Monarch Student^ VI - Willem Van Oranje

Meatbuster

Meatbuster

formerly Robo Kai
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
2,302
Location
Philippines
(Well, I tried. Perhaps I should move my starts to Thursdays.)

What's the difference between the Netherlands and the Netherworld? Are they not both the same, except that one is a land while the other is a world?

Will Orange, as I'd like to call this guy, turns out to be one of the best leaders since... er, Catherine in Vanilla. Financial is arguably the best trait in the game, while Creative is great, for fast libraries, and not needing to build monuments at all if a religion is unavailable.

(Recall how heavily criticized the Creative trait was back in the early days of Vanilla. Along with Expansive, people were largely calling this trait "useless" and only great for the early game. This was before people realized how important the early game is... and how its "snowball effect" applies to the future of a civilization. Creative trait, apparently, is more than a convenience.)

The Dutch starting techs, Agri and Fishing, will both be immediately useful for today's start.




The East Indiaman is an improved Galleon. Sadly, people are not comparing it to Praetorians. They are not bad for taking out privateers. Not that the AI builds any. With improved cargo space, it's easier to ferry colonists to an unclaimed island, or troops to any offshore rivals that need to be cut down.




The Dike is like Moai Statues in every coastal city... only better! Why not build both Moai and the Dike in the same city for double the offshore hammers? The applications of this building are multiple: army buildup, late-game wonder spam, building spaceship parts, building rersearch and wealth...



Map Settings...
Map: Standard Continents
Oppnents: 6
Sealevel: High
Climate: Tropical

Spoiler map hints, spoiler and comments :
Explore the high seas, get it? :lol:

See that offshore landmass? That's an amphibious invasion waiting to happen.
 
This is the start:



The Worldbuilder save is below. It is perfect for Monarch or Emperor starts. It's merely okay for other difficulty levels.

To play, unzip the worldbuilder file and place it in your Documents/BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game by choosing Single Player -> Play a Scenario, where you may adjust the speed and difficulty to your liking. Or Custom Scenario, if you also wish to turn off barbs or events and adjust other settings.

Let us compare strategies and progress with other players as well as learn to play. Win or lose, for better or worse, feel free to report on your glorious exploits. Perhaps other players can give you advice on your game.

Please keep your reports in spoiler tags. It's better that way.

Recommended Checkpoints:
*1000BC or 1AD or 100AD
*800AD, 1000AD or Liberalism
*1200AD or 1400AD
*Victory!

This week, we have a save with huts and no huts.
They're both in the same zip file below. :D
 

Attachments

  • MS6-Willem.zip
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+++++ settle in place. GLH and or colossus is abusive as all hell so yay.

I finally XML-wrecked events in CA so now I don't have to turn them off ever :p.
 
Hi TMIT! It seems your hatred of events has reached the breaking point. :p
I must ask about huts... is it better to turn them off for good?
And would it be better if I started each new game every Thursday instead?
 
Meatbuster said:
Hi TMIT! It seems your hatred of events has reached the breaking point. :p
I must ask about huts... is it better to turn them off for good?
And would it be better if I started each new game every Thursday instead?
Click to expand...

Start them whenever you like (hosts differ in that regard). I for one am happy to have another forum game to play, having actually done something in a SG (though unfortunately I still can't be trusted in HoF with my comp, at least the deity challengers...) and already finished the IU I put out (god that was hell).

Huts on or off is also preference. It is also something that is semi-forced, in that it takes a special worldbuilder edit to remove them. That said, it's probably better to leave them on unless you care about comparison (huts can change the game), because people who don't like them can remove them more easily than they can be added.

I still generally disable them as a host though.
 
The higher the difficulty, the more of an advantage huts are for the AI. But, I guess events aren't all bad. There's nothing like reading one of Obsolete's epic rants on how events screwed him over again. :lol:
 
dirtyparrot said:
The higher the difficulty, the more of an advantage huts are for the AI. But, I guess events aren't all bad. There's nothing like reading one of Obsolete's epic rants on how events screwed him over again. :lol:
Click to expand...

