Immortal University XXXVII: Mehmed II

Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
1,467
Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 37th in this storied series.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

leader.jpg


People tend to like this guy and the Janissary. Let's see what he can do here.

Here's the start:

start.jpg


As usual, this is the first Fractal map I generated. Do I need to say much? (Seriously, move the warrior before settling).

As requested, I am providing two WB Files: one of them has huts and events on and the other has them both disabled. If you wish to play with mixed settings, just start a custom scenario. Let me know if there's something wrong with the saves.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

Worldbuilder files are our friends and they let us do amazing things, like playing the same game on different levels and speeds or even switching leaders if we're willing to do some extra work. However, such files have a flaw that only becomes apparent when you start to use them on levels beyond and including Monarch: there's no information regarding the barbs in them, which means that high level barbs automatically lose Archery and whatever extra techs they may have had. I have no idea how to fix that. You can play with easy barbs (and not that easy because, except for you, everybody starts with Archery and they will get it in no time) or open the Worldbuilder and manually add Archery to the barbs. It's up to you.

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.
 

Attachments

Hmmm, so we still have to edit in archery for the stupid barbs... it always takes me half an hour to find that stupid tech in the list, (there is no order to it!!!) And the whole game gets spoilered anyway since you automaticaly see who you are all up against with and everything else... Shouldn`t this have been done ahead of time.
 
Hmmm, so we still have to edit in archery for the stupid barbs... it always takes me half an hour to find that stupid tech in the list, (there is no order to it!!!) And the whole game gets spoilered anyway since you automaticaly see who you are all up against with and everything else... Shouldn`t this have been done ahead of time.

It's not possible. The problem is that there's no line in the scenario file for the barbs so it's as if they didn't existed. If you want, I can post my starting save, but it has huts and events on. That way you wouldn't need to give archery to the barbs. But it's not like it's going to make a huge difference, it's just one or two easy pickings for the AIs.

Edit: Uploaded the file.
 

Attachments

Immortal / Normal

820 AD
Spoiler :
I settled 2N 1W because I thought I wouldn't be able to use the fish if I settled in place. Lost two city sites to João that I was saving for later. Completed the Great Library and the Parthenon (whipped them when I saw someone complete the Statue of Zeus) and was going to Liberalism. I was thinking of attacking João and then Montezuma.

Civ4ScreenShot0020.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0021.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0022.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0023.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0024.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0025.jpg


1565 AD
Spoiler :
I won Lib and took Astronomy. I figured I could do with some Observatories and trade routes. I sent two Galleons exploring and saw a bunch of nice islands that changed my plans. I had just finished researching Military Tradition and had stables and barracks in my main cities, but I thought I could beeline Communism instead in order to settle all the islands. I had saved a Great Artist so when I was first to Communism, I started a golden age and switched to State Property. A while later I also switched to Emancipation because Montezuma already had it. Then I got myself another Artist and coupled with the free Spy, I extended my golden age.

Unfortunately, I couldn't keep a monopoly of Astronomy long enough so I'll have to share one of my islands with Catherine and Bismarck. In one of them there's still a barb city, but I have some Janissaries and Cannons heading there as of the save. I'm about to get Assembly Line and let's see what happens when I start building factories and plants. I have to build a ton of workers to make my new cities productive, but being expansive that can't be too difficult. Good thing I have a lot of galleons so I can build the workers anywhere and ship them where needed.

My only concern is with what will happen once I switch out of Hereditary Rule.

I have no idea what VC I'll pursue. I guess that, except for culture, they're all at hand.

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg
 
It's not possible. The problem is that there's no line in the scenario file for the barbs so it's as if they didn't existed. If you want, I can post my starting save, but it has huts and events on. That way you wouldn't need to give archery to the barbs. But it's not like it's going to make a huge difference, it's just one or two easy pickings for the AIs.

Edit: Uploaded the file.

Not if you XML lock events out ;).

I'll stream this now.
 
one of them has huts and events on
:D

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

You mean make another Worldbuilder save after the first time you press Enter, then use that to give Archery to the barbs?

