a basis for Scenarios based on the Crusades. Thats what I am hoping to create also. Religion was big, so yeah, Immigration could work basically the same in this mod.

What would be a more medieval Trade Goods list?

Well, keeping the AI from suiciding its leader would be as simple as not allowing the unit to move. I think Civ 3 had that "feature" and thats basically what those units did.

Liberty bells as they are now want be needed as there isn't going to be a "Revolution" victory condition, so that and rebel sentiment will be changed.

And getting a totally cool new Knight unit sounds... perfect

Anymore thoughts or Ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. Everything is still on the drawing board so everything I mentioned above could be changed. Fun and interesting is the name of the game

drjest2000 · Aug 22, 2009

I am reminded of a Medieval History lesson I had a long long while ago in university; the mechanics of the Christian conversion of the "northern barbarians". That would mean the Norse, Swedes, Finns, Russians, and such. The Medieval Period is a big time frame and covers a lot of ground depending on where you point on the map of Europe. If you take the Rennaisance as the end of the Medieval period, then Russia didn't exit the Medieval period until about the time of Peter the Great, England only a bit ahead of Russia. Elizabeth I in England is the point where the Renaisance hits England after her sister Mary had dragged it quite thoroughly back to the Medieval period LOL

All of the things you are mentioning sound very appealing. The one area you maybe haven't expressed a lot of info on is missionaries. The missions to the New World were only a couple of centuries after the full conversion of Europe to Christianity and there were still Crusader States hanging on in isolated pockets of resistance. The Kingdom of Cyprus and the Knights Hospitaller on Rhodes held out until a few years before Columbus' trip to find the short route to China and India, albeit there were numerous failed attempts to reclaim then. It's not unreasonable to say the Crusades were still going on as late as 1600 + or - 25 years, so there was som overlap between the Missionary effort in the New World and the Crusades, but how much is a matter of conjecture... Any way, my lost point regained is that the missionaries in the New World were strong arming the natives into Christianity as part of the Church Militant which was less vogue by the 1600s, but like the Inquisition, it lingered on a bit. I'd recommend making Missionaries in the mod a bit beefier than they appear in the vanilla game. Say something like a dragoon in terms of killing power if they're Knights Hospitaller or like a veteran soldier in the case of a Dominican Friar.

Medieval Trade Goods (Eliminating over-lapping commodities):

Spice Route (India and the East Indies): Soap, Musk, Camphor, Ambergris, Sandalwood, Pepper, Cinnamon, Nutmeg, Cotton, Indigo, Cassia, Cardamom, Ginger, and Turmeric
Incense Route (Arabia and East Africa): Perfume, Frankensence, Myrrh, Gold, Ivory, Ebony, Exotic animals and furs, Linen
Silk Road (China, Mongolia, Tibet): Silk, Porcelain (china), Lacquered objects, Medicines, Dyes, Gems, Carpets, Hemp Sailcloth and Rope (high quality rope was worth its weight in gold)
Fur Route (Russia, Siberia, Mongolia): Amber, Furs of Sable, Mink, Beaver, Asian Snow Leopard, Wolf, Bear
Salt Route (Southern France and North Africa): Salt, Silver, Gold, Papyrus (still used until the advent of Chinese long fiber rag paper), Antimony (Kohl), Brass, and Wheat.

I'd make some commodities linked to harvester specialists, say like indigo in the plantation mod, but others I would make with no specialist, don't know of a cognate here. Salt for instance was the primary food preservative, after that vinegar and both were precious tightly controlled commodities by those who produced them because preserved food meant a strong army and one didn't want one's enemies gaining access to them.

Sugar and Cotton could be carried over without any changes, but I'd replace tobacco altogether with something else, like maybe hemp or silk and require the finished item for some units. Sailcloth for ships would be good, but the modern sail wasn't quite on the scene during the medieval period, large war vessels were almost always gallys during that period.

Last but not least Greek Fire, gotta have it LOL

Kailric · Aug 22, 2009

Thanks for your input drjest2000. Yeah, missionaries will be a big part of the game. And as you somewhat mentioned all the major religions had them. The Firebread Preacher will be replaced by "Monks" of some sort and the Jesuit Missionary, by maybe a "Zealot Missionary"? Can you think of any good terms to use for them. Maybe have 2 kinds, the peaceful kind and then the Crusader, convert or die type, that can attack lone units and have a chance to convert them.