I think he and I were jockeying for that title until I turned them off permanently yesterday :p. I have some epic successes (best defense quest = diplo win!) and failures (vedic aryans, insta-dow from -diplo event, triple forest fires while trying to expand with huts off so no gold, etc). Usually they're fine, but when they hurt they hurt like losing combats at high odds...except for at the GAME level :sad:.
 
I try to live with events as they break the monotony of builder turns.
I just have a policy of deleting the Vedic Aryans regardless of who they target. :lol:
 
Immortal/Normal Events mod-out

1 AD

Spoiler :


Settled in place. Meet some unsavory neighbors straight away (only Justinian's OK, or so I thought). I settle ON the stone for some early wonder action:



I get GLH, Mids, miss Gwall but at least I had chariots to make spawn busts less annoying.







Blockage...











Slight problem here. The map is somewhat erratic, making ragnar function as a lonely heart (he's in war mode, 99% it's me because hidden modifier gayness ignores the fact that he was a heathen for a while). But, he isn't the problem.

GIVING JUSTINIAN 30% OF THE WORLD'S LAND IS A PROBLEM THOUGH :mad:. He gets double my score early, and I'm #2 on this side of the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As you'll find in later segments, this convinces me to counter gayitude with more of it. You were warned ;)!



To liberalism

Spoiler :








He tries to land on my capitol. He fails miserably since I sink his ships with triremes. Idiot.





Justinian is running away with the game but won't declare on me. Originally I was doing farms + whip infra, and was going to go military.

No. I change my mind. If the map is going to make one supergay AI, I'm going to hide from it. Anyway, I took nationalism like usual





1868 AD ...Culture without great artists...

Spoiler :






WHOOPS. I'm PRACTICALLY IMMUNE TO DOWS BECAUSE THE SUPER AI LIKES ME NOW.

Suck it, game.

I run emancipation/FS/rep (later go US/Environmentalism). I stay in OR so justinian keeps shielding me to make sure I win.











Eventually through trade I got sushi to >50 culture. Justinian capped hannibal and vicky close to the end. Also right at the end...



Must have decided to attack me while justinian was at war. Too bad I once again had DPs with both justinian and Ragnar. I never actually saw a stack, I wonder what happened to it haha (It screwed up my trades with her though).







Corps, semi-wonder spam in capitol, hermitage in 1 city, cottages. FS and the shrines were OK, could have used 2 more religions, but sushi covered.

Justinian still had fiber optics, fusion, and quite a few parts before he could launch.



But damn, culture is as boring as ever. Still a good map in a sense because it forces some thought on how to approach it. I think we'll see a lot of different looks here.

IMO culture was nerfed too hard throughout the patches. I did not send a single AI city into revolt, ever. At one point, a city was 93% mine with 5 enemy units in it. That's BS ----> it sure as hell revolts when it's MY city getting culture pressed. Doesn't really effect the VC at least.
 
I'm not so sure TMIT... maybe your events mod-out also removed other "random chance" stuff like city revolts and resource discovery in mines too?
 
Played till 1 AD


Spoiler :
I send my warrior south and settled in place. Got some gold from a hut and continued to scout south and then south-east. Got some more gold from another hut.
Finished production of a worker and started on a warrior.

At 3480 bc i meet stalin. Not sure about him since i haven’t met him in my games very much.
My warrior is still going east roughly mapping out the borders of the jungle.

At 3320 bc i see another coast to my east and find Stalins territory.

My research was mining BW. I see cow to the south and i don’t see any copper so i start AH in the hope of getting horses. Ironworking is useful for the jungle but i don’t intend to settle there yet.



At 3040 my mine north of my capital finds tin and gives 2 hammers more (yay ).
A couple of turns later and Ragnar finds me, don’t like him at all. Had him for a neighbour a couple of times and he always dow’d on me, even when friendly and sharing religions.

