Inquisitors

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

Just had a thought while playing CivIV. I was at war with Charlemagne who had the Holy City + building of Judaism. Quite a few of my cities had Judaism present and I couldn't help but get a bit annoyed by the thought that he was making money off my cities.

Wouldn't it be an idea to be able to build an Inquisitor unit of sorts that can eradicate unwanted religions, perhaps with a population-loss or something?

It's really just an idea - what do you all think?

Faladhrym · Sep 30, 2009

it would be interesting I guess... I've been in that situation myself where so enemy (or just some1 I didn't like) of mine managed to place his religion in one of my cities against my will... having the chance of building some sort of unit to abolish that would be neet, cause we only have that civic (forgot the name) that stops the spreading of religion...

Naokaukodem · Sep 30, 2009

You can also forbid right of passage, but it's a kinda drastic measure for this effect.

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

Maybe the Inquisitor unit could be built only in a Theocracy or something. I realise that no other religions can spread in your cities under a Theocracy, but quite often they would have been there already.

It would really be realistic to be able to eradicate religions from certain areas. It's been done many times throughout history.

Faladhrym · Sep 30, 2009

RobinHat said:
It would really be realistic to be able to eradicate religions from certain areas. It's been done many times throughout history.

but in doing so, surelly ur cities would have so suffer penalty, like loosing population or happiness...

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

Faladhrym said:
but in doing so, surelly ur cities would have so suffer penalty, like loosing population or happiness...

Of course. This was also mentioned in my original post.

Faladhrym · Sep 30, 2009

RobinHat said:
Of course. This was also mentioned in my original post.

lol sry, my bad, I didn't read that sentence to it's fullest

my bad

Camikaze · Sep 30, 2009

The following is an obligatory post, not necessarily my opinion on the matter:

This will never happen. Headlines of, "Strategy Game allows for the recreation of the Holocaust" and "Neo-Nazi Strategy Game" would result. However much it would be useful, it is not feasibly possible for the developers to add this into the game without damaging the game's reputation, damaging sales, and risking offending many many people. Plus, whilst it wouldn't be intended to do so, it would be used by racists to play out their fantasies.

Perhaps a better option would be to have the option to cut off all trade and money from your empire to the empire you are at war at, during war, including money from religion.

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

Well seeing as the Holocaust was not a religious cleansing, but a racial one, I don't see the connection.

The Inquisition was responsible for mass-eradication of Jews and others. Isabella managed to totally eradicate Islam from Spain...

Considering that slavery and other foul aspects of history are part of the game, I don't see why Inqisition couldn't be a part of the game on equal terms.

Camikaze · Sep 30, 2009

The media is populist and would latch onto the eradicate the Jews option, even though it differs from history. And the Holocaust is a much too sensitive topic in the modern world for this, as opposed to slavery, which isn't so much an issue nowadays. Also, for it to be a successful aspect, it would have to involve some sort of benefit for extermination. Which really isn't something that should be promoted, and would further damage the game's reputation and sales. Sure, this is true for slavery also, but again, that is not as big an issue in the world today, or at least in the would where the game is sold.

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

I suppose I'd rather say that it is sensitive in the US... (But looking at their ridiculous movie-censoring system it's not really a surprise...)

I am Jewish, and I wanted to eradicate Judaism, so tell that to the media who wouldn't like it.

Camikaze · Sep 30, 2009

Yeah, well it doesn't matter why America is ridiculous or not, or why the media is ridiculous or not, or why people are oversensitive or not, the point is that they are, and Firaxis simply cannot afford to seriously jeopardise their sales for a very small game aspect whose aims could be achieved through other avenues.

RobinHat · Sep 30, 2009

I didn't say America is ridiculous, and to be honest I don't believe it would have such a big impact.
But thanks for your imput

AndreasT · Sep 30, 2009

Camikaze said:
The following is an obligatory post, not necessarily my opinion on the matter:

This will never happen. Headlines of, "Strategy Game allows for the recreation of the Holocaust" and "Neo-Nazi Strategy Game" would result. However much it would be useful, it is not feasibly possible for the developers to add this into the game without damaging the game's reputation, damaging sales, and risking offending many many people. Plus, whilst it wouldn't be intended to do so, it would be used by racists to play out their fantasies.

