NC XXXIV: Pericles

cas

Emperor
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
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Second time hosting and I think I learned quite a bit from my mistakes in the first worldbuilder debacle. Hopefully these files are correct. If not, I'll be around later to try to fix them.

On to NC XXXIV: Pericles of Greece. His traits are PHI and CRE, starting techs are Hunting and Fishing. PHI gives +100% :gp: rate and double production of University. CRE gives +2 :culture: per city and double production speed of library, theatre, and colosseum (Odeon).

Pericles civpedia:
Spoiler :




His Unique Building is the Odeon. A replacement for the Colosseum...it costs the same hammers, but gives 2 :) instead of 1 and also 3 :culture: Odeon civpedia:
Spoiler :


His Unique Unit is the Phalanx. A replacement for the Axeman, it costs the same hammers but gains +100% defense versus Chariot in addition to the normal +50% versus melee units. Phalanx civpedia:
Spoiler :


The starting position...TERRA MAP, standard size, medium sea level. Default on remaining options. For those not familiar with TERRA maps, all 7 civs start on one continent and there is another continent (and usually a couple of islands) overseas. I'm pretty sure I fixed the starting position of the scout, so everyone should have the same original view. Also, I learned a few things from NC XXXII...this map should be tougher.

Screenshot of the start:
Spoiler :


Finally, a cut/paste of the standard NC doctrine with some small edits:

There are no hard and fast rules here, fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do request that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards.

Tentative posting updates are suggested at:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didnt, met other continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

Remember, these are only guidelines. What we really want are your thoughts as the game goes on, so if your strats don't fall into line with those dates, feel free to adjust your reports accordingly.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The attached zip file contains 3 versions of the worldbuilder save. Noble, Monarch, and Immortal. The WB saves are equal except starting techs for the AI ramp with level. The one labeled Noble corresponds to a game started in noble difficulty and should be used by anyone playing Settler through Prince difficulty. Monarch file = Monarch/Emporer (AI starts with Archery). Immortal file = Immortal/Deity (AI starts with Archery + 1-2 additional techs). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, I suggest checking out the BUFFY MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NCXXXIV Pericles". Choose the save related to your difficulty level as mentioned above. This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice as well custom options (no events for example). All levels and speeds are welcome...we stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Good luck!

View attachment NCXXXIV Pericles WB files.zip
 
Nice start. Settle 1E like TMIT said, build WB, work the forested deer when building a worker. Capital will be a nice GP farm.
 
Cool! This looks like a nice map!

Spoiler :
Playing on immortal and starting next to SB resulted in me only getting 4 cities up before being boxed in :(
I might have a shot at flipping his cities through culture though. But how do you do it?? Is it enough to get crazy culture in your cities next to his or do you have to actively do something?
 
Cool! This looks like a nice map!

Spoiler :
Playing on immortal and starting next to SB resulted in me only getting 4 cities up before being boxed in :(
I might have a shot at flipping his cities through culture though. But how do you do it?? Is it enough to get crazy culture in your cities next to his or do you have to actively do something?

Spoiler :
Culture flipping with Pericles works very well. You get the Creative bonus, 3 extra :culture: from the Odeon, and all those culture buildings are half price. And the Odeon has two additional Artist slots as well. The only thing you can actively do besides getting massive amounts of culture is spreading your state religion to the cities you target. And make sure you settle close, 2 tiles distance is ideal, 3 is ok, 4 is really to far. I also tend to put cities in any location I can fit them in at 2 tiles of an enemy city, even if the location is not very good. You only need to chop 2 forests to build an Odeon and a Theatre and that city is already contributing to the culture wars and most likely exceeding the culture output of the enemy city.
 
Emp Normal - 1000BC

Spoiler :


Not the best of surrounding lands I have ever seen. :)

Managed to settle 4 cities so far. capital 1E. second 2S of the cow, third for the sheep/silver/copper/deer site and 4th to the East of SB for wheat and cow. I could squeeze in a couple of fishing villages and possibly a city on the silver near Hannibal but honestly don't think I will bother. Edit ( will settle another city for the silver/deer just North of Athens).

SB is not the best neighbour to rush early with his UU and protective on a hill but that would probably be the best start. At least you can then get 2 good city sites. :)

For once I delayed my worker for a long time. Built a couple of workboats then warriors to fogbust and actually started my first settler before I had a worker. Huts I managed a scout from the first, some gold and Archery from a third before my scouts died.

