Civ V: Manifestos

I was thinking of an idea for the next civilization game, “manifestos”, I think it would be cool if they incorporated this into the next game. Much like the random events that put you on missions in Civ 4, the next installment should expand on this, but allow you to pursue it at your own accord.

For example, imagine, you can settle a number of great people in a certain city to activate a quest for completing manifesto or doctrine, (i.e. manifest destiny, Comtern, The Project for the New American Century, etc.) Once completed it could give you a substantial boost, or even allow you to win the game. To expand on this idea further more, if you do decide to purse a certain manifesto, it should weaken or strengthen relations with other nations. This could help create a sense of polarity in the game, a real life example, the Cold War. This can also be used as a means to vassal sympatric states that believe in your cause. (On a side note, I think it would be cool if vassal states changed their color to a lighter version of the master state’s color)

Your thoughts, any ideas to expand on this? I was thinking about this in the shower this morning, so I’m still trying to make this more concrete.

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Here is an idea we have formulated through discussion, we are trying to put together an "ideology system" similar to that of State Religions, much like the ones in the WW II scenario, but further in depth of game play and detail. So far, we came up with what you see below in the outline, if you have any suggestion or ideas, please share them.

"Because like in the real world, after the days of religious fundamentalism, we now have political fundamentalism" -Me, post #11

Updated on 11/20/09

Idealogy system

Capitalism

Tent Civic: Free Market

“Holy Building” Wealth of Nations

Conflicts with Socialism (State Property)

Socialism

Tent Civic: State Property

“Holy Building”: Communist Manifesto

Conflicts with Capitalism (Free Market)

(Jeffersonian) Democracy

Tent Civic: Universal Suffrage, Free Religion

“Holy Building”: The Bill of Rights

Conflicts with Fascism (Police State, Theocracy)

Fascism

Tent Civic: Police State, Theocracy

“Holy Building”: (Proposed ideas: Fascist Manifesto, March on Rome, Mein Kampf)

Conflicts with (Jeffersonian) Democracy (Universal Suffrage, Free Religion)
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"Missionaries": Party Representatives

Also, if you decide to pursue certain doctrines, you should be locked into certain civics, for example, if you are on a quest to spread communism through out the globe, you can’t have any other economic civic besides State Property, or you will fail. Or if you are going for manifest destiny, if a foreign Civ decides to settle on your continent, it will immediately lock you in a state of war, talks of peace will only be allowed until that city is occupied or removed.

setting and pursuing doctrines is an interesting and original idea. however polarity can be achieved even now, by making nations like and/or dislike each other based on how much "close" their sets of civics are. spreading communism is possible, but there is no point in it.

Hail said:

setting and pursuing doctrines is an interesting and original idea. however polarity can be achieved even now, by making nations like and/or dislike each other based on how much "close" their sets of civics are. spreading communism is possible, but there is no point in it.

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I agree with you on the communist part, I favor a moderately regulated free market personally. But i figure it would be a cool idea for players to want to purse a Comtern, to achieve a super-state, and ultimately disbanding it to create a proletariat ruled stateless world, in turn winning the game.

Hail said:

setting and pursuing doctrines is an interesting and original idea. however polarity can be achieved even now, by making nations like and/or dislike each other based on how much "close" their sets of civics are. spreading communism is possible, but there is no point in it.

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Cool idea, but I agree with this. Civics are in the game basically to represent this ideological spread. You can bribe other civs to adopt your civics, and you can conquer or vassalise them, and then have more control over what civics they use. Perhaps an idea may be that you directly control the civics of your vassal, although this could be open to exploitation, so would have to be limited to an extent. But yeah, cool idea, but I don't think it's necessary.

I was thinking also, the UN resolutions should include the ability the impose the other civics and not just the latter ones. But imposing universal barbarism would be kind of odd, maybe excluding some of them would be necessary.

Emperor Giulio said:

I was thinking also, the UN resolutions should include the ability the impose the other civics and not just the latter ones. But imposing universal barbarism would be kind of odd, maybe excluding some of them would be necessary.

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I definitely agree with this. I mean, sure, in a modern context in real life it may not seem realistic, but seeing as the game is offering alternative histories, why not?

I think ideologies would be better represented by adding say..6 additional religions* which do not compete with the other 6 but compete within themselves. I'm thinking Communism, Fascism, Capitalism, Anarchism, Pacifism, and Agorism. This could somewhat tie into the UN by making each Ideology bloc have it's own UN after all I doubt a Communist will be listening to what some Fascist is telling him to do. Or make it like the AP where only 1 can be built for just that Ideology, though I prefer the idea of retooling it to allow 6 and call it a *Insert Ideology* Congress of Nations or something.