After AH i start on wheelpottery. Horses appear in my BFC which is nice.
I consider a chariot rush against Stalin but he starts with hunting and mining (looked that up) so he will most likely have spears by the time i get to him. Don’t know where Ragnar is.
Stalin has 2 cities so he probably has room to expand to the east since i don’t see any expansion towards my side.

At 1840 bc i meet Justin coming from the south. I also start on alphabet.
Justin founds judism i open borders with him in the hope of getting a religion. Stalin also wants open borders but he’s not getting it.



Some more turns later i notice a russian settler + axe going south in the jungle.
At 1140 bc i build the GLH. I switched to masonry during alphabet when i realised i needed it for the GLH (first time i ever build it). I consider building the pyramids but i decide to build chariots since i’m getting nervous about Stalin.





It’s now 950 bc and Justin becomes a budhist. A few more turns and i get IW and some iron shows up to the north.
At 450 bc budhism spreads but i don’t convert since Justin is jewish again and both Ragnar and Stalin have no religion yet.
I find out that Ragnar is not on the same island/continent which makes it more difficult for him to attack (lucky me). No clue where Justin is.

At 175 bc judism spreads and i convert, i now share the same religion with Justin and Stalin.

It is now 1 ad and I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I can’t trade for anything so maybe I should get mys.. and trade some techs till I get vassalage.
I don’t really want to expand south at this moment (I did find Justin to the SE) before I get a bit stronger. Usually at this point I start looking for someone to conquer but Ragnar is difficult to reach and Justin is pretty far away leaving Stalin the only candidate/victim.

I better think some more on this today.

North:




South:



tradescreen:






 
Hmm, third WvO forum game in 2 weeks (I know, the IU one was "stolen" :D )... I guess many people, me included, are having some WvO cooldown going :) Start looks tempting though... Hmm...
 
Meatbuster said:
I'm not so sure TMIT... maybe your events mod-out also removed other "random chance" stuff like city revolts and resource discovery in mines too?
Click to expand...
Only the former, resource still pops just fine w/o events. (I usually play w/o them, having a city goes 3 times into a revolt during a golden age while swapped to slavery to get some infra in was as lame as ever)
 
bestsss said:
Only the former, resource still pops just fine w/o events. (I usually play w/o them, having a city goes 3 times into a revolt during a golden age while swapped to slavery to get some infra in was as lame as ever)
Click to expand...

What, having no events prevents culture-induced city revolts? Did I read/understand that right? Or did you just mean the slave revolt event (unlike TMIT)?
 
Meatbuster said:
I'm not so sure TMIT... maybe your events mod-out also removed other "random chance" stuff like city revolts and resource discovery in mines too?
Click to expand...

Doubtful, I don't think those things are in the event trigger XML. I'll look though.

Edit: I checked it. First of all, the event trigger xml is in a separate "events" XML only present for BTS, so city revolts and resource discovery don't appear to be routed through it.

Second, I ran a search for instances of the word "revolt" in that XML file. The ONLY matches were for slave revolts, which is in fact a random event. There were no city revolt instances, so it seems like the AI either gets a boost in this regard (less garrison needed to hold off revolts) or I just got ridiculously, stupidly unlucky. I think towards the end of my game the AI had enough units stuffed in there, and I know the garrison needed varies by era, but 5 units just doesn't seem to cut it in the BCs when a city is 93% the other guy...but maybe that's how it works.

I hate culture anyway, and especially when it's pressed on me, so it's not the end of the world for me either way.
 
Silu said:
What, having no events prevents culture-induced city revolts? Did I read/understand that right? Or did you just mean the slave revolt event (unlike TMIT)?
Click to expand...

No, the culture revolts/flips dont depend on events at all. I mean slavery revolts. I'm sorry for the confusion.
Note: If you get enough espionage points you can see the chance for revolt in the city. It depends mostly on the pressure per turn and surrounding tiles. Also war drastically increases the effect of the units to suppress revolts.
 