Tec path. Mining, BW, Wheel, Sailing (might still try for GLh but probably to late then again I haven't chopped any woods in Athens yet). Myst, Poly, Writing, Aesth. I'm able to trade Aesth for alpha now and should be able to pick up all the missing techs. Short term aim though is to bulb Astro and head for the new world. Can't be worse than this land. :)
 
Argh!! I cannot keep up with all these NC maps (don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining :) )

But it's Saturday morning and I've got all weekend to play this one so... let the game begin.
 
4000BC: Nice start indeed. I like playing Pericles, but one of his drawbacks is that the Greek starting techs can be completely useless with some starts. Not the case here at all.
 
4000BC: Nice start indeed. I like playing Pericles, but one of his drawbacks is that the Greek starting techs can be completely useless with some starts. Not the case here at all.

It is one of my pet peeves to have a fishing civ start in the middle of a continent or all-land type map. Not sure how many of these I'll host, but any fishing civ will always start on/near the coast with at least one seafood nearby.

Isabella is actually worse, IMO. Fishing is her only starting resource tech. At least with Pericles/hunting if there are pasture resources nearby you have a leg-up on AH.

On a side note, I actually removed one ocean fish from the BFC and one coastal crab that would be in the BFC if moving one east. Noble maps can have some overloaded resource starts.

cas
 
Emp Normal - 1060AD

Spoiler :


I've played a nice peaceful game so far although a war with Hannibal might be a possibility at some time. Him attacking me that is. Atm he and Monte are at war so I'm giving/selling Monte a couple of cheap techs to try and keep him in it.

I had only planned on 4 or 5 cities on the mainland but ended up with 8. :) All apart from the capital aren't very good though although one will get the HE when I open it on the barbs on the continent.

Hannibal now has optics so I might have to speed up my settling of the other continent. Managed to get Astro in 560AD by bulbing 1 x GS on Optics and 2 on Astro helped by the only early wonder I tried for which was the GLib. The reason I kept all my forests in the capital which are mostly gone now. :) It might have been an idea to get early optics and send an explorer or 2 to the new continent and try and pop Astro as well. So far I've got a little bit of gold,angry warriors and Hbr so not a total waste. Also just taken my first barb city (plenty of forest to chop the Forbidden Palace which will be needed asap), I was tempted to raise it and settle on the river but as that gained 2 mountains it didn't seem worth it.

Tech status. This is why Education is such a good early trade tech. Normally able to pick up Guilds/Eng etc cheaply, although I would normally go for gunpowder to trade for those..



Old lands



New Lands



 

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Prince/Normal

1000BC

Spoiler :

Got lucky with initial huts hunting. Popped Mining and Farming. But what a friendly neighborhood! Once I found SB was my immediate neighbor, i made a decision that I had to beat him down with Cats. So after BW, I just beelined Construction. And it's one turn to reach this goal.

City spamming wise, got 5 cities by now. SB beated me in the first site by 1 turn. I had to settle a little south than I planned. However, with CRE, i beated in grabbing the sheep resource. And with silver access, it was actually a better site.

With Cats online soon, I'm gearing up to full war mode. Let's see if I can break through the tough NA archers and get the upper hand for the rest of the game.

Screenshot at 1000BC
Spoiler :


 

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Monarch Marathon 960BC:
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Pumped out working boats until Athens hit size 5, and then used it as a Settler/Worker pump. Managed to settle 5 cities. Corinth is probably one tile farther north than most people settle that city, but I preferred to put it in a better position to start a culture attack on Sitting Bull's city there rather than go immediately for the Copper. SB doesn't attack that much and Archers are better defenders against Dog Soldiers than Phalanxes anyway. Every one else seemed too far away to bother about at that point in time.

Spend some time building up the cities and chopped out the Pyramids in Athens after I got Mathematics. Now heading for construction to build Odeons. All my neighbors are Hindu, which kinda helps.



 
Heh, I'll bite. I've been lurking for a long time around here trying to make my No(o)ble game somewhat less embarrassing.

Anyhurp:
Spoiler :

Noble-Epic (urgh, events are on)
4000BC-1000BC

Pericles, in my humble opinion has following perks: 1. He can ignore most of the religious tech line with very little consequence. Of course he needs to trade a bit for certain pre-reqs. Also you are sorta wasting his talents if you aren't running early scientists.
We start with relevant food techs and inbuilt culture so we have nearly free rein tech-wise.