I'd like to do something special with Pilgrims. Say like after you have built a "Holy Shrine" of some sort Pilgrims from distant lands will appear to visit your "Holy Shrine" and effect your empire in some way. Maybe increasing gold revenues and or information traded. Then, depending on the Pilgrims alignment there would be hostile units about, like some of the "Native" tribes that would attack the Pilgrims. So the player would have to set up patrols in order to protect them or go on Crusades to "Convert" the barbarians, thus keeping that revenue safe and or increasing more pilgrimages.

I'd also like to do something different with trade routes where you could actually set up trade routes with foreign powers and draw in extra revenue that way. And I really like the idea of "tightly controlled commodities". Silk was one such commodity and China kept it a closely guarded secret for as long as they could. There could be a way where if you are the first to build a "Silk Plantation" or its other trade goods counterpart then you would be the only one to produce that good, thus making high revenue off the trade of it. Greek fire could be like that as well and it could be used as a "Promotion" units can get to add defense bonuses. This could also be a way to do away with the Europe screen where you would buy and sell your goods through these trade routes.

One thing I really like about Col is the Profession system. Its historically accurate too as well cause your Military units wasn't always in the army those days. Soldiers where not professional under the Feudal system but your simple farmer or herdsman and in times of war they would be called up as infantry. The Vikings for another example where not constantly raiders. The word "Viking" actually means "go voyaging" or "go raiding". They would farm in the spring and early fall then go "Viking" for pillage and plunder in the summer and late fall. Winter was for partying :cheers:

Thanks again for the suggestions, they are duly noted and will be in the mod in some form or another :goodjob:

Kailric · Aug 22, 2009

I just had a thought on a way to "Upgrade" units after thinking about those last posts. You know how there is a "change profession" command. Well there could be another "Upgrade" command where you would get the option to apply promotions to your units depending on what type of trade goods you had in your city. Say if you had all the ingredients for "Greek Fire" you could choose that promotion thus spending those goods but upgrading your unit... now that sounds fun.

And "sailcloth" could be used this way as well. Can you think of anymore "trade goods to promotion" ideas?

drjest2000 · Aug 22, 2009

Coal and charcoal have been used in smelting and smithing since remote antiquity, but because of the limited depth of mines (limited by lack of effective ventilation or pumping equipment), shaft mining was limited to a few hundred feet at most. Coal would be a rather rare commodity but would allow for something like primitive steel, but a charcoal burner would be available any place that had wood and be necessary to any sort of large scale tool or weapons making venture. The availability of coal would increase the speed of weapons making since there was not a necessary middle step in converting wood to "coal" before going to smelting and smithing.

Greek fire is linked to the availability of naphtha (a sort of surface petroleum deposit) and sulphur or brimstone in the Medieval parlance (found in hot springs and volcanic areas), both are HIGHLY flammable and dangerous commodities and would require a specialist to handle safely, so I'd recommend an alchemist specialist (or something like that in name)

Horses are required for knights, just like dragoons, so that's an easy promotion link, but the term knight, like "Medieval" covers a lot of ground. Depending on the era, a knight meant everything from a simple horseman to a full plate Arthurian sort of affair. So I'd start with footmen, the basic infantry of the Medieval era (wood), then axemen (iron + wood), then swordsmen (iron + coal), then light cavalry (horses + wood), then heavy cav (horses + iron), then knights (horses + iron + coal) as the pinnacle. countering forces would be spearmen, then pikemen, then crossbow men.

The Islamic world had an infantry sort of class that are generally called naphtha-throwers (like grenadiers) that were the bane of crusader infantry and mounted units alike.

Scouts I would link to a food preservative since they range far and wide, so something like SALT + HORSES or VINEGAR + HORSES - salt and vinegar I would set up like trade goods in the vanilla game and have them available only as import goods from the Europe Screen.

If you have a copy of the Firefly game: Crusader, then I'd say that is as good as it gets in terms of game mechanics for the Medieval economy. Cows were the center of the medieval economy par none. Leather was very important, the "hide" was a unit of land measure in the Medieval era for a good reason. It was the smallest area needed for a cow to live to maturity so it could be harvested for milk, meat and leather. The term alone should convey how important leather was to the Medieval world. Leather was necessary even for the best metal armor as both closures and as a supporting system for a full harness of plate. Plate and chain mail were worn over leather or cloth "armor". So I would make leather necessary for any sort of military unit. Archery units wore leather armor or heavy cloth only.

