Nukes

Hi,
I'd make a suggestion about how ICBMs and Tactical Nukes are working now: when you drop a nuke on a city which contains ICBMs or TNs, those are never destroyed. I think there SHOULD be chance to destroy them anyway, making a "first strike" more attractive. I don't mean they should be destroyed 100% sure. But there should be a chance. This way, civs should build TN and use subs and spread TNs across the globe to maintain a "second strike capability" which should make a preemptive strike less attractive. I know I'm saying that the "first trike" should be made more attractive and less attractive at the same time (more ore less), but that's how it worked in real life. This means also that maybe other kinds of TN should be developed with longer range because the range they have now is far too limited on a huge sized map.
To make nukes even more interesting, it would be perfect if someone could adapt the old MAD mod, which allowed to select a group of targets for ICBMs, which would be automatically launched to preselected targets when attacked by nukes.
One last thing, maybe there should be some harder effect when a nuclear war is in progress, at least when a LOT of nukes are used: in my last MP games I dropped about 80 nukes I think (and other were dropped by other civs) and beside some tiles turning to desert and some unhappy people, I had no problems. Some kind of hard GLOBAL effect should hit the world when more than 100 nukes (for example) are used.
What do you think?

I never really noticed nukes were never destroyed after a first strike. But yes , I agree with you, there ought to be a chance, like 50%.

And about harder effects of nuclear armagedon I totally agree as well. Perhaps make a 1-100 counter, much like Fall From Heaven 2 has with it's "Chaos meter". And say every time a nuke goes off it could add 7 points to the counter and when it reaches 100 a script is triggered to subtract -1 food on all tiles on the map. Then counter reset and process starts all over. Cool idea

45°38'N-13°47'E;8535045 said:

Hi,
One last thing, maybe there should be some harder effect when a nuclear war is in progress, at least when a LOT of nukes are used: in my last MP games I dropped about 80 nukes I think (and other were dropped by other civs) and beside some tiles turning to desert and some unhappy people, I had no problems. Some kind of hard GLOBAL effect should hit the world when more than 100 nukes (for example) are used.
What do you think?

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I second for that part. Maybe after x nukes (don't have idea for that number) automatically became a global enemy, so no foreign trade routes and no technology leaking (emargo).

And also need some changes with fallout handling. Now, with Ecology, you can clean up the mess. I think this is wrong.
I dont know now the fallout spreads or not, but it sould be.
With Nuclear power technology, the worker can make a sarcophagus on fallout, to stop the spread, but the title remains unusable.
The cleanup became possible with Nanobotic tech.

cr0ws said:

I never really noticed nukes were never destroyed after a first strike. But yes , I agree with you, there ought to be a chance, like 50%.

And about harder effects of nuclear armagedon I totally agree as well. Perhaps make a 1-100 counter, much like Fall From Heaven 2 has with it's "Chaos meter". And say every time a nuke goes off it could add 7 points to the counter and when it reaches 100 a script is triggered to subtract -1 food on all tiles on the map. Then counter reset and process starts all over. Cool idea

Click to expand...

IMHO speed of that effect should depend on size of map.
Second thought - I am against global effects - they should be more or less local - I don't like idea of -1 food on all tiles. Maybe global warming (like in CTP) or spreading/moving fallout cloud?

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

I second for that part. Maybe after x nukes (don't have idea for that number) automatically became a global enemy, so no foreign trade routes and no technology leaking (emargo).

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I don't like automaic decisions - some of non-nuked countries could not want to mess with most dangerous enemy. Or they could even find some possitives in still trading with him.

Gewar said:

I don't like automaic decisions - some of non-nuked countries could not want to mess with most dangerous enemy. Or they could even find some possitives in still trading with him.

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I don't like too, but now there is no embargo in diplomacy. And I think it's MUCH easier to implement a new global effect (BTW this feature is already implemented in a civic), than impement a new possiblility in diplomacy. What about a new UN resolution?

UN resolution is much better - you (an AI) can always decline it if you decided it's better solution.

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

I second for that part.

