Millitray Training mod discussion

Dancing Hoskuld

Dancing Hoskuld

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Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
23,562
Location
Canberra, Australia
The discussion so far

Hydromancerx*crys* :cry: I had it all written out (ancient to modern era) and then my computer crashed and I lost it all!!

I do not feel like doing it all again .... :mad:

EDIT: Ok I am going to try again ....

----------

* = New Building
Green = Already Required

NONE
- Warrior
- Workboat
- Javaleneer

Lighthouse (Sailing)
- Galley
- War Galley

*Fletcher (Archery)
- Archer
- Horse Archer (+ Stable)

Harbor (Seafaring)
- Trireme
- Siege Quinquereme

Bazaar (Trade)
- Trade Caravan

*Elephant Trainer (Elephant Riding)
- Elephant Rider
- War Elephant

Forge (Metal Casting)
- Spearman
- Axeman
- Light Swordsman

Stable (Chariotry)
- Chariot
- Horseman
- Mounted Infantry
- Horse Archer (+ Fletcher)
- Light Calvary
- Heavy Calvary
- Cuirassier (+ Garrison)
- Calvary (+ Garrison)

Shipyard (Ship Building)
- Caravel
- Fluyt
- Sloop
- Brigantine
- Galleon
- Frigate

Meeting Hall (Monarchy)
- Spy
- Agent

Barracks (Military Training)
- Warlord Chief
- Pikeman
- Swordsman

Armourer (Smithing)
- Warlord Captain
- Maceman
- Heavy Swordsman
- Heavy Pikeman

Siege Weapon Workshop (Siege Warfare)
- Catapult
- Crossbowman
- Trebuchet

Archery Range (Feudalism)
- Longbowman

Knights Stable (Stirrup)
- Knight
- Mailed Knight

Cannon Forge (Gunpowder)
- Bombard Cannon
- Arquebuster
- Cannon

Doctor's Office (Anatomy)
- Medic

Garrison (Leadership)
- Warlord Privateer
- Musketman
- Cuirassier (+ Stables)
- Rifleman
- Calvary (+ Stables)
- Grenader

Naval Academy (Naval Tactics)
- Man 'O' War
- Ship of the Line
- Iron Frigate

*Military Base (Military Tradition)
- Machine Gun
- Modern Grenader
- Infantry
- Guerrilla
- Marine
- Flamethrower
- Warlord General
- Bazooka
- Paratrooper
- Modern Infantry
- UN Peacekeeper
- Special Forces
- Anti-Tank
- Modern Marine
- SAM Infantry
- Mercenary Infantry (not sure about this one)
- Modern Paratrooper

Dry Dock (Steel)
- Modern Workboat
- Iron Clad
- Early Destroyer
- Pre-Dreadnought
- Tropedoboat
- Battlecruser
- Dreadnought
- Transport
- Offshore Platform

Police Station (Marxism)
- Police Squad

*Artillery Factory (Artillery)
- Artillery
- Light Anti-Air Gun
- Light Artillery
- Anti-Air Halftrack
- Mobile Artillery
- Flak 88 Cannon
- Rocket Artillery
- Mobile SAM

Intelligence Agency (Communism)
- Special Agent
- UN Diplomat

*Auto Factory (Motorized Transportation)
- Motorcycle
- Freight
- Jeep
- Armored Car
- BTR80
- UN APC
- Armor M60
- Modern Armor
- Mechanized Infantry
- UN Fighting Vehicle
- Humvee
- UN Motorized Infantry

*Naval Base (Submarine Warfare)
- Submarine
- Destroyer
- Cruiser
- Heavy Cruiser
- Modern Destroyer
- Battleship
- Attack Submarine
- Seaplane Tender
- Early Carrier
- Landing Ship Tank
- Carrier
- Modern Battleship
- Nuclear Submarine
- Missile Cruiser
- AEGIS Cruiser
- Modern Carrier
- Missile Torpedoboat
- Stiletto Boat
- Stealth Destroyer
- Stealth Submarine

*Tank Factory (Armored Vehicles)
- Early Tank
- Light Tank
- Tank
- Heavy Tank
- T95
- Thermobaric Tank

Airport (Flight)
- Airship
- Early Fighter
- V1 Missile

Military Airbase (Aviation)
- Fighter
- IL2
- Bomber
- A-Bomb
- UN Transport Airplane
- Seaplane
- P59
- Jet Fighter
- SR-71 Blackbird
- Gunship
- Transport Helicopter
- UN Transport Helicopter
- Strike Fighter F15
- Strategic Bomber
- A-10 Thunderbolt
- AH64 Gunship
- Modern Fighter F35
- Stealth Fighter
- Stealth Bomber

Scotland Yard
- 007

Missile Lab (Advanced Rocketry)
- ICBM
- Tactical Nuke
- Guided Missile
- Biological Warfare Missile
- Precision Attack Missile

Cloning Factory (Cloning)
- Clones
- Automatons
- Cyborg

Mech Assembly Plant (Powered Exoskeleton)
- Power Armored Infantry

Android Factory (Androids)
- Android

------------

Not sure where to put...