This is my first student post and... I've only had the game a little over a week, maybe two... so... expect maaaaaany rookie mistakes :) But I'm a big Civ fan so let's see if I can't hop into Monarch :)

Spoiler :

I settle in place, head straight for a worker. My warrior moving south. Went for the wheel to hook up resources, also I hate having no roads bwetween my first two cities

Hit Ragnar on Turn 3 and prepared for war D:. I hate that guy :)

Because of Ragnar I set my sights straight for Ironworking, bypassing my normal cottage rush... Hopefully I can cut down some of these forrests too

Stalin's to the NE... also annoying D: I can't fight two wars :( But it looks like Ragnar's across the sea, wheras Stalin's Scouts came by land... might go to him first... but by the time I get to him... Ah well, we'll deal with that when we get to it...

3000 BC it was time to make my choice... Iron Working if I was going after Stalin or Sailing if I was going after Ragnar... Ragnar had the sliiightly higher score so I went Sailing... Hey, if his defenses are too strong for an early rush, I still get the extra food per water tile until he builds up enough enemies :) Looks like his capital's the best in the world too...

I took a risky move in attacking an animal on a hill with my warrior, but I wanted the double promotion for Woodsman II... He was my explorer... the extra movement would be useful... Unless he dies next turn D:

By 2500 BC my Warrior finished exploring what I now know to be the Western side of my continent so I started him following the coast northeast... Still no second city...

Speak of the devil, next turn, I settly my city :) Ignoring the computer's suggestion like the rebel that I am, I settle to the south, hoping to take advantage of Bananas, Rice, coast and river but unfortunately... mountain in the way D: I guess it gives me more protection from... you know... nobody who's down there... I changed my mind :(

Pottery next. Hard to choose between Animal Husbandry, but I'd rather get my cottages down now and come back to working... my... cows... that sounds wrong...

Expanding boarders show me iron :D This changes my plans :D Time to get a third city set :D

Third most cultured... Creative and still not number one :(

Due to my low number of workers right now ('cause I had -planned- to sea-rush Ragnar :() I'm going for Alphabet to get trading first, and I'll come back to Animal Husbandry... I'm sure Ragnar will trade me... He's probably still licking rocks for food :)

1640 and I get my next Settler... and I see that there are mountains above the iron to the north... Mmm... I head SE in hope of more iron in with better surroundings...

Stone to the East convinces me to abandon the iron and my dreams of conquest... for now... Oh look... Gold too... but... also... A scout of Justinain... And he has a religion already... I'm... going to war D: with eveyone it looks like... Maybe if I convert to Justin's religion, he'll help me in a war with Stalin, then I can say "Oh, I wasn't really Hindu... silly me..."

1200 BC and I've found Stalin and Justin... ok... Clearly It's decided now that I'm not going any further East... time to look to the north! And oh look... Justin has Iron... and gold... and furs... and Archery... and multiple cities... I can see why he's number one by about double Stalin...

Oh and for those of you who were paying attention... the second I realised I couldn't -use- the stone without Masonary... thanks for telling me :( I'm now studying Masonary.

800 B.C and I settle Rotterdam to the NE... River, silks and rice are the reason... but more because I -have- to expand in this tiny box I've been put in :( Debating whether I should've gone to the coast... Ragnar won't let me expand seawise to the west without conquest... but east might've been an option...
Ah well... done now :)

750 B.C and Hinduism's hit me... Iiiiiii'll leave it until Justin asks :) Once I've got Alphabet I can make him like me :). I'd rather have him on my hands rather than Stalin... at least Justin has levers I can pull to stop him coming after me. Stalin just likes attacking me :)

625 B.C. I've hooked up my stone and I've got The Alphabet... I'm going Mathematics, to Calendar, to hook up plantations everywhere... also... I might need cats if I have to go to war with Stalin soon... He's got the lowest score so he's the guy I want if I want to expand :)
Trade time :D
Justin's the only one who'll trade with me which suits me fine :) Wondering if I can get hunting -and- animal husbandry without giving up writing :)