Cows produce milk and the preserved, tradable form of milk is cheese, so the presence of cows equals the manufacture of both leather and cheese. converting a cow to cheese is non-destructive, but cow to leather certainly is LOL.

Bread was the chief food of the Medieval era, but wheat, barley and other corn foods were also used for brewing. Wine and beers were necessary in the Medieval world chiefly because potable water was not always available, especially in remote arid places like the Crusader States. I dread to imagine what foulness inhabited the well and river water of any large metropolitan area, I certainly wouldn't drink the water in downtown Paris, Rome, or London in 1100 AD.

Naval units relied on rope both as a means to rig and control sails, but more importantly as basic waterproofing wedged between timbers. I think in this application it's usually called oakum. But rope was made of a variety of substances: leather, human hair, horse hair, silk, and hemp. The best rope was imported from China and India and passed to the European markets via a long long trade network. Sails required both strong fabric and rope, necessitating sail-makers and rope-makers. Woolen sails are pretty much show only and used like the surcoats of knights to identify galleys, cotton and hemp sails are functional.

Pitch or tar was important too, it was the worm- and weather-proofing agent extraordinaire of the medieval era, any large ship needed it, so I'd limit the availably of some ships to the presence of petroleum surface deposits.

so to recap my thoughts in promotions format:

man + wood + leather = footman
footman + iron = axeman
axeman + coal/charcoal = swordsman (see below)
axeman + horse = light cavalry (dead end)

swordsman + horse = heavy cavalry
heavy cavalry + armor = knight (dead end)

man + wood + leather = archer
man + wood + leather + iron = crossbow-man
man + wood + leather + horse = mounted archer

wood + production = ship/boat/galley
boat + iron (anchor) = better ship (Navigation 1)
... + rope = even better ship (Navigation 2 or Cargo Holds)
... + pitch = yet again better ship (Navigation 3 or Cargo Holds)
... + sailcloth = best ship (Navigation 4 or Cargo Holds)

The Galleon was the treasure ship of the New World because of the volumes of silver and gold being sent to Europe from the New World, in the Medieval era the ships were smaller and carried less. So I'd lose the 6-cargo limit for treasure and and either decrease the occurrence of treasures or make them non-doubling to offset the easiness of transporting them.

Beer, salt, vinegar, and wine all add health or :strength:

to units, but I'd link horse + salt/vinegar to the creation of scout units.

Grapes processed to wine
Wine processed to vinegar

I am looking for a book on Church history here to find terms for missionaries. Back with more soon LOL

drjest2000 · Aug 22, 2009

From what I am seeing the term friar was the chief title for a person most like a Colonial era firebrand preacher in the medieval era.

Missionaries were called simply "missionaries" from antiquity, the Romans started the whole missionary idea before they converted to Christianity. They used the method to civilise or "pacify" the barbarians around them.

Other religions/cultures use language specific terms, but they all translate pretty squarely as "preacher" and "missionary".

There are some very antique terms like Cenobite, Sarabaite, Gyrovagus (pl. Gyrovagi) and Remoboth (pl. uncertain) for monastics that may or may not be missionaries.

There were numerous orders of monastics that performed as missionaries, but most of them are anachronistic for 90% of the Medieval era.

Kailric · Aug 22, 2009

Hey, thanks again for the info. I'll be going over all of that and get back with you on my thoughts. I do have the game StrongHold 2 and I been meaning to reinstall it (which I am doing now) to get inspiration. Post more later...

Kailric · Aug 23, 2009

Right now I am trying to come up with a new Trading system and "Europe" system and reading history, at the end of the Dark Ages I find that to start with Manors where selfsufficient and people didn't venture out much, but then slowly you started seeing traveling peddlers. As the peddling became more and more profitable they would hire others to do the leg work. Peddlers became merchants, merchants formed the caravans but it was the merchants that built up the towns. Trade fairs started and merchants from all around would meet on certain dates, and there was fairs for several different kinds of goods each year.

So, I am thinking of replacing the wagon train with a "Peddler" unit. To begin with this is your only means to trade your goods and no access to "Europe". But as the Peddler peddles he gains experience and can purchase promotions as a combat unit would. Thus the peddler becomes a merchant which becomes a Caravan. At some point the peddler will be able to travel to the "Trade Fair". Which would then work like the "Europe" trade screen. The unit would take a couple of turns to get there as normal. Time will probably be changed to months or seasons.