- War Dog
- Guard Dog
- Global Hawk
- Remote Controlled Bomber
- Construct Ship
- Walker Droid
- Lithorial Combat Ship
- High-Tech APC
- NLOS Cannon
- Aurora Scramjet
- Plasma Armor
- Submerged Town Platform
- Stealth Armor
- Fusion Submarine
- Special Infantry
- Fusion Destroyer
- Fusion Transport
- Hovertank
- Hybrid Gunship
- Assault Droid
- Tesla Infantry
- Orbital Fighter
- Orbital Bomber
- Genetic Soldier
- EMP SAM Infantry
- Siege Droid
- AVC SAM
- AVC
- Super Soldier
- Dropship
- Fusion Carrier
- Anti-Personnel Mech
- Scout Mech
- Nanite Spy
- Nanite Swarm
- Dreadnought Armor
- Sentinel
- High-Tech Robot
- Nanite Cloud

-----

Phew! Ok as you can see most every Trans-Human Era Unit I have no idea where to put them. Also I noticed there are many building that could be useful but they just come way after units are invented. Which means if they were used you would ahve to wait until the building was made.

Personally I think we should just make up our own buildings like my original idea where you have one for the Era and then a building for each type of unit. And then each unit would just require 2 buildings and we would not have to figure out what existing buildings would fit.

Era
- Ancient
- Classical
- Medieval
- Renaissance
- Industrial
- Modern
- Trans-Human

Unit Type
- Animal
- Archery
- Assault Mech
- Biological Warfare
- Bomber
- Clone
- Diesel
- Domesday
- Dreadnought
- Early Bomber
- Early Fighter
- Espionage
- Gunpowder
- Helicopter
- High-Tech
- Jet Fighter
- Melee
- Missile
- Mounted
- Nanite
- Nuclear Ships
- Recon
- Robot
- Settler
- Siege
- Stealth
- Steam Ships
- Submarine
- Supersonic
- Tracked
- Wheeled
- Wooden
- Worker
Click to expand...
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
here are my suggestions for buildings for military unit production. Still needs some work integrating with Zappara's resources etc.


NONE - mostly weapons were hand crafter by the user
- Warrior
- Workboat
- Javaleneer
- Galley
- Mercenary Infantry (not sure about this one)
- Chariot
- Horseman
- Horse Archer
- Elephant Rider
- Arquebuster (see Infantry comment also sulpher resource)
- Grenader (hand crafted stuff mostly by the user at least early on plus sulpher resource)
- Infantry (needs covered by resources ie National Wonder Filings Factory)
- Guerrilla (see Infantry comment)
- Anti-Tank
- Airship

Forge (Metal Casting)
- War Galley
- Trireme
- Siege Quinquereme
- War Elephant
- Mounted Infantry
- Light Calvary
- Spearman
- Axeman
- Light Swordsman
- Swordsman
- Pikeman

*Fletcher (Archery)
- Archer
- Longbowman

Bazaar (Trade)
- Trade Caravan

Shipyard (Ship Building)
- Caravel
- Fluyt
- Sloop
- Brigantine
- Galleon
- Frigate
- Modern Workboat

Meeting Hall (Monarchy)
- Spy
- Agent

Barracks (Military Training)
- Warlord Chief
- Warlord Captain

Armourer (Smithing)
- Maceman
- Heavy Swordsman
- Heavy Pikeman
- Heavy Calvary
- Crossbowman
- Knight
- Mailed Knight

Doctor's Office (Anatomy)
- Medic

*Gunsmith (Flintlock
- Musketman
- Rifleman
- Cuirassier
- Calvary

*Carpenter (?????)
- Catapult
- Trebuchet

Cannon Forge (Gunpowder)
- Bombard Cannon
- Cannon

Garrison
- Warlord Privateer
- Warlord General

Naval Academy (Naval Tactics) and ship yard
- Man 'O' War
- Ship of the Line
- Iron Frigate

