Favorite Modmod AND WHY!

Why I like Orbis

Mechanos
-Steampunk
-use refined mana as a power source (build a refinery on a Mana and it turns into refined Mana which gives increased discovery chance and science+ to because they can't use other Mana)

Guilds/Espionage
-Guilds are useful and have special abilities
-you can do wicked things with Espionage especially as the Sidar or Svartalfar!

Pagan Temples
-every civ has a UNIQUE pagan temple which gives all sorts of cool bonuses

Archery/Siege is useful
-Ranged attack is nice, especially on Howitzers (Mechanos UU) and obliterate a city with it

Nicer Tech-tree
-more... I don't know how to express it but I like it better than FFH2 and FF

Forts
-Forts upgrade and have fort commanders and stuff, also give good yields with the right techs and civics, also very useful for bashing an invading SoDs from like 2 tiles away!

Aduars/Enclaves
-Aduars are like upgradeable pastures for deserts and the Malakim get a very awesome version, the Hippus get bonuses too

Knights!
-there are different promotions for knights based on religion and have a chance of revolting if you adopt an opposite religion and have unique (for the religion) bonus

Civs are more Unique!
-just more differentiation between civs (except for Mazatl/Cualli)

Mazatl/Cualli Merge
-Way to similar made it easier for them to get merged and you get access to the Mazatl stuff with good alignment and Cualli with evil!

civ_king said:

Why I like Orbis

Mechanos
Guilds/Espionage
Pagan Temples
Archery/Siege is useful
Nicer Tech-tree
Forts
Aduars/Enclaves
Knights!
Civs are more Unique!
Mazatl/Cualli Merge

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Think you could describe them, and then how they're so awesome that it warrants an entirely new thread? Telling me that the civs are more unique doesnt help, and I have no idea what an Aduar is, nor do I understand why Pagan Temples are on your list when all the mods have em.

Yeah, I was sorta expecting something more 'expanded' when I looked at this thread...

what they said

civ_king said:

Why I like Orbis

Mechanos
Guilds/Espionage
Pagan Temples
Archery/Siege is useful
Nicer Tech-tree
Forts
Aduars/Enclaves
Knights!
Civs are more Unique!
Mazatl/Cualli Merge

Click to expand...

1 - In FFPlus as well, although Ahwaric created them.
2 - Guilds are in FF/FFPlus, and not nearly as OP
4 - Ranged Combat came from FF, I believe
6 - Fort changes are in FFPlus as well... With Fort Commander UU's thrown in. Again, merged from Orbis.
9 - That's what started FFPlus. First Malakim, then Doviello, then D'tesh, then Vermicious and the Jotnar.
10 - This one I really dislike, personally.... Although that's a personal thing. Prefer to see civs made more unique, than thrown together because they aren't unique enough.

You mean guilds are useless in FF?
Yes, they're a bit overpowered in Orbis for now, but I guess it will change. Ahwaric just has to let it go and finally make some of them compete!

Also, don't worry, everyone loves FFPlus
(I do, except for one thing: what with the awful slowdown I get each damn turn? DURING the turn! Are you abusing some python callbacks?)

But this should have been in the other 'fav modmod?1' thread.

updated my post by including explanations!

civ_king said:

Why I like Orbis

Mechanos
-Steampunk
-use refined mana as a power source (build a refinery on a Mana and it turns into refined Mana which gives increased discovery chance and science+ to because they can't use other Mana)

Guilds/Espionage
-Guilds are useful and have special abilities
-you can do wicked things with Espionage especially as the Sidar or Svartalfar!

Pagan Temples
-every civ has a UNIQUE pagan temple which gives all sorts of cool bonuses

Archery/Siege is useful
-Ranged attack is nice, especially on Howitzers (Mechanos UU) and obliterate a city with it

Nicer Tech-tree
-more... I don't know how to express it but I like it better than FFH2 and FF

Forts
-Forts upgrade and have fort commanders and stuff, also give good yields with the right techs and civics, also very useful for bashing an invading SoDs from like 2 tiles away!

Aduars/Enclaves
-Aduars are like upgradeable pastures for deserts and the Malakim get a very awesome version, the Hippus get bonuses too

Knights!
-there are different promotions for knights based on religion and have a chance of revolting if you adopt an opposite religion and have unique (for the religion) bonus

Civs are more Unique!
-just more differentiation between civs (except for Mazatl/Cualli)

Mazatl/Cualli Merge
-Way to similar made it easier for them to get merged and you get access to the Mazatl stuff with good alignment and Cualli with evil!

Click to expand...

Once more, I still dont understand some of the things that you've said. Lets go down the list.