KeloGBites said:

I think ideologies would be better represented by adding say..6 additional religions* which do not compete with the other 6 but compete within themselves. I'm thinking Communism, Fascism, Capitalism, Anarchism, Pacifism, and Agorism. This could somewhat tie into the UN by making each Ideology bloc have it's own UN after all I doubt a Communist will be listening to what some Fascist is telling him to do. Or make it like the AP where only 1 can be built for just that Ideology, though I prefer the idea of retooling it to allow 6 and call it a *Insert Ideology* Congress of Nations or something.

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That would be cool, that's how they sorta did it in the WW II senario with Communism being in moscow, democracy being in washington DC, etc.

Yeah, that's a good idea. It could be worked into civics somehow.

Camikaze said:

Yeah, that's a good idea. It could be worked into civics somehow.

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Perhaps if you adopt a certain (state religion-esqe) ideology, it should lock you into a “tenet civic”, for example, if you adopt Democracy as a ideology, you will have to be locked into Universal Suffrage, and when you force another Civ to “convert” to your ideology, they will have to as well. (i.e. the U.S. occuppied Iraq) Because like in the real world, after the days of religious fundamentalism, we now have political fundamentalism, maybe even certain, Manifestos or documents can allow you to find an “Ideology”. Although, you should be able to find as many ideologies as you want, but some may not be able to run concurrently with other, say you find Socialism, and Capitalism, you should be allowed to find both, but only one should be able to be applied if they are conflicting.

As for spreading the ideology's influence, there can be political party "missionaries" (don't know what to call them)

To go even further with the UN’s abilities, imagine you had resolutions to ban certain ideologies, like say, the world can vote to ban Fascism, but a defiant Civ can enable it triggering war, embargos, or hostile relations

The missionaries could probably just be called Revolutionaries or Representatives or something. Heh I'd like the idea of seeing the UN actually triggering a World War. It would make sense to work it into civics, only thing is wouldn't the ideologies also need a new civic bar?

KeloGBites said:

The missionaries could probably just be called Revolutionaries or Representatives or something. Heh I'd like the idea of seeing the UN actually triggering a World War. It would make sense to work it into civics, only thing is wouldn't the ideologies also need a new civic bar?

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Maybe even be able to use the Banned civics, but doing so will get you kicked out of the UN and considered a rogue nation, effectively making your rivals hostile toward you with a great cost, something like -10 relations.

As for new civic bars, I don’t think it would be necessary, the ones already intact are sufficient. The difference would be the ideologies would leave you locked in that particular civic, i.e. the utilization of Capitalism will make you locked into Free Market.

Looks like we have an idea. Now to find someone willing to code it in, I'm guessing all the needed modding can be done with just XML (Not sure on the banned civics, that might be in Python which I..have no idea how to do).

KeloGBites said:

Looks like we have an idea. Now to find someone willing to code it in, I'm guessing all the needed modding can be done with just XML (Not sure on the banned civics, that might be in Python which I..have no idea how to do).

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I wish I was capable of doing all that stuff; I have so many ideas, but no knowledge of how to create it. I feel like a virtuoso with no hands.

I'll try to compose an outline of all this stuff, and we can expand on it.

Capitalism

Tent Civic: Free Market

“Holy Building” ????

Conflicts with Socialism (State Property)

Socialism

Tent Civic: State Property

“Holy Building”: Communist Manifesto

Conflicts with Capitalism (Free Market)

(Jeffersonian) Democracy

Tent Civic: Universal Suffrage, Free Religion

“Holy Building”: The Bill of Rights

Conflicts with Fascism (Police State, Theocracy)

Fascism

Tent Civic: Police State, Theocracy

&#8220;Holy Building&#8221;: The March on <insert name of capitol here> (Rome)

Conflicts with (Jeffersonian) Democracy (Universal Suffrage, Free Religion)


Redundant, I know, but this is what we have so far.

Holy Building for Fascism (although slightly inaccurate but the assosciation is much stronger) can probably be Mein Kampf. No idea on Capitalism, and I still think all 6 ideologies should conflict with each other and not just 1 other.

The problem with that is that Mein Kampf is much more specifically about Nazism than specifically about Fascism. And I suspect the game would be banned/face restrictions in Germany if it was included.

Camikaze said:

The problem with that is that Mein Kampf is much more specifically about Nazism than specifically about Fascism. And I suspect the game would be banned/face restrictions in Germany if it was included.

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For German audiences perhaps substituting the term with "Militarism" or "Totalitarianism" would be a way to work around that.

As for a "holy building" maybe even something like "Fascist Manifesto" would suffice.

In defense of not have every ideology conflicting, you can for example have a Fascism and Socialism in one, for example, National Socialism, Or Fascism and Capitalism, i.e. General Pinchot&#8217;s former government in Chile.