Perhaps a better option would be to have the option to cut off all trade and money from your empire to the empire you are at war at, during war, including money from religion.

It would only be a lines towards the Holocaust if you did lose population in the process.
If an Inquisitor was used during the process you still have payed for taking away the religion, and when you take away a religion you get smaller bonuses in free religion.

I think it would be pretty balanced, maybe a bit lower ods on taking away the religion, say about 75% chans to take away a nonstate religion in your territory and maybe 50% to take it away enemie territory (of course only manageable with open borders)

If the only thing was changed was religion taken ther would be nothing holocaust about it and nothing against other religions.

Maybe you even could make a new victory condition, "Religous victory: The Religion founded in your country is now the only religion in the world", really hard to accomplish without conquering the hole world but pretty fun.. at least if you in some way got the computer to understand the process.

Camikaze · Sep 30, 2009

RobinHat said:
I didn't say America is ridiculous

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply that you said that, it was more my opinion.

AndreasT said:
It would only be a lines towards the Holocaust if you did lose population in the process.

Firstly, welcome to the forums! [party]

I don't think that those that would complain about the issue in the first place would really look at the intricacies of the feature. They would probably stop at the removal of Judaism bit and leave it at that. And if they did, a religious purge without population loss could easily be construed to be comparable to the Holocaust.

Tee Kay · Sep 30, 2009

Camikaze said:
Yeah, well it doesn't matter why America is ridiculous or not, or why the media is ridiculous or not, or why people are oversensitive or not, the point is that they are, and Firaxis simply cannot afford to seriously jeopardise their sales for a very small game aspect whose aims could be achieved through other avenues.

Yes, this. It's just not politically correct.

You can't abandon cities in Civ4 either IIRC, as that would be demicide or forced resettlement. I'm not sure even that razing cities would be allowed in Civ5.

Aussie_Lurker · Sep 30, 2009

Dare I recommend the following mod? It has pretty much all you could want

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Aussie.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=300619

Faladhrym · Sep 30, 2009

taillesskangaru said:
I'm not sure even that razing cities would be allowed in Civ5.

since the dawn of times generals/kings whatever razed cities for some reason, Alexander did that to... err I forgot.. Persepolis I think? Personally I don't raze normally.. but I like to have that option, people then choose it, if they want or not... they have the choice

Camikaze · Sep 30, 2009

But it only gets away with being in the game because it isn't a contemporary issue in Western society. The point isn't about historical relevance and importance, but about whether or not the game can be seen to be supporting of various acts through their portrayal of them without damaging sales and the series' reputation.

Hail · Sep 30, 2009

Camikaze said:
I don't think that those that would complain about the issue in the first place would really look at the intricacies of the feature. They would probably stop at the removal of Judaism bit and leave it at that. And if they did, a religious purge without population loss could easily be construed to be comparable to the Holocaust.

religious purge without population loss could not easily be comparable to genocide.

Faladhrym said:
since the dawn of times generals/kings whatever razed cities for some reason, Alexander did that to... err I forgot.. Persepolis I think? Personally I don't raze normally.. but I like to have that option, people then choose it, if they want or not... they have the choice

abandoning a city of no more than some size should definitely be an option in civ5.

Camikaze said:
[...] The point isn't about historical relevance and importance, but about whether or not the game can be seen to be supporting of various acts through their portrayal of them without damaging sales and the series' reputation.

i should have the option. how come devs decide for me what's appropriate and what is not?

anyway, i support the idea of religious cleansing and ethnic(or by nationality) cleansing. but i think that instead of a unit, there should be a button on the city screen that allows to activate the "cleansing" mode of the ethic or religion of your choice, provided at least one of the citizens has it.

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