Thats my thoughts on that at the moment. I am still thinking of getting Masters and Experts like I mentioned above. Where the units working the spot have a chance to become a Master or Expert. But also when you have a Peddler that can travel to the "Trade Fair" you can hire Specialist that way as well.

drjest2000 · Aug 23, 2009

You know, I have often wondered why it was that a colonist works for 150 years as a cotton planter and never upgrades to an expert cotton planter... if you remedy that even in part, it will soothe my often vexed brain when I have a 78-turn round-trip to the native trainer LOL

Kailric · Aug 27, 2009

drjest2000 said:
You know, I have often wondered why it was that a colonist works for 150 years as a cotton planter and never upgrades to an expert cotton planter... if you remedy that even in part, it will soothe my often vexed brain when I have a 78-turn round-trip to the native trainer LOL

Just uploaded the first version of my "Journeyman Mod" which just may "soothe" your "often vexed brain". You can find the download here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8403983#post8403983

drjest2000 · Aug 28, 2009

downloading it as I type! Thanks, Kailric!

Viscos · Sep 14, 2009

Hey, if you do a crusader mod, this could possibly be an option.

When you start the game, you begin from the water, in your boat/boats you have a bunch of knights and some soldiers (spear and bows) some towns in the holy land are already there (jerusalem, akko, etc) hold by the "infidels" and you mission is to capture them ofcourse, your knights fight hard and long and capture Jerusalem, King grants you indipendece and you form the Kingdom of Jerusalem. Capture Anitochia and you become count of anitochia (count under the king of jerusalem, however in the game that dont work). thus removing the innoying part of fighting your king for indipendence sience the crusades were called upon from the pope and not the king (alltho the king founded the operation)

As for kings and soldiers

There are 2 diffrent type of kings and 3 models (IMO)
1, Knight (made by statesman or "noble" + Iron + Horse)
2, Templar Knight (made by priest + iron + horse)
3, Hospitaler knight (same as above)

Solders:
1, Bowmen (Townsman + Wood (bows if you add that yeild) )
2, Spearmen (Townsman + Wood (Spears if you add that)

Diffrent Yields that ive planned to use in my mod (when i find a good tutorial)
Swords
Spears
Bows
Armor
Stone

Yields that i would remove or change
Muskets - Remove
Cannons - Remove (or change to catapults)
Rum - Change (whines or beer)
Suger - Remove
Tobacco - Remove
Coats - Remove or change to Armor
Cigars - Remove
Trade goods - Remove?

Buildings i would like to add and remove.
Muskets - Remove (replace)
Bowmaker - Add (Wood + Iron) [Produces Bows]
Swordsmith - Add (Iron + Coal) [Produces Swords]
Armormaker - Add (Iron + Wood + Coal) [Produces both Sheilds and Armors]
Stone mine - Add (Tools) [Produces Stone]
Stone Fort - Add (Tools + Stone + Wood) [Enables Knights]

Costs that i would add for the diffrent recruitments
[1 unit does not repricent 1 man, but an army therefor the prices]
1 knight = 1 Nobleman + 100 Armors + 100 Horses + 100 swords + 100 sheilds
1 Templar Knight = 1 Priest (Or munk) + 100 Armors + 100 Horses + 100 swords + 100 sheilds
1 Archer = 1 Townsman (any townsman) + 100 Bows
1 Spearman = 1 Townsman (any townsman) + 100 Spears

I would proberly add some cost in money to each aswell (to simulate weekpay for the soldiers)

Right Now im reading thru all the modding tutorials and so on to get a grip of what does what but so far im stuck at createing a new nation. Looked at the plantation mod to add new Yields but still dont realy get a good grip over how it works exactly.

My earlyer modding experiences whit python is "Modern Warfare" for Soldiers Heroes of ww2, was the lead producer for the early stages then steped down in favor of a german guy who were awsome and who picked of were i stopped.

My ideas today is to try to add the new units requierd for the mod today (Knight, Archer, Spearman) ill port them from Civ 4, change the textures only and then se what happens.

// Viscos "Tommy"
Viscos at Gmail.com

Middle Ages Mod idea thread

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