*Military Base (Military Tradition)
- Machine Gun
- Modern Grenader
- Marine
- Flamethrower
- Bazooka
- Paratrooper
- Modern Infantry
- Special Forces (* not sure this one belongs here)
- Modern Marine
- SAM Infantry
- Modern Paratrooper

Dry Dock (Steel)
- Iron Clad
- Early Destroyer
- Pre-Dreadnought
- Tropedoboat
- Battlecruser
- Dreadnought
- Transport
- Offshore Platform

Police Station (Marxism)
- Police Squad

*Artillery Factory (Artillery)
- Artillery
- Light Anti-Air Gun
- Light Artillery
- Anti-Air Halftrack
- Mobile Artillery
- Flak 88 Cannon
- Rocket Artillery
- Mobile SAM

Intelligence Agency (Communism)
- Special Agent

Factory
- Motorcycle
- Freight
- Jeep
- Armored Car
- BTR80
- UN APC
- Armor M60
- Modern Armor
- Mechanized Infantry
- UN Fighting Vehicle
- Humvee
- Early Tank
- Early Fighter
- V1 Missile

*Naval Base (Submarine Warfare)
- Submarine
- Destroyer
- Cruiser
- Heavy Cruiser
- Modern Destroyer
- Battleship
- Attack Submarine
- Seaplane Tender
- Early Carrier
- Landing Ship Tank
- Carrier
- Modern Battleship
- Nuclear Submarine
- Missile Cruiser
- AEGIS Cruiser
- Modern Carrier
- Missile Torpedoboat
- Stiletto Boat
- Stealth Destroyer
- Stealth Submarine

*Tank Factory (Armored Vehicles)
- Light Tank
- Tank
- Heavy Tank
- T95
- Thermobaric Tank

Military Airbase (Aviation)
- Fighter
- IL2
- Bomber
- A-Bomb
- Seaplane
- P59
- Jet Fighter
- SR-71 Blackbird
- Gunship
- Transport Helicopter
- Strike Fighter F15
- Strategic Bomber
- A-10 Thunderbolt
- AH64 Gunship
- Modern Fighter F35
- Stealth Fighter
- Stealth Bomber

Scotland Yard
- 007

Manufacturing plant
- ICBM
- Tactical Nuke
- Guided Missile
- Biological Warfare Missile
- Precision Attack Missile

Cloning Factory (Cloning)
- Clones
- Automatons
- Cyborg

Mech Assembly Plant (Powered Exoskeleton)
- Power Armored Infantry

Android Factory (Androids)
- Android
Click to expand...


added later

*Kennel or dog breeder/trainer available with hunting - isn't this building part of another mod - I was going to have one in the subdue animals mod which could be built by a captured wolf
- War Dog
- Guard Dog

manufacturing plant
- Remote Controlled Bomber

dry dock
- Construct Ship (and manufacturing plant)
- Submerged Town Platform
 
Hydromancerx
Well i think it was moved to later since "Droids" are not the same a "Androids". They really just need like a "Robot Factory" when robots are invented to put all the random robots in.

*Robot Factory (Robotics)
- Global Hawk
- Remote Controlled Bomber
- Walker Droid
- Assault Droid
- Siege Droid
- Sentinel
- High-Tech Robot
 
My problem with catapults and trabs requiring a building is that traditionally they were built at the siege site and then discarded. They were not built in a city somewhere and then carried across country. Exceptions would be ballistas and some of the multi-siege engine siege engines which would be broken down and transported.
 
Archers and Longbowmen

I think that Archers should require no building and Longbowmen require the Archery Range simply because it takes a great deal of practice and it was always the well known secret weapon of its time. It required a lossening of the feudal heirarchy.
 
What about crossbowman, I think they need to have the siege weapons workshop. However, I don't think they don't need the archery range. Crossbows in combat were never so much about there accuracy as it was sheer firing speed.
 
Afforess said:
What about crossbowman, I think they need to have the siege weapons workshop. However, I don't think they don't need the archery range. Crossbows in combat were never so much about there accuracy as it was sheer firing speed.
Click to expand...

Crossbows weren't about speed. They were the gun of the era. Anyone without much training was likely to hit their target. They deffinitely need Forge or Armoury but not sure about siege weapons workshop.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Crossbows weren't about speed. They were the gun of the era. Anyone without much training was likely to hit their target. They deffinitely need Forge or Armoury but not sure about siege weapons workshop.
Click to expand...

