Cataluña to leave Spain :eek:

Yared

That Guy
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
4,516
Location
Hufvudstaden
BBC NEWS
Catalonia votes on independence

By Sarah Rainsford
BBC News, Catalonia

This weekend, 700,000 people in Catalonia are eligible to vote in the region's first ever referendum on independence from Spain.

Organised by activists and volunteers, the vote is not officially binding but it is taking place at a tense time in relations with Madrid.

Supporters hope it is the first step towards a formal ballot for a separate state.

Deep in the nationalist heartland of Catalonia, campaigners have been drumming up support for the vote.

In the medieval town of Vic, hundreds of residents have already cast an early ballot at a tent in a corner of the main square.

Many say the autonomy Catalonia already has is not enough, and they are voting "Yes" to independence.

"More and more people think we have no room in the Spanish house, so we need a house of our own," organiser Alfons Lopez Tema says.

"[The Spanish] don't want us, they don't love us, they don't give us what we want. So the best thing is to vote and decide."

'Subversive'

Almost 170 Catalan towns and villages are holding ballots, staffed by thousands of volunteers.

Vic has traditionally favoured independence but the vote will be a first indication of whether views here are spreading.

The referendum has been the topic of daily debate on local radio.

Speaking Catalan on air was forbidden as subversive during General Franco's dictatorship.

Today, it is an official language, used in schools and government, and Catalonia itself has broad autonomy.

But three years ago, people across Catalonia voted for more. They approved a new statute - the law that sets out the relationship between Catalonia and the Spanish state - which defined this part of eastern Spain as a distinct nation.

It gave more jurisdiction to the local authorities and what many believe is a fairer share of the revenue collected.

For the moderate-minded majority of Catalans, that was enough.

The law was approved in a referendum, passed by the Catalan and Spanish parliaments and signed by the king.
“ People are disillusioned by what's happened ”
Vic Radio presenter Joan Turro

But Spain's main opposition party is contesting the statute in the Constitutional Court and many Catalans fear key provisions of the law will soon be overturned.

"People are disillusioned by what's happened. They're fed up. That's why so many are involved in organising this vote," Vic Radio presenter Joan Turro explains during a break in the schedule.

"People here in the interior of Catalonia have always wanted independence. We want this vote to show that it's not just us now."

Many people in Catalonia say they feel different from the rest of Spain, with their own distinct language, culture and history.

Sunday's referendum will test how far that feeling translates into actual support for a separate state.

Economic help

But frustrations about the relationship with Madrid are as much about money as identity.

Home to some 7m people, Catalonia is a prosperous place.

The pretty cobbled streets of medieval Vic are lined with boutiques and alluring delicatessens - industry and agriculture are both strong here.

But many complain that too much of that local wealth is drained away subsidising poorer parts of Spain and the return investment from Madrid is minimal.

A key provision of the new statute adjusted the balance but the improved system has not been implemented yet.

One pig farmer told me he believed breaking away from Spain would help the local economy.

"If you add everything up, we support the rest of Spain and they don't support us," he said, though like many people he struggled to name anything specific Catalonia has missed out on.

National identity

The Catalan government agrees that the balance of payments to Madrid was deeply unjust.

But Finance Minister Antoni Castells says that the new statute does correct that, adding more than 2 billion euros to the local budget this year.

He points out that only one in five Catalans usually express support for independence.

Still, he says, the fight over the statute has frustrated many and left "a strong feeling of disappointment".

For the minister, the thing to watch at this weekend's unofficial referendum is the turnout.

"If it's high, that suggests an increased number of people think the relationship between Catalonia and Spain should be reconsidered, that too many things are not going in a good way and that a lot of people think Spain is not respecting our self-government and our national identity," Mr Castells explains.

Catalans are certainly passionate about their identity.

Back in a smoky bar in Vic, most of the young crowd watching a Barcelona football match on TV have draped themselves in yellow and red Catalan flags.

Their songs in Catalan are a mixture of swearing at Spain and their own national anthem. There is a map of Catalonia on the wall, with the rest of Spain blanked out.

Most voters in this town will clearly say "Yes" to independence.

What will be interesting is to see how many more moderate Catalans now share their passion.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/8409767.stm

Published: 2009/12/12 16:11:50 GMT

© BBC MMIX

Print Sponsor

What do you think will happen, and if they leave, how will that affect Spain as a whole?
 
I hope the Spaniards invade and show those Catalans their rightful place.
 
In my town the referendum will take place in February. I will, obviously, vote for the independence. BTW, the name is Alfons López TeNa. López Tena and Sala i Martín are the heroes of the right-wing indepencende movement.
 
The world doesn't need more countries, let alone Europe. Keep the autonomy.
 
Wait, is this happening everywhere in Catalonia or just in some towns? If it's the latter, that's some hella selection bias.
 
Wait, is this happening everywhere in Catalonia or just in some towns?

Only some. Anyways, the referendum will take place later in some towns (like mine). I don't know the total number of towns that have taken part/are taking part/will soon take part. Maybe in a couple months (or three), the referendum will have taken place everywhere.
 
Got to love the classic secessionists. They don't exactly know how the central government is oppressing them, but they know it's definitely happening. They don't know exactly what they would gain out of secession, but they know it'll be great. They don't know what leaving Spain would cost them, but they're sure it won't be much. There's no evidence that they would get expedited entry into the EU, but they are sure that it won't be a problem. And of course, the "referendum" is nonbinding and illegitimate, thus nothing more than an opinion poll, but they will still claim some sort of mandate from it if they win, but if they lose, they certainly won't admit that the central government gained any mandate.
 
Basque and Catalonia FTW

I think Winner posted some map some time ago that showed the richest areas of Spain are Catalonia, Basque land, Madrid and various parts of Northern Spain next to the Basque.

But... What would this do to the Real-Barca rivalry?
 
When is Barcelona voting?
 
Catalonia, Catalonia. What does that remind me of...yes Caledonia. If this goes well for the Catalan nationalists, I have a feeling this might catalyse things on the British isles.
 
When does the rest of Spain vote?
 
If they want to join the EU do they not see how completely ******** complaining about subsidising the rest of Spain is? They would still be subsidising the rest of Spain, but as a later accession to the EU would be excluded from the CAP.
 
Catalonia is Spain.

Oh, and like Scotland if they do somehow become independent, I think the British should invade.
 
Spain shouldnt let them become independent.
 
Why are only 700,000 voting?
 
Wasn't it Catalonia that like started Spain to begin with?
 
If they want to join the EU do they not see how completely ******** complaining about subsidising the rest of Spain is? They would still be subsidising the rest of Spain, but as a later accession to the EU would be excluded from the CAP.

Being so rich it's entirely possible the transfers would be even greater... they'd be, roughly speaking, the Netherlands, who pay an average of about $1500 per citizen more than they get back from the EU.

Wasn't it Catalonia that like started Spain to begin with?

No, the reconquista started from Asturias and Leon, in the northwest. Later on, the Crown of Aragón, of which Catalonia was one constituent part, was one of the two major kingdoms that later formed modern Spain.

But yes, you're broadly correct in that the outlook and mindset of Catalonian nationalism is that of a frustrated rival potential imperial core, rather than of an absorbed periphery. There's an old joke that a Basque nationalist politician wants to be the first president of an independent Basque state, whilst a Catalan nationalist politician wants to be president of Spain.
 
Back
Top Bottom