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Maybe because you were the target of my 80 nukes?

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Maybe after x nukes (don't have idea for that number) automatically became a global enemy, so no foreign trade routes and no technology leaking (emargo).

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I think that's a bit extreme. Every nuke makes people unhappy in your country and when we were finishing our last game, after I dropped my last nuke on you, I was almost having revolts in every city. I was fearing having revolutions and rebels in every city but luckily for me you decided to make peace with me!

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

And also need some changes with fallout handling. Now, with Ecology, you can clean up the mess. I think this is wrong.
I dont know now the fallout spreads or not, but it sould be.
With Nuclear power technology, the worker can make a sarcophagus on fallout, to stop the spread, but the title remains unusable.
The cleanup became possible with Nanobotic tech.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with this; AFAIK fallout doesn't spread in RoM, but there should be a chance it spreads in some adjacent squares. And yes, cleanup should be possible late in the game so that if a cold war becomes a nuclear war, civs will have to struggle and yet to keep on researching techs to clean the mess. But I think fallout should affect EVERY civ or almost so (depending on the distance from the nuclear war), not just the 2 involved in nuclear war; that way a nuclear winter would be realistic.
Of course this shouldn't be the case of 3-4 nukes used, but when we're talking about dozens of them.
And I agree, effects should depend on map size, definetly.

Gewar said:

UN resolution is much better - you (an AI) can always decline it if you decided it's better solution.

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Actually from what I see, there IS a chance with the UN to declare war to a single civ or to propose an embargo, or to force them to give a away a single city; but that options never worked in RoM, from what I've seen.

Gewar said:

IMHO speed of that effect should depend on size of map.
Second thought - I am against global effects - they should be more or less local - I don't like idea of -1 food on all tiles. Maybe global warming (like in CTP) or spreading/moving fallout cloud?
.

Click to expand...

Global warming, If I recall correctly, in Call to power resulted in randomly downgrading a tile's quality throughout the map turning grassland into plains, plains into desert, etc etc, beach tiles would turn into coasts. I read somewhere such an action is not possible in BTS, but I could be mistaken.

cr0ws said:

Global warming, If I recall correctly, in Call to power resulted in randomly downgrading a tile's quality throughout the map turning grassland into plains, plains into desert, etc etc, beach tiles would turn into coasts. I read somewhere such an action is not possible in BTS, but I could be mistaken.

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Actually, RoM 2.8 will have this new feature, taken from the Global Warming Mod.

45°38'N-13°47'E;8535201 said:

I totally agree with this; AFAIK fallout doesn't spread in RoM, but there should be a chance it spreads in some adjacent squares. And yes, cleanup should be possible late in the game so that if a cold war becomes a nuclear war, civs will have to struggle and yet to keep on researching techs to clean the mess. But I think fallout should affect EVERY civ or almost so (depending on the distance from the nuclear war), not just the 2 involved in nuclear war; that way a nuclear winter would be realistic.
Of course this shouldn't be the case of 3-4 nukes used, but when we're talking about dozens of them.
And I agree, effects should depend on map size, definetly.

Click to expand...

Well currently I'm looking into feature movement for my ANM mod for the bio clouds but I could include the fallout feature as well. I like the idea of the nuke counter stated above and use that for the nuclear winter, a chance (depending on map size, speed and number of nukes used) a random tile could spontaneously turn to tundra. The nuclear winter idea will have to wait after version 2.2 since I am already getting slightly overwhelmed from college (top priority), 2.8 updates, etc.

cr0ws said:

Global warming, If I recall correctly, in Call to power resulted in randomly downgrading a tile's quality throughout the map turning grassland into plains, plains into desert, etc etc, beach tiles would turn into coasts.

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You recalled correctly. Civilization: Call to Power also had global flooding (which could destroy cities) and polluted tiles randomly placed, as well as a Wonder which removed all pollution, which ended global warming, Ecopacts (stop war and take effort to reduce pollution), and a screen where global warming could be measured. I do not think the global flooding mechanic should be added, or at least could be turned off.