I settled one east as everyone else as this is really just the sensible thing to do and this start just call for a work boat opening. So my early build order in the glorious subarctic fishing town known as Athens was Work Boat x 3 followed by my first Settler at pop4 and then another Settler as my I know my dear neighbour Sitting Bull has his hairy eyeball on my good settling spot. Sparta is founded to claim shiny silver and fluffy sheep. Corinth is founded to gain access to delicious wine.
Early techs are:
Agriculture(for the Pottery/AH discount)
The Wheel
Pottery (so the first build in my new cities can be a granary)
Mining
Bronze Working (for Chopping/Whipping and to figure out where bronze is)
Writing (for delicious discount Libraries)
I'm not too unlucky hut-popping and gain a nice fat little nest egg to grow fat upon along with Archery.

I have by now managed to make contact with the opposition by now. Sitting Bull sits right above me and puts a big dampener on my expansive efforts. Monty is (thankfully) right above him and is the Buddhist. Hannibal is east of me and his frankly making me a bit nervous. Meanwhile Freddy, Huayna Capac and Ramesses (the Hindu) are far away, but promising me delicious tech trades. I've opened borders with everyone but Monty and I'm hoping he won't manage to found a big Buddhist bloc. Hannibal and Sitting Bull don't like each other by the way.

My new cities' build order is Granary/Worker/Archer/Library.
Meanwhile the mothership builds three workers to assist my new lands before focusing on her own development with Warrior/Library. She then builds and Archer and a Settler for my last expansive effort a . .. .. .. . ice city called Argos built to claim fur because the decadent Greek overclass demands baby seal furcoats and whatnot.
My techpath during this is:
Alphabet
Currency
Code of Laws
Looking forwards to running truckloads of scientists in Athens once the happy is provided for.

On the diplo front I managed to trade Writing to Huayna Capac and Frederick for Sailing and Alphabet to Freddy for Iron Working. Monty demanded that I teach him Writing so I sent him a team of scribes and congratulated him for seeing the light of reason. Sitting Bull wanted in on my abundant reindeer herds which I agreed to as well as I have plenty of them. Then Sitting Bull wanted me to stop fraternising with the Carthaginians which I didn't agree to as I wasn' looking into pissing them off just yet.

By 1000BC most of my cities are building Barracks and Phalanx in order to make me a less tempting target. I did one MAJOR miscalculation as I should have pushed more assertively for a settler to the Wheat/floodplains spot which Sitting Bull has now claimed.

Long term strategy:
Given the neighbourhood there is little opportunity for expansion so my hand is forced.
Astronomy is THE TARGET,
the West Indies is THE PROMISED LAND
and science is THE LIGHT!
 
@ Little Faith

Spoiler :


Not sure how your religious-diplo situation looks, but if you were the first to CoL...in my game I was able to aggressively spread confu to both Hannibal and Sitting Bull before Monty spammed bud everywhere. This has 3 advantages:
1) gets SBull and Hannibal to 'pleased' easily where they won't attack you.
2) puts SBull and Hannibal at odds with Monty to keep him busy with someone else...ie Buffer Zone.
3) with a Gprophet you can rake in some tidy cash/turn to offset your expansion costs a bit.

You will have to aggressively spread to every Hannibal city, though...or he may convert/stay with Bud. SBull is usually a little easier and helps spread the religion himself.

Don't neglect your military, but consider having one of your cities spam missionaries too. It can pay off with the eliminated DoW chance and shrine.



cas
 
Monarch Marathon 560 AD:

Spoiler :

Things are going fairly well. Got the Great Library in Athens and won the race to Optics and the accompanying global circumnavigation. Settled two more cities out east and one on the small island on the NW coast for the trade routes. Also managed to culture flip two of Sitting Bull's cities, one by running 4 artists in Cortinth, the city I explicitly founded 1 tile further north of the Copper resource for this purpose, the other by settling the GA from Music in one of the eastern cities, which was also strategically placed to culturally attack 2 of Sitting Bull's cities. That second city there will probably flip soon.

A bit of an annoyance is that I have been declared on by the Incas (probably because I used the Apostolic Palace to stop everyone trading with him), who then bribe the Germans and the Aztecs to join in. The Germans and the Aztecs are on the other side of the continent, and the Aztecs are fairly backwards, so I think I will survive fairly easily with xbows/pikemen/macemen/catapults even though I don't have horses or elephants.

At the moment I am at a bit of a crossroads. I'm very likely to win the Liberalism race, so I can either head towards Navigation and settle the New World, or I can first research Gunpowder after Education and take Steel from Liberalism, and take revenge on Monty. His capital, with the Hindu shrine, the largest religion, is not very far from our border. Hannibal is the closest to Navigation, but his capital is also close to my borders, so I might backstab him if he is getting too far. Fairly tempted to go with the second plan and put the New World a bit on the backburner.

