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This looks great, but I have to ask: Does the AI know about this?

This is beautiful and genius, if I might add.

I have some input, if you don't mind. If you want to help the AI to use it correctly, make sure that they consider any buildings that would give a healthiness/happiness bonus due to investment. So if the AI has a lot of hospitals, and hospitals give +1 healthy per 10% investment, and the AI has lots of unhealthiness, they will increase investment.

nice, I've been looking forward on seeing this on other people's mod, especially Rise of Mankind and Fall From Heaven 2. Did you by any chance make a build option for it? like when you research Alphabet, you can now be able to use 50% for ? it will be nice if you can add an additional build for it.

Oh, I just downloaded, But there's no sources in sight. Could you please upload your SDK for this?

Thanks for the sources. I working on adding it to RoM, and converting it to a game option.

I'm interested in your game option convertion.

Cybah said:

I'm interested in your game option convertion.

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It might take awhile, since I have to do python AND SDK, but I'll tell you when I'm done, for sure.

Okay, I'm now looking at your Source code, and I really dislike the way you implemented the food changes. I have some experience in that area, so I'm going to try to move them over to CvPlayer.cpp, where the thresholds are actually determined.

Edit:

More specifically, the way you coded it, your food production was partially dependent on your investment level. If I made a large change in investment, very quickly, my cities could go from growing to starving. I'm not sure how food production has to do with investment. Rather, I'm going to change it so that the threshold of food needed for the next city size gets changed, based on the investment level. This way, suddenly lowering investment doesn't basically kill a player cities. I'm sure the AI would really suffer from this as well.

Edit2:

Nice startup screen.

Wow, what a great idea!

Thanks for the sources. I working on adding it to RoM, and converting it to a game option.

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I am looking forward this.

Lord Olleus said:

No, I think you dont quite understand how its determined. Each level gives a 25% to surplus food. So investment has no effect on a city which isnt growing, some effect on a city which produces slightly more than it consumes and a larger effect if its only working loads of farms. Try it yourself in world builder.

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Hmm... that still seems a strange way to do it. Let's see if I understand

• If City X has 4 surplus food, and one investment level, it gets 5 surplus food.
  
• But, if next turn, it grows to the next size, then, then it only has 2 surplus food, which, because investment, is bumped up to 2.5 surplus food. The new citizen becomes a specialist (so no new food is added)
  
• Later, it grows again, creating another specialist, so the city has no surplus food, and nothing is added.

So, the surplus food doesn't actually help the city get larger, it just helps the city get larger, faster.

The same result could be achieved modifying thresholds then. Like I said before.

Very original mod, I must say! At least in concept and description, I haven't tried it yet. Making this into a game option would be cool, I would certainly then include it in Merged Mod! Presumably, to support the bar at "Affluent" would require a high slider setting. And how high would that be?

it will be niceif we just got a huge food slider, and with this mod, it help make my city grow bigger. I wish the slider just give me more food and not decreased unless i moved the slider, it wil help my city grow faster in no time with the help of farms, i can finally be able to have a 50+ city population.

Lord Olleus said:

More importantly it gives a continuous bonus rather than at the end. Imagine this a city is poor for 10 turns and then affluent for 10 turns (this is impossible as it would take time to get from one to other but never mind that for now). In your system if it fills its population bar when it is affluent then it doesnt matter that the city was poor before as only the conditions at the end matter. In my system the amount of investment there is every single turn matters. I'm not sure thats very clear, do you understand what I mean?

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Not really. But, I'll try. So, each turn that a city is affluent, it gets a bonus to it's surplus food, is that what you're trying to tell me?

Lord Olleus said:

From the play testing I've done I can keep a city affluent in the medieval period using around 20-25% investment, which is very high. However once you get intercontinental trade routes which boost commerce without increasing population and more buildings that multiply investment (town hall and public transportation) and more mature cottages I imagine that you might be able to keep a city affluent using 10-15% investment, which is what I've been running in my play tests and what the AI often aims for.

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Those levels seem reasonable. However, maybe you should add one more investment level for the modern era, so there is still a reason to investment. Another thing, higher investment should offer some mitigation to extreme attacks, (e.g Nukes). If your infrastructure is well built up, you should be able to get a 5% bonus against nukes per investment level. Also another idea would be that higher investment levels give protection against pillaging. That way, when an enemy attempts to pillage there is a 5% chance per investment level that the pillage will fail, and the unit will lose a turn.

Lord Olleus said:

The problem with just adding more food is that it greatly upsets game balance. There is even less incentive to build farms with it and production would sky rocket as there is no reason not to work more mines. Also having higher populations isnt more fun in itself, it just multiplies everything. You then have twice as many units, twice as many specialists, twice as many great people, tech twice as fast, ect... There's nothing new, just more of the same.

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Are you saying that this is a problem this mod suffers from, or this is a problem with adding more food in general? Either way, I agree. That is why I would modify thresholds. For example, on epic speed, a city requires 82 food (I think) to grow to size 2. 82 is the threshold the city must reach in surplus food for it to grow. If you had it so each investment level lowered the threshold by 25%, then, then the same city with level 2 investment (meager, I think), would require only 61.5 food to grow to size 2. You didn't alter the food at all doing this, just the amount of food needed to grow.

First off, really like the idea, however I got a CTD last night. I was playing as Churchill, Large Terra, Marathon Custom Game (Advanced Start, No Tech Brokering, Permanent Alliences and New Random Seed on Reload). I started with London and York, added Nottingham about 80 turns in, settling on a Cow Resource (which I think may have been what caused the problem). Well, Nottingham's food bar was full and every turn I gained another population without fail (except for me whipping a library and walls ), until Nottingham had a population of 38 or 39 and then I crashed when I clicked on end turn.

I do think I got a moose herd event in Nottingham, I'll have to try to recreate it as I didn't think to save and overwrote the autosave with testing of my own afterwards (sorry).

Lord Olleus said:

So what I see as an advantage in my mod is that rather that investment giving you, in effect, a big pay out the turn the city grows it gets accumulated more progressively.

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Okay, I see. The threshold, in theory, could be exploited. What did you think of my other thoughts, on pillaging and nuke defense?

I'm just going through your sources now, you know you can remove all those "DLL Exports." Those just slow the game down, and aren't necessary.

Oh, and you forgot CvPlayerAI.h in your sources. I had to grab Better AI's so I could compile.

I played your mod and I got to say that it looks pretty good so far... i found 2 problems

The Babylonians Unique building, Garden, does not have that +1 :happy: per 5% Investment. Only the Colluseum has that bonus.

I also got a CtD when i researched Literature and after the Apostle Palace has given the Election. I do not got a save file because auto-save lags my game up.

I wish there was more buildings that give us more investments, and that i got a build option where i turn my 50% to investments, like culture, research and wealth.

If you're still having doubts as to the name of this feature, "Public Works" is a good candidate. Your concept is also very similar in thought to the Public Works of Call to Power 2, and the name pretty much spot on represents your concept, IMHO.