The Mechanos
The Mechanos are a Steampunk civ with their own religion, the Ordo Mechanos, and are unable to adopt any others. They have access to two heroes, Feris the Sniper and the Goliath, which could be considered the War Machine if it was really built by people who know how to build machines. The refined mana comes from their lack of spell casters, instead replacing them with Techpriests that function in the same way as normal mages but without the need to hassle with mana nodes, creating Refineries on raw mana instead, which gives a hefty bonus to the tile in terms of hammers and commerce. At least, thats what FF+ has, what can you tell me of the Orbis Mechanos?

Guilds
What guilds? Are they like the Ratcatchers from old, the Kingfisher's Wharf, and Fabricaforma, or something else? What benefits do they provide and more importantly, why are they a useful feature in the game?

Espionage
Kael left this out for a reason, what kind of boost does it provide, and is it just a Svart/Sidar mechanic? What kind of missions can you perform with your spies?

Pagan Temples
So, even the Grigori have temples, and if so, what kind of temples are there and what types of bonuses?

Archery/Siege
And it isnt useful already? Archery becomes a useful way to defend cities, Siege is useful for taking them. Mechanos Howitzers are very powerful when you get them, but they're late game units IIRC.

Knights
So, you're saying that if the unit is a Knight, it can get bonuses for following a religion? Why just Knights?

Unique Civs / Lizardmen Merge
How so? More UUs? Better rewards for following the flavor? How did the two lizards get combined into one civ?

Korias said:

Once more, I still dont understand some of the things that you've said. Lets go down the list.

Click to expand...

Main advice: try Orbis. It will answer your questions more than anyone else.

The Mechanos
The Mechanos are a Steampunk civ with their own religion, the Ordo Mechanos, and are unable to adopt any others. They have access to two heroes, Feris the Sniper and the Goliath, which could be considered the War Machine if it was really built by people who know how to build machines. The refined mana comes from their lack of spell casters, instead replacing them with Techpriests that function in the same way as normal mages but without the need to hassle with mana nodes, creating Refineries on raw mana instead, which gives a hefty bonus to the tile in terms of hammers and commerce. At least, thats what FF+ has, what can you tell me of the Orbis Mechanos?

Click to expand...

They don't have an own religion in Orbis, they're full agnostics. They have Feris, Goliath and Boris as heroes.

Guilds
What guilds? Are they like the Ratcatchers from old, the Kingfisher's Wharf, and Fabricaforma, or something else? What benefits do they provide and more importantly, why are they a useful feature in the game?

Click to expand...

They're like BTS guilds: using resources to give yields/commerces. Some Headquarters give free promotions to units too.

There is ~8 guilds: Transmuters, Circle of Eight, Three-Field Order, Hansa, Guild of Arches, Guild of Prospectors, Globe Troupe...

Espionage
Kael left this out for a reason, what kind of boost does it provide, and is it just a Svart/Sidar mechanic? What kind of missions can you perform with your spies?

Click to expand...

Well, maybe Kael was wrong? Espionage is made more interesting with SuperSpies, a component allowing spies to gain xp and promotions to become more effective. I don't remember any benefits for Sidar or Svarts more than a few EP more though.

Pagan Temples
So, even the Grigori have temples, and if so, what kind of temples are there and what types of bonuses?

Click to expand...

I don't remember what is the Grigori temple... There's a lot of different temples, one per civ, it's a bit of a hassle to list them, just go try it. But it's mostly modifiers to culture, food, science and the like, bonus XP, slots for specialists and free promotions.

Knights
So, you're saying that if the unit is a Knight, it can get bonuses for following a religion? Why just Knights?

Click to expand...

Simulating Knightly Orders.

Unique Civs / Lizardmen Merge
How so? More UUs? Better rewards for following the flavor? How did the two lizards get combined into one civ?

Click to expand...

Cualli are evil, Mazatl are good. We're maybe thinking of developping a Neutral side as well. I personally think they shouldn't be called Mazatl nor Cualli at all. It just confuses people.

Korias said:

Once more, I still dont understand some of the things that you've said. Lets go down the list.

The Mechanos
The Mechanos are a Steampunk civ with their own religion, the Ordo Mechanos, and are unable to adopt any others. They have access to two heroes, Feris the Sniper and the Goliath, which could be considered the War Machine if it was really built by people who know how to build machines. The refined mana comes from their lack of spell casters, instead replacing them with Techpriests that function in the same way as normal mages but without the need to hassle with mana nodes, creating Refineries on raw mana instead, which gives a hefty bonus to the tile in terms of hammers and commerce. At least, thats what FF+ has, what can you tell me of the Orbis Mechanos?

Click to expand...

They were changed a bit, with the Religion being the most glaring factor.

They also have another hero, Lenora (Blimp hero), and are blocked from one of their Orbis heroes, Boris, who is only available to non-Mechanos civs following the Ordo Machinarum.