They were about speed. They were 2-3x faster to reload, if you were good, than a longbow, etc. You could kill a lot more enemies with them than a normal bow. And since they were derivived from Ballista's in origin, I think they need to be built from a siege weapons workshop. Forge, maybe, because they did have some metal parts, but I'm not sure about the armory.

Also, I wonder if things like the armory and such should give out special promotions like "Chain-Mail" and the like, giving defense bonuses. It would be more realistic.
 
Afforess said:
They were about speed. They were 2-3x faster to reload, if you were good, than a longbow, etc. You could kill a lot more enemies with them than a normal bow. And since they were derivived from Ballista's in origin, I think they need to be built from a siege weapons workshop. Forge, maybe, because they did have some metal parts, but I'm not sure about the armory.

Also, I wonder if things like the armory and such should give out special promotions like "Chain-Mail" and the like, giving defense bonuses. It would be more realistic.
Click to expand...

I disagree on speed. Crossbows are significantly slower than longbows, although far easier to train. random pages I googled agree with me. :) see Crossbows vs Longbows in the Medieval for example. I still disagree with the siege weapon workshop, it seems a place where the default unit of construction is the log.
Longbowman could shoot 2-5 times more frequently in a given time than a crossbowman.
Click to expand...
 
Afforess said:
They were about speed. They were 2-3x faster to reload, if you were good, than a longbow, etc. You could kill a lot more enemies with them than a normal bow. And since they were derivived from Ballista's in origin, I think they need to be built from a siege weapons workshop. Forge, maybe, because they did have some metal parts, but I'm not sure about the armory.

Also, I wonder if things like the armory and such should give out special promotions like "Chain-Mail" and the like, giving defense bonuses. It would be more realistic.
Click to expand...

Have you actually handled a bow, longbow or crossbow? Crossbows are much slower even with the claw rather than winch style reload. Or maybe you are talking light crossbow and I am talking medieval crossbow :)

I saw the Armoury as a storage place for raw materials and parts as well as finished goods more than a place to make stuff - that was the forge. There again I have not read the RoM Pedia on the building so I don't really know Zaps intention.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Have you actually handled a bow, longbow or crossbow? Crossbows are much slower even with the claw rather than winch style reload. Or maybe you are talking light crossbow and I am talking medieval crossbow :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I have. Okay, so Crossbows are slower, I'm revising my statements. But they don't require the same amount of strength or training to use.
I saw the Armoury as a storage place for raw materials and parts as well as finished goods more than a place to make stuff - that was the forge. There again I have not read the RoM Pedia on the building so I don't really know Zaps intention.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I guess.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
My problem with catapults and trabs requiring a building is that traditionally they were built at the siege site and then discarded. They were not built in a city somewhere and then carried across country. Exceptions would be ballistas and some of the multi-siege engine siege engines which would be broken down and transported.
Click to expand...

This was not my choice. Those in green were already in RoM. Same goes for the clone units, some spy units and cannons.
 
I did this already. I didnt work out as intended, but gave a lot of galleys and warriors in the modern age from small undeveloped cities (usually around the poles) even though they were up to date on the research.

What (IMO) needs to be done is to make every unit have an attached building or make a partisan with no building reqs or resource reqs for each era.

Perhaps start out with an early barrack (War Hut) and a primitive ship builder. Then make them upgrade like barrack 2 garrison.
 
I view how Catapults and Trebechats(sp?) requiring Siege Workshop as a place where the equipments are made for transport, or at least where the people were trained in basic knowledge. Then the people travels with the army and then build up the equipment there. It just happens that unit graphics is limited to one graphic at all time, but we can easily close our eyes and imagine the equipment being set up at battlegrounds.

Really, if we are to be honest, the most realistic aspect of Civ4 are the cities and maybe improvement. Sort of.

The units simply destroy realism. So I just separate cities and units and give them two storyline in my mind. Cities develop with improvement over the ages. Meanwhile, in the alternative but in participation, units are there to protect cities in alternate timeline that are vastly squuzed into "days" as turns.

Hopefully I make sense somewhere here :lol:.

So my point is that it really doesn't matter what building, as long as you choose closest type of building that just maybe be realistic training place of units and just let it be.

So to me the list already given is as good as it is going ot be, except for future units that just need a bit more analysis in order to be sure that the buildings and units mesh together in tech tree. Then we just allow our minds run wild just because we are, as the website here call us, civ fanatics! :D
 
:bump:
:please:
:D
 
Shouldn't Modern Armour come under Tank Factory like the rest of the tanks that can be built?
 
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