What did you do to the save to make that step necessary?
 
Init to - - > > 1555 AD (Just took down a giant…)
Normal Speed / No lucky huts


This game was actually more interesting than I thought it would be! I don’t like this leader at all, and I still made no use out of his Janissiaries. Nor do his traits help me, since I always try to keep my empires tiny and small.

Anyhow…
Spoiler :

I started by making the oracle as my first wonder. Interestingly enough, I was able to actually get marble hooked up in time to use it for the oracle. I guess that’s a big benefit to being EXP and starting with roads right out the door. Sometimes, this comes just right for the map.

I was rather upset about my start. I wasn’t sure if I should settle on a hill or stay in place incase I pop something. Unfortunately I stayed in place and I find out then I had nothing else to gain… I was kicking myself after that for not moving, especially with EXP, but what can you do… I HATE that!!!

However, my typical wonder building went pretty well. My first settler I built was made specifically for building the Parthenon and nothing else as its first build! This way I could work on TGL in capital and not worry about pollution, etc. Well, it worked like a charm.

I had even edited in archery for the barbs at the start, but they were not a hassle to me because I had set up some good positioned units to keep my areas clear. I had like one barb but no big frieken deal, he attacked a fortified unit in a city on a hill (how can they do that!?)

Interestingly enough, I ended up building Sistine chapel as well, to win culture wars, and I’ve been pissing Joao off by really hurting a couple of his cities. In one near city I ended up building the Mousoleum as well. That was truly odd since I almost always try to avoid this wonder! But I had a shot and figured well why not culture pressure Joao some more! Well… I actually don’t mind it now, since my later golden age from Taj gave me 12 turns! And then I ran another 2 great artists for another 12 turn golden age. It’s just too bad my first artist I used for a GA from Music was too early.

Oh yes, I also built tones of wonders again. I even had the S. Paya for early Philo, but it doesn’t matter since I bulbed it anyway just to ensure I’d get the religion on the same frieken turn. I also got the UoS, and etc… etc…

It’s just a shame I didn’t go for Mids, but when I edited in archery for the barbs I noticed Bismark was onboard right away, and that may have tipped the scales on my decision weighing.

Anyhow, I went full blown SE again, no stupid cottages. I was still plowing through everyone in techs but eventually my rate started to slow down. This caused me to go for constitution, where I was able to pick up speed again. The problem I had was no horses for me so I was puzzled on how to handle the situation. But I got Monte all happy to trade horses and so then continued up to military tradition for my faourive military unit :P

And then…. Terrible news happened.

My victim I was planning to backstab, ended up FRIENDLY VASSALING to Catherine. Now, let me tell you about Catherine. She ended up gobbling up a LOT of land. I even specifically allowed her to do so, because I wanted her to give me infrastructure and improve the lands.

But now, she was almost 4x over me on the score-board AND the master of my other potential victim. This meant I would have to somehow wrestle down a tremendous power-house here… and I definitely don’t want to run my cavalry into her UU or I’m in big trouble.

And then…. Something so ******** happened, it could only be the decision of an AI.

Bismark… who was the lowest leader on the board (even lower than me!!!) decides to DoW on big bad Cathereine (who was a frieken Giant at that time), and his vassal.

You got to be kidding me????

Oh you haven’t even heard of stupidity. I had recently just made a defense-pact with that Master as well. Yup… Bismark was THAT ********!

I can’t figure out how an AI can do something so suicidal, but I saw later on that he was totally boxed in by the Russians, and perhaps had no choice due to his logic but to try for a break-out.

Well, I then decided I would have to turn against my allies soon enough, and I was racing like mad to get out my cuirassiers, and also drafting those stupid Janissaries through a (poor-man’s DRAFT) city. It did not take many turns for me to make peace with Bismark at least.

Well, the first city from Catherine was easy enough. I was actually surprised at how high the success rate on these mounted units were against longbows. This can be summarized up in 2 statements:

1 Cuirassiers ignore first strikes
2 Stupid Catherine founded almost EVERY city on flat-lands


And so..,. I kept cranking out these mounted units thanking God that Monte was never bribed to cancel deals on me… Yup, Catherine was an IDIOT!