500BC and Stalin's boarders are now touching mine... Time to worry... No iron, no copper no heavy weapons... I'm still using Warrirors... Choice time again... settle another city to acquire some iron, or start Investing my tech in something a little more damaging... I'll think on it... Stalin converting to Hinduism like Justin is going to be a problem... I think I'll go for settling SE, with some iron but... a little too close to Stalin for my liking... But, he's going to declare soon anyway... he doesn't like me...

Stalin has iron too D: Everyone settled the iron but me... I guess I learnt something :(

Justin's pleased with Stalin... No help coming from there unless I start gifting like crazy... And join his religion... I wonder if he'll take my first born too...

100 BC and Good news and bad news... Good news is that Justin has Barb trouble which might slow him down a bit... bad news is he founded Confusionism... I was hoping Stalin would get that and convert :(

And here's how my world looks at 100AD... because in all my descriptions I forgot to take a screenshot at 1AD... D:




I'm refusing Stalin tech because I -do- plan on taking him off the map... Jusin's pleased, but I had to give him Alphabet to get him there and he'll probably use that to tech Stalin up anyway :(... Archers for all my cities as I work my way towards cats, then longbowmen, use the iron to start building axes, or possibly macemen and start moving over Stalin... I don't like wars usually, but he's kinda bunched up so he doesn't really have anywhere to run... assuming Justin doesn't join his side... I'm going to have to join his religion... I know! I'll get Stalin to declare on me :D I'll ask for loads of tributes... that way maybe Justin won't hate me so much :D


 

Attachments

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Looks very good for a rookie game...I doubt you'll stay at monarch very long, probably headed up soon. Try to work improved tiles though I know it's hard on a map like this.
 
Immortal Normal
2nd Attempt at the map - went Deity to about 200AD first time and an angry AI superpower decided I should stop trying.

To 1AD

Spoiler :

Not feeling wordy so my set in pictures mostly. Main theme is hard coastal priority rex with a couple wonders and cheap libraries prioritized.




Whipped the wall just in case. It is getting rather late to have it available.


Started as a failure cash build, but it never failed. Went to Rep, but will likely need to go HR unless I plan to take out Ragnar quickly, which is possible. (He still has 3 cities :confused:)


Even if he takes this one day, its a nice city that simply by existing turns a profit and the 10th of this set.




First great person was a Spy. Settled him and focused Stalin. Can either steal a few techs eventually or use revolts to take him over. He has not expanded much either. He does have a few more unexplored cities in the fog I presume. They are there or the far southern tip of the continent.

Research is about 100 at break even and just started to put down cottages, which with 10 cities would normally be run away time. This game however Justinian has gone crazy. He has ~20% land area with myself at ~16%. The entire southern area is already his atm as well. He has more cities, power, tech, well more everything. Not sure what to do about that. Think take over Ragnar's island and try to out do Justinian at the "My empire is larger than your empire" game, but that has just a couple logistical problems.


Okay added this in after looking at TMIT's game. Slightly different approach for each of us and yet I actually find the score of the game interesting due to the similarities. Don't normally pay attention to them, but caught this and well it intrigued me.

 
TheMeInTeam said:
I think he and I were jockeying for that title until I turned them off permanently yesterday :p. I have some epic successes (best defense quest = diplo win!) and failures (vedic aryans, insta-dow from -diplo event, triple forest fires while trying to expand with huts off so no gold, etc). Usually they're fine, but when they hurt they hurt like losing combats at high odds...except for at the GAME level :sad:.
Click to expand...

Personally I've grown to despise random events, it seems like negative events happen far more often than positive ones. I once had the slavery event in my capital 3 times in the space of about 6 turns, and the amount of times I've had a forge burn down on the turn after whipping it in is disgusting.
 
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