Immigration.

aimeeandbeatles

watermelon
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
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Perhaps if citizens in a city are angry they can "immigrate" to another civilization.

How this happens is that the city population goes down by one, a settler unit is spontaneously formed and they go around (automatically) to different Civs and the leader can either accept or reject their request. If they accept, the settler can either join an existing city or form a new one.

However, there is one disadvantage to accepting -- They retain their culture for a while, and if you go to war with their original Civ, they become angry for the duration of it. Eventually they get assimilated into their "new" culture, though.

This could possible be disabled for custom games.
 
Also, one additional detail: If the human player rejects, an AI will always accept the settler, to prevent any weirdness.
 
Perhaps there could also be some sort of... um, civic? where the Civ is open to all immigration. So if you select "Open Immigration" sometimes settlers just appear on you.
 
Yes there should be immigration. Your relationship with a particular civ should influence how welcome they are in your civ, and how likely your people are to "defect" to their civ. You should also have the ability to close your borders to them (so effectively they cant enter a city).

You should also be able to build a tile improvement of a refugee camps (with all the associated problems that brings), and forceably herd people onto it. When things get bad in your city; your specialists should be among the first to go... (being more upwardly mobile).

Taking in refugees should effect diplomatic arrangements with other civs, and yes they should gradually assimilate.

You should also be able to flee a city as the enemy approach... both "with goods" (strip wealth from the city, but takes longer) and "without goods". The enemy should be able to attack fleeing refugees if they choose to.
 
I like the idea of immigration, and am a bit bemused as to why it isn't in the game already. There should be numerous causes for immigration, and internal migration. And I like the idea of migration civics. This could include Stalinesque 'Forced Relocation', or some such thing, that allowed you to internally transfer small amounts of population, in return for unhappiness and perhaps diplomatic penalties ('you are abusing human rights').
 
Here's what i said in another topic:

Migration is definetly a thing to add. Cause: bad health, unpleasant (so you could let unpleasant heads add voluntarilly in order to provoke a migration, see below), backwarded, poor(so the amount of gold would have its importance), etc...

You could set up your frontiers, by civics maybe, to let foreigners enter your country or not.

There would be ethnicity back, and assimilation.

Assimilation: if you have a strong culture, it could assimilate foreign citizens to your culture/ethnicity in their own cities.

So now the production and commerce of cities would be separated by ethnicity. Example: if you have 10 roman people in your city, and 6 phoenician people, the roman civ will have 10 people to work for them in this city, and the phoenician empire 6 people to work for them in this city. But let's say the city is roman, then it would remain roman. Phoenician people could build buildings in this roman city, maybe to encourage phoenician assimilation in this roman city. But they could also build units, reapatriated in the phoenician civ borders when completed. (unless it is possible to all units to go through any foreign territory, which i think would be better, like in Civ2)

So if you take a border city of your empire, you may have an honest amount of citizens working for you, because of proximity and mixing of ethnicities; but if you take a far away city, with probably a different mix of ethnicity, say arab and ottoman, you would have only 1 citizen working for you inside this city, even if you take it by force.
You could then choose to exterminate all those foreign people, with a hit in diplomacy, or start to convert the people into roman people. The appartenance of a city to a civilization will be the strongest factor to assimilation. So with time, if the city is yours, foreign people will start to convert into Romans. You could also build buildings fovorizing greatly the assimilation, like UBs.
Also, you could choose forced immigration: all foreign people of the taken far away city goes in your core cities, being faster to assimilate, when some people (roman) of your core cities goes in the new conquered city. (or not) It seems easier and wiser to use this option, but it stands for 1 city only, it would be more complicated with several cities conquered, your core cities losing production and commerce slowly. (for example if you conquer 6 ennemy cities and choose forced immigration each time, your core cities may end up with 6 citizen each working for the enemy.)

I don't know if i'm clear, but this kind of thing could IMO justify the presence of immigration in the game, in the same way it would make culture more important, and buildings also more important.
 
I think migration is one of the best candidates for the 33% 'new' of civ5. Migration has played an important role troughout history and is a theme that has been hardly touched upon in the civ-series. (many other 4X games already have migration mechanics though)

The big question is how it should be implemented. I'm not a begin fan of immigrants moving as settlers across the map. I'd rather see immigration as part of a bigger overhaul of the city growth mechanics.

I think cities should get actual population numbers. The size of the city then probably should be something like the logarithm of this population. (which is how the current city size roughly translates to population) The population can change through:

1) Natural growth based on available food and the city health.

2) Migration to and from other cities. The amount being a function of the general desirability of the cities involved (which in turn is a function of happiness, wealth, health, civics, etc.), the distance, the availabilities of trade routes, etc.

Something that naturally comes with this idea is the concept of ethnicity. Immigrants should bring along their own culture. Having large minority populations in a city can lead to ethnic conflicts and could even cause cities to rebel. (This would work well together with RevDCM like mechanics) Civics should give different options to deal with immigrants. (from closing the borders to economic immigrants, to locking your own population in ala the DDR.)
 
I think cities should get actual population numbers. The size of the city then probably should be something like the logarithm of this population.

Yes, that would be nice. The current population stats don't fit any smooth formula- they are just arbitrarily defined jumps from one number to another.
 
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