Joao had broken off from Catherine during the war and I bribed him to make peace from Bismark. That was a nice break, as it meant I didn’t have to DoW on both of them.

Anyhow, I took out Catherine’s cities peace-meal. Unfortunately as fate would have it, just when I was closing in on an important city, it was obvious Bismark’s second-wave attack would capture it. I then had no choice but to also DoW on Bismark and fight vs. the both of them!

I did so, and ironically had to attack him down to the last unit, then hault because a stupid AP resolution came up to gift that VERY same city back to Catherine, lol. So there were are, all 3 of us wanting that one shrine city, and Bismark had just made peace with Catherine, preventing her from taking it back by force.

I was afraid if I captured that city that turn, then it would be sent to Russian on my turn despite no longer under Bismark’s ownership.

I immediately vote YES gift the city for Catherine please. I was hoping to get my hammer bonus back from past defys, and to get Bismark unhappy if he defies.

Bismark defied of course, so then the next turn I finished him off, and then we made peace. So that left me back fighting Catherine alone.

To spare more details I kept taking her cities peacemeal. And then timed things to take out 3 separate cities in one turn, to get the capit option when I was finally ready and not worrying about delaying it one turn just to get that last city here…. And BOOM idiot vassals to someone else and I’m screwed.

I got some HIDDEN city out of the deal. I took it just to see what it was, turns out she had some cities on another small continent. No wonder she was turning into a giant! I gifted the crappy city back to her where she thanked me, haha.

Also, by accepting that city, it immediately gave me contact with Pacal (I was WONDERING who the last player was at this stage!).

So that is where I left off… I don’t know who to go after next, Joao as my ORIGINAL target, or Bismark. Probably Bismark since he is small and weak (well, I hope he is weak). I consider this game to be a mop-up though at this point, unless somehow something bad happens. I already took down a giant beast, so I literally feel unstoppable, but those are famous last words :P


Yup, turn 87 and I only have 2 frieken cities in my entire empire. But at least I have some pretty serious wonder-power. TGL already built..
f_voaoei8rhm_f8a8152.jpg



Quite an important city, now you see why the 3 of us were fighting each other over it.

f_ejnhwwkm_49764de.jpg



Ok, so who wants an ass-kicking next...
f_h1b1xqy4t0cm_7f8acc6.jpg

 
IMM/Normal off IT's non WB save.

1942 UN victory

Spoiler :


Without any other indications I chose to settle in place. BW ---> worker techs ---> aesthetics.

Like I suspect many people will do on this map, I targeted TGL using the marble. One thing I managed to do that was somewhat unique was peacefully claim the gold near Joao and livestock/corn to the south near Cathy. I then finished blocking and backfilled. This got me 7 very good cities peacefully, as well as iron and copper. No horse though.

I won lib around 1000 AD (slightly later?) and took nationalism. My settling SCREWED cathy as Joao settled toward her too and the reputed best-rexer got locked to 4 cities (!). She voluntarily vassaled to well into double-digit city Bismark (my only true rival on this map for the whole game really).

I hit cathy with cuirassers/cavalry (cavs as I could get there...monty traded me the horse), but had to fight 30% pop Bismark too. He didn't have PP when I declared, but by the time I took a city of his he had rifles. He retook one of cathy's cities, but in my anger I blitzed past his well-defended magic rifle cities and BURNED his capitol and hamburg, then took peace (he paid me like 180 gold). I built wealth to get to AL/steel and promptly started rushbuying hammer buildings and then cranked infantry/cannon. I declared on bismark as part of a :backstab: package: montry declared on Joao, bis declared on monty, I declare on biz (I had monty at friendly for most of this game). Biz puts off AL for some reason and I grind the hell out of his cities with stack-split infantry/cannon (working on arty). Eventually monty caps to Joao, I ask for 1 gold from Joao (it works), and cap bismark after taking most of his good cities.