 
@ cas

Spoiler :
My game ended in disaster around 60AD. Besides the Confucianism deal you talked about I can see following mistakes:
1. Not claiming that land east of Sitting Bull when I COULD. One city could have been a decent cottage site while the other could have claimed iron.
2. Joining the Hindu bloc when they were miles away with no trade route potential.
3. I should have stayed in Slavery for a little while longer to get stuff built as my production base was horrible. BTW, my beelines would have allowed me to have maces before anyone else which could have put a dampener on Hannibal's trigger finger.

BTW, regarding the Confucianism gambit: Given I go the Currency route to Code of Laws Isn't there a considerable chance Monty would be able to spread his religion before Confucianism arrives? I begin to think that Monty's early religions might be his most annoying trait.
 
@ Little Faith

Spoiler :

@ cas
BTW, regarding the Confucianism gambit: Given I go the Currency route to Code of Laws Isn't there a considerable chance Monty would be able to spread his religion before Confucianism arrives? I begin to think that Monty's early religions might be his most annoying trait.

Yes, in that case you need to make some lopsided tech trades every so often to Hannibal to get the +4 'our trade relations have been fair'...trade a tech for 10 gold or something. And stay out of a different religion to avoid the negative 'other faith' -2 penalty...which negates your religion civics (OR / PAC / Theo) unfortunately. That with open borders, peaceful relations, and a resource trade (over time) should get him to pleased. At pleased, he won't DoW. Then you would need to spread Conf to all his cities and bribe him into it with gold or tech.

Or you could OB with Monty and hope Bud spreads to you and then use that as your primary religion...I would only do that if Monty had already built the Bud shrine because then he is very likely to actively spread with missionaries. And that would eliminate your need to spread Conf so you could concentrate on more units. Monty is an aggressive nut though, so he may still attack you.


cas
 
It's been a while since I've played a Nobles Club game and Pericles is one of my favourite leaders. :)

I might have to give this one a go.
 
Hmmm... Not sure how this ones going to work out.

Epic/Monarch - 800 BC


Spoiler :


This is a tough map... :(

I popped a scout out of the first hut so I managed to get alot of early exploration done, it didn't take to long to realise I was stuck between sitting bull and a load of junk tundra/ice.

I pretty much tried to rex as hard as I could settling mostly to the east circling around sitting bull but still only managed to nab 5 cities spots.

I planned to beeline to Civil service through maths and code of laws but decided to divert to construction... Odeons for culture wars and catapualts for the inevitable war againts sitting bull.

I'm lagging behind in power at the moment but I'm going to start a military build up, if I can absorb sitting bulls cities then I'll be in good position if not then this is going to be a tough game.

Here's the map...




...and power (gulp)... :sad:



 
Prince/Normal

1000BC
1AD

Spoiler :

This game reminded me about NC 4 Fred. We had similiar starting position, same PHI trait, same monty in almost same relative position. However, in this game, monty was more frantic in spreading his religion than building up his army, at least not yet.

After Construction, I went on research Currency, then CoL. And I geared towards war, with 4 out of 5 cities were dedicated to units. And at 700BC, with a small stack ready, and more units on the way, i dow-ed on SB. I sacked his two prime cities in a few turns. Then, destroyed all rest of 3 cities fearing the upkeeps could drag me broke. But SB didn't die. :mad: Somehow he sneaked another city somewhere out of sight. So I offerred peace because something happened in the east got my attention.

Hannibal built The Pyramids. And I want it! Regilion wise, Fred joined Ram and SB as Hindu, and Huayna was still debating. Monty and Hanibal who were with me as Buddists. I made them be at war with Ram. So now I'm ready to back stabbing my Hanibal bro. The only problem will be, if i dow on Hanibal, nobody will like me anymore. However, with 2 good cities added, and 4 GS generated by 1AD and more are coming in a fast pace. I hope my I can get lib faster than anybody else and then have the luxury to research Chemistry and use lib to get steel then cannonize whoever still left opposing me. :lol:

So now at 1AD, I'm working on MC for all the neccessary techs to enable steel. Of cause this also helps me to enable maceman and treb along the way. I may not need them for the upcomming Carthage conquest, though.

Screenshots
Spoiler :



climb to power



Sitting Bull at large



Casualty report, i lost 9 cats and 2 Phalanx in return


Wonder list, i hope i were Ram's neighbor!!!


 
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