Opera said:

Main advice: try Orbis. It will answer your questions more than anyone else.

SNIP

Well, maybe Kael was wrong? Espionage is made more interesting with SuperSpies, a component allowing spies to gain xp and promotions to become more effective. I don't remember any benefits for Sidar or Svarts more than a few EP more though.

I don't remember what is the Grigori temple... There's a lot of different temples, one per civ, it's a bit of a hassle to list them, just go try it. But it's mostly modifiers to culture, food, science and the like, bonus XP, slots for specialists and free promotions.

Simulating Knightly Orders.

Cualli are evil, Mazatl are good. We're maybe thinking of developping a Neutral side as well. I personally think they shouldn't be called Mazatl nor Cualli at all. It just confuses people.

Click to expand...

I'll give Orbis a try, but I was simply trying to get an idea of some of the things that Civ_king should have posted when he originally made this thread in order to emphasize why these things are awesome, not just what they are and a one line description.

I was also not trying to instigate a flame war, please dont be mad at me. I was simply stating that Kael deliberately left out Espionage and having it mentioned deserved some explanation as to why it has become a mechanic that makes the game more fun.

Likewise, I'm not trying to get a full list, just trying to see some examples to show how Orbis makes the Pagan Temple a more interesting early building, which if mentioned in a thread proclaiming Orbis as a really awesome modmod outside of the Orbis subforum, the thread should at least give an example to give others a general idea of how you made the idea more unique.

Sorry, I didn't intend my post to sound harsh! I just meant that playing is more useful than getting a description

Orbis is a great mod. I like most of the features... I personally can't get past the tech-tree (Limited time to actually PLAY the game, don't wanna relearn the whole tree. ), but aside from that it's excellent... And that's more of a personal thing than an issue with the mod itself.

That said, I agree, explanations should be given if you're explaining why a mod is your favorite. Should also make sure to play other mods, as often the same feature, or a very similar one, will exist.

Valkrionn said:

Orbis is a great mod. I like most of the features... I personally can't get past the tech-tree (Limited time to actually PLAY the game, don't wanna relearn the whole tree. ), but aside from that it's excellent... And that's more of a personal thing than an issue with the mod itself.

That said, I agree, explanations should be given if you're explaining why a mod is your favorite. Should also make sure to play other mods, as often the same feature, or a very similar one, will exist.

Click to expand...

I've played FF and FF+ and I find FF+ superior

I've played FF and FF+ and I find FF+ superior

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im sorry but did you even read your own threads title? WHY man? why is FF+ superior?

i mean, i agree there are a lot of cool things in FF+ (the ones that jump out at me are the fort commanders, i love those guys. especially the ability to have pockets of culture around forts and being able to bombard adjacent enemies. im also really excided for the Bezeri race that Valk said he was working on, i dont know much about them though to explain about them.)

but the fort commanders are also in Orbis, which i find better because it is less buggy and faster (opera mentioned the turn times in FF+ being slow as and i agree).

but seriously, read the thread title! i find it even more funny that its your own thread...

[/rant]

(i apologise if i sound patronising/flaming and all. but this just bugged me

thinks i like about orbis:

-corporations, maybe somewhat overpowered but definitly fun and add to the game.

-knightly orders (extra promotion for your mounted units dependant on religion/what civ you play) / being able to mount your paladins or eidolons on horses.

-generally high level of polish and good documentation (for a mod). encountered very few bugs and there s few things that are not somewhat explained by the pedia at least by counting 1+1 together.

-3 food per citizen - i approve of any try to limit FFHs "megacities" even though its still a bit rough and has some imbalances concerning improvements / civics.
as i read in the latest changelog there have also measures been taken against elven megacities via FoL.

-archers. ranged combat is in/from FF but unlike there you can actually get some decent xp (in some instances overpowered) with it in orbis and thus make archers a solid choice. you can somewhat exploit it but i dont think its that big of a deal considering how many things there are in FFH that you can exploit vs the AI.

things i dislike about orbis:

-magic. druids can get maelstrom, highpriests of order can get pillar of fire, basically any divine units gets more spells than in base FFH or FF(+). meanwhile the tech tree for arcane is longer than in FF+ so you get to your archmages even later (at a point at which they are fairly useless unless you re abusing affinities or flesh golems). there s really no reason to focus in magic much unless you re playing death-addicted sheaim i feel. (arcane) magic could really use some help.

-too many xp bonuses from buildings and most importantly settled great generals.
lategame i usually have a city spamming units with 30 starting (40+ actually with altar of luonatar or ride of the nine kings) xp and a free drill promotion (from citatel).