From there, I turned on Joao. I got monty to break free early. I took peace with monty and punted Joao off the continent and capped him (more infantry/arty. Joao had gunships but did not attempt to flank my arty using them, instead sitting back in cities bent-over :confused:.). After that I quickly declared/capped monty.

Still not enough pop for UN :sad:. Not to be discouraged, one more wealth spree brings us fission/rocketry, and Ragnar doesn't have fission yet. I declare and drop 36 uncontested ICBMs on him, frying practically every unit he has. On turn 1 of the war, he doesn't want to talk. 2 turns later, cap. I didn't need a cap though, I nuked his pop down enough that I had UN anyway :p.

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0004.jpg

Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg


Last in tech, first in win. Pacal was nearing space but you get the feeling like 100's of troops + craptons of nukes could probably curtail such a thing.

Anyway this was yet another game where infantry/arty bailed me out quite profoundly...single-handedly mopping 3 civs with a highly favorable K/D.



This game was played start-to-finish on live stream and is available on-demand there.
 
Hi,

Long time lurker – This is my first post.

Finally got BoTS 3.19 so I think I am going to attempt this one.

I normally play on Prince because I have no end game.

I do not know how to take screen shots and my keyboard is all screwy, so it will just be the save

I could not get the first save to work so I have to use the second save - Ignorant Teacher's starting save

Speed Normal Difficulty Immortal

1AD save

What do you think?
 

Attachments

Immortal/Normal 1120 BC

Tried my hand at livestream, but messed it up. I'll play 20 minute blocks and post here. Trying to speed up my game and not worry about winning or losing.
Spoiler :

But I'm going to still do goofy stuff - settled in place and went mining first. Then decided oracle->CS might be a good idea *AFTER* finding Joao nearby (with stone so hopefully he wonderbuilds)

I popped pottery so started immediately on writing. Worker first farmed the corn then mined the gold. After writing I committed myself to oracle at least and went masonry then oracle techs. Saw only a couple barb warriors though my spawn busting wasn't the greatest.

Since I popped pottery I had a jump on things and decided to build an academy instead of bulbing math which worked out. Now I have to plan on what to do next. BW is in 3 turns, but I took ITs save with events so I'm considering avoiding slavery and switching to Bureau immediately - I won't need slavery for my first 2-3 production cities.

As for cities I'm looking at corn/cows in south and 2 cities sharing the east corn - that should get me all the hammers I need to start fighting.

Civ4ScreenShot0191.jpg

 
Immortal - No Speed Cheats / No Lucky Huts (Continued to end-game)
Spoiler :

I decided to finish off Bismark after all, and allowed him to keep his last crappy city. That way I could do a bit of trading after, and it really was a horsehockey city.

Then I worked on Joao, unfortunately stupid Joao vassals to Pacal and his Viking buddy, so then I got into a bigger war than I expected, but it was alright since Monte was too stupid to know what to do in all of this.

I finally wiped Joao off my continent but he had spread off to some other island somewhere. I then made peace and …. Tadahhh.. We DoW on monte.

I think Monte then vassaled to Pacal as well, but I wiped him off the continent as well, making him R.I.P. Then we made another peace deal with Pacal.

Rest of the story? Well I was still wonder building the whole time going up the media branch. I also built the internet and manhattan project, etc. Then I started rush buying nukes. One turn alone I rushed 33 at once, and I could have rushed more but I didn’t want to spend gold on high production cities because that was a waste.

Needless to say I didn’t touchy any micro-management at all from this point, despite my cities badly needed it, I just didn’t care anymore.

End of story… you can sort of guess. I stole Pacals vassal (Joao) and then finally won domination when one of my captured cities came out of revolt. For some reason, despite all of Ragnar and Pacal was in total rubble, and had barely any units…. No real working tiles, Ragnar STILL wouldn’t break off, and Pacal still refused to vassal. I don’t get it…

f_jxksm_b1ae2dd.jpg

f_w1udj9m_9997fbd.jpg

f_hth4pk19m_75061a2.jpg

f_1742yoyo9fjm_bae4dac.jpg

 
If you want, I can post my starting save ... That way you wouldn't need to give archery to the barbs.
Thanks. That was helpful.

I'm taking this leisurely for now. Turn 43 - 2280 -- stopping for advice and to show something unusual.
Spoiler :
First I got a map from the hut to the SW. It totally ruined my game. I knew I shouldn't have played with huts! :rolleyes: :D

Worker -> Warrior -> Archer -> Archer -> Settler (3 turns to go)
Mining -> Hunting -> Archery -> Mysticism -> Polytheism -> Masonry -> Priesthood

That tech path was for the Oracle, of course. I went through Poly with the plan to research Aesthetics and build the Great Library in Fish/Cow. I'm not worried about strategic resources. With Fish/Cow as a GP farm with the Great Library I can break out with Cats + Janissaries if needed.

The funny thing is that I founded Hinduism on turn 36. On Immortal/Normal. Judaism is also up. I bet I could get the Hydra in my capital if I wanted it, but I can't think of any reason to.

Gold and Marble in the fat cross is in an interesting combination. You can pretty much take what tech you want from the Oracle. Assuming I win the Oracle, what should I take? Aesthetics seems like the most practical, since it's on my tech path. That would give me time to pick up BW, Fishing, Pottery, AH, and still have Literature in plenty of time.

Where should I settle? I think I should settle a production city 5E, 1N of the capital. It's good and in Joao's way. After that, Oasis/Cow (to continue blocking Joao), then Fish/Cow (to get started on infra on the way to the great library), then the southern Corn/Cow (hoping that Catherine hasn't settled there yet.)

IMM-U-37-43.jpg

 

Attachments

Jet
Spoiler :

Grab mono even delay your first city for it. And you should already have started a road east to your first settling spot and eventually to Joao for trade routes. Also I'd settle the corn/cow second and not worry about the middle cow - even if its still open you may want to settle on the silk instead. Should be more hammers. I don't expect you'll have a problem with your tech position and more hammers means more wonder failure cash and more missionaries while you work towards janissaries.
 
To the end
Spoiler :
Well, the game was already won in my last checkpoint, provided I didn't screw up or get declared on before I had time to prepare. None of those happened. I got myself a great production base and got the Internet so all my needs were taken care of. By the end game, Cathy got nuts to go on a domination spree, but we were friendly the whole game and I wasn't threatened. There was once that I had to deviate from my ship building.

01.jpg


Nothing I couldn't deal with.

02.jpg


But that little bugger just had too many troops there and it took me two turns to take it.

03.jpg


04.jpg


Well, at that time I didn't need the extra cash so I razed it. Pacal was really close to launching as well so I figured I might be a little prepared to deal with an eventual launch.

07.jpg


06.jpg


Turns out it wasn't necessary because he didn't even launch.

Then

14.jpg



This was my land in the end. Nevermind the builds, I was accepting all of the governor's suggestions.

08.jpg


09.jpg


10.jpg


11.jpg

 
Jet
Spoiler :
Settle both corn/cow sites for production.


Morna, welcome to the forums.
Spoiler :
I checked your save a while ago so I don't remember the details, but I think you're doing alright. Please show us the rest of the game.
 
These University games have been sort of fun lately. Could you please host another one today? :P
 
Morna
Spoiler :

Get a GS out ASAP for your capital - you'll see every turn you are giving up 15-20 beakers. I'd have settled the iron in the north about this time for your 6th city. Looks like you go straight for education and get Oxford in first before considering who to attack. Oxford in the capital should be pretty good. It would have been better without the move though...

Wait can you draft out of the capital? If its got a lot of food you might want to try going for the globe theater there and attack with drafted muskets. Joao will get taken out by the AI if not you... You will want to be able to grab a couple cities at least before Portugal vassalizes to someone.

Get monarchy - so you can be in HR with Cathy to get her friendly otherwise she does have a chance to attack you despite heathen Joao.
 
Grashopa and Morna
Spoiler :
The move was good. You give up spices and some riverside grass (that can be worked by another city) to get fish and cow. What you lose by having some coastal tiles, you make up for with much better trade routes.
 
Back
Top Bottom