-no shadowriders (one of my favourite units). esus got some special promotions instead but they are also in FF+ (actually slightly better IMHO) along WITH shadowriders.

things i like about FF+

-great generals & the xp system: the whole system is a bit rough around the edges still but overall i love it. using the recruit ability is actually usefull since while those units may start with 0 xp they can at least train up to 10 in a city with the important buildings. and all the promotions those commanders can get their troops are interesting and fun to play with. i have some minor beefs with it, but overall its a cool concept.

-remade civilizations. malakim and doviello are amazings civs in FF+. but also bannor, amurites, and possibly many more i havent even played yet. civs that are rather boring in vanilla FFH or orbis (though to give credit where its due, orbis also made some improvements to old civs ) got great revamps, so i d have a hard time replaying them in vanilla or another mod.

-master buildings and equipment promotions: good stuff mostly. really enjoy them.

-siege units. really usefull for taking cities but dont do much outside of that. just as it should be.

-pact of nilhorn. almost useless in orbis, very fun in FF+ thanks to giant-aging promotions, them being melee units able to equip bronze and iron weapons etc. etc.

things i dislike about FF+

-tons of small bugs and undocumented features (in comparision to vanilla FFH and orbis). luckily nothing gamebreaking but its annoying at times.

-archers. unless you re using them like melee units, you cannot really level them much above maybe lvl 4 or 5 as ranged xp AND defending xp are seriously gimped compared to attacking xp. maybe i m spoiled from orbis though.

-probably the insane animal activity in the latest version but only played one game so far ( meeting 13 STR bear packs with 3 movement points at turn 50 )
but i ll reserve judgment until later )


anyhow ... both mods are really good and while i prefer FF+ now that comes mostly thanks to revamps of my favourite civs - cant imagine playing bannor without chain of command anymore, cant imagine playing doviello without units challenging each other, etc. etc. etc. .... i dont give a crap about any new civ but scions (which is why i ignored for FF for so long, thinking its mostly for adding new civs i dont need/want) - its fleshing out "old" civ that i want the most in FFH mods.

heck if i had the time/skills myself, i d make a mod where i d MERGE some civs in order to have something like "only" a dozen of civs, but each of them as different from the other as possible and with much more "options" for the different paths.

I have a small preference for Orbis over FF for the moment, because I find their economic changes more interesting (population needing 3 food, how they changed the value of most tiles, how buildings improve income, etc...) and the game more balanced overall.

I'm less convinced about some of their changes to the tech tree, as in some situations their choices can be a pain (ie : the ability to enter the ocean is too far in the tech tree, so if you start on an island with more than 3 tiles to cross to reach a continent you are doomed).

Now I have the same problem with these two modmods, which has made me go back to vanilla FFH2 after 2 or 3 games on each : I like huge maps and the length of turn resolution is far too long on big maps, and since the beginning of the game, both with FF or Orbis ; and in FF sometimes there are even freezes in the middle of turns.

I think the first priority should be for them two to merge in the CAR mod, and/or find another way to make signifiant performance progress.

My definitive favorite modmod will be the one succeeding to optimize its code to avoid to make turns 4 or 5 times longer than in vanilla FFH2.

Psychic_Llamas said:

im sorry but did you even read your own threads title? WHY man? why is FF+ superior?

i mean, i agree there are a lot of cool things in FF+ (the ones that jump out at me are the fort commanders, i love those guys. especially the ability to have pockets of culture around forts and being able to bombard adjacent enemies. im also really excided for the Bezeri race that Valk said he was working on, i dont know much about them though to explain about them.)

but the fort commanders are also in Orbis, which i find better because it is less buggy and faster (opera mentioned the turn times in FF+ being slow as and i agree).

but seriously, read the thread title! i find it even more funny that its your own thread...

[/rant]

(i apologise if i sound patronising/flaming and all. but this just bugged me

Click to expand...

Valk was asking if I played the other modmods and I was saying I did

civ_king said:

Valk was asking if I played the other modmods and I was saying I did

Click to expand...

Actually, I wasn't.

What I meant was, explanations should be provided for why you find one mod's features superior over another's, with the secondary point that you should also try other mods first, so that you have the ability to make comparisons.

For example, there's a discussion going on in the FFPlus forum about ranged attacks granting xp. In Orbis, they grant a relatively large amount (.5 per attack), while in FF(Plus) they grant very little, because it's very easily exploitable.

When you say you prefer Orbis for it's ranged attacks, is that one of the reasons? If so, mention it! If we can put together a good thread, with well thought-out explanations of why you prefer mechanics from one mod over another, it will help all of the modders improve their own mods.


Of course, the 'you' here is generic, to make a point. Not meaning to pick on anyone here... Unless it's Opera, in which case I'm okay with it.

Valkrionn said:

Unless it's Opera, in which case I'm okay with it.

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Not sure how to react here. Are you just fooling with me or are you meaning I didn't make my point?