Quick Answers to small questions

peter grimes

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A thread in which to ask little questions that have been bouncing around in the back of your mind...

Here's a couple that have been bugging me:

I opened a can of seltzer water last night. But I didn't finish the entire thing before going to sleep. This morning it's flat - no little bubbles bubbling. But when I pour it into the sink the liquid starts to fizz. Why? Why didn't the dissolved gas come out of solution during the long hours of the night??


When I fill the hot water bottle for my wife, my goal is to give my wife the longest lasting warmth. I use boiling water (against the manufacturer's instructions!). But the pot I use to boil the water doesn't hold as much as the hot water bottle. So I have 2 options: Fill the bottle only 1/2, or add more non-boiling water to top it off. For the sake of this example let's assume that the water bottle holds 2 liters of water, and the non-boiling water is at 25C (about 75F). Which arrangement will take the longest to come to room temperature?
 
A thread in which to ask little questions that have been bouncing around in the back of your mind...

Here's a couple that have been bugging me:

I opened a can of seltzer water last night. But I didn't finish the entire thing before going to sleep. This morning it's flat - no little bubbles bubbling. But when I pour it into the sink the liquid starts to fizz. Why? Why didn't the dissolved gas come out of solution during the long hours of the night??

Probably a difference in pressure once outside the bottle, also it might be reacting with something in the sink or a combination of both. Just because it's not fizzing doesn't mean there is no gas dissolved in it though and the pressure when it hits the sink is going to be much less than in the bottle.

When I fill the hot water bottle for my wife, my goal is to give my wife the longest lasting warmth. I use boiling water (against the manufacturer's instructions!). But the pot I use to boil the water doesn't hold as much as the hot water bottle. So I have 2 options: Fill the bottle only 1/2, or add more non-boiling water to top it off. For the sake of this example let's assume that the water bottle holds 2 liters of water, and the non-boiling water is at 25C (about 75F). Which arrangement will take the longest to come to room temperature?

Heat the half pot up to ~50 degrees then top off with cold until it reaches 25oC or whatever temp you want, trial and error will probably mean you get it down pat after a while.
 
Which arrangement will take the longest to come to room temperature?
If either come to room temperature while nestled closely to your wife, consult a grief couselor.
 
@Garonius:
I like the direction of your explanation for the seltzer... but I suspect that's not quite the whole story. I'm hoping to hear some more voices on this. Regarding the hot water bottle, I may not have explained the scenario very well. The thing I'm curious about is the exchange of heat between the hot water bottle and the air. Will 1 liter of less-than-boiling water dissipate its heat more slowly than .5 liters of boiling water? The surface area of the bottle changes, but so does the mass containing the heat. Thermodynamics is really outside my comfort zone.

@Perfection:
good catch :lol:
 
I suggest you do a series of experiments with your hot water bottle, using your two different filling methods. and plot a graph of time vs temperature

Am I again the lone voice of reason ? supporting emperical science over abstract pondering ? :mischief:

bubbles in your alka-seltzer - when poured in the sink the liquid has a higher amount of contact with a surface (which is where the bubbles form) compared to its volume than before, so the gas that was still trapped in the liquid could escape . ( maybe lungs work like this !! :lol:)

They can make glasses that are so smooth on the inside that fizzy drinks don't produce bubbles in them.

This is a marvelous idea for a thread btw. :)
 
Here's my explanation:

CO2 dissolved in water forms a complex system of CO2, H2CO3, HCO3- and CO32-. If you just let the water sit, an equilibrum will form, where pretty much nothing happens. But this equilibrum is unstable and once you change any energy to the system, for example by pouring it into the sink it will be disturbed and CO2 will dissolve and leave the water until a new equilibrum has been reached.


About the hot water bottle:
Heat transport increases with temperature difference. (Everyone instinctively knows this: If it's cold outside the human body will lose heat much faster than at room temperature). So if the same heat is distributed over doube the mass the temperature difference is smaller and it will give up less heat per time and thus stay warm longer.
 
You should top up your bottle for a number of reasons:
the intructions are important. The rubber cannot take the high temperatures of boiling water and fails much more quickly. You don't want to scald your wife.
The small mass of hot water has a high temperature difference and will cool quickly. The larger body of cooler water will have the same amount of energy but will cool more slowly.
Furthermore, if your rooms are a decent temperature then 25 degrees is warmer than the room and will contribute some heat to the mix.
 
Yay! :goodjob: I thought about starting this kind of thread too, but am way too lazy.

1. This happens especially when sun is low: move your hand towards, say, building, and look at the shadows, suddenly the shadows will "reach" each others, why? I guess it's got something to do with that sieve-thing where light forms wave-type patterns.

2. This might be related to #1: If you put your finger close to your eye, there's small zone around it through which things look different. Try to look text and move around, and you'll notice that the texts somehow twists. Try also to look through small gap between fingers. Form little hole between them and if you're short sighted, you can see more clearly through it. Why is this?

3. I noticed this when I was playing GTA. It is more natural for me to use "inverted mouse": that is to look up by pulling mouse down and vice versa. The term "inverted" suggests this isn't perhaps the standard way at looking things. I thought about this preference, and realized that I have idea of two points (in the head of the character in the game): The other point is in the middle of the head and the other at the back of it. The middle point stays still, and I move the other point. Similarly the "noninverted mouse"-people probably think that the other point is in the forehead. Now the question is: is there any patterns between these two kinds of thinking? Are they for example correlated with the right/left-handedness orr anything like that? Is it purely learned?
 
Atticus
Q1: Yes yes yes! I've wondered about this for bloody ages, my suspicion is that it is a "how the brain processes pictures" thing rather than a physics one. Visible light will not diffract much around an object (say your hand/building) - if it did then all shadows would have 'fuzzy' edges and effects like young's slits would have been discovered centuries before they were.

Wish I could answer this Question (bugs me too) but these are my best guesses.


Q2: I used to know the answer to the clearer sight part of this question. The answer revolves around your eye focus - perhaps induced by your iris altering (not as daft as it sounds).


Q3: No link that I know of. Might depend on how much you project (ie. pointing out a mark on another person's face, if it was under their right eye (with them standing facing you), do you scratch under your right eye or left eye? Bear in mind that their right is your left)
 
Try also to look through small gap between fingers. Form little hole between them and if you're short sighted, you can see more clearly through it. Why is this?

You are effectively making a pinhole camera with your fingers. A small pinhole acts as a lens and in this case helps the lens of the eye.
 
Could Q1&2 be heat-related? Like heat rising off the hot tarmac causing things to shimmer?

EDIT: Having skimmed the wiki for [wiki]Mirage[/wiki] it looks like this is the explanation:


EDIT2: Actually, no, I'm not sure now, because it seems to happen with cold things too...(?) Also I guess the image appears to be coming from the wrong direction?
 
Atticus
Q1: Yes yes yes! I've wondered about this for bloody ages, my suspicion is that it is a "how the brain processes pictures" thing rather than a physics one. Visible light will not diffract much around an object (say your hand/building) - if it did then all shadows would have 'fuzzy' edges and effects like young's slits would have been discovered centuries before they were.

Partly it's physics with a little bit of biological weirdness.

The eye has evolved independently at least 6 times.

Basically what happens is that slowly photo receptors that merely can tell the difference between light and dark slowly evolve until they can see wave lengths that are more discrete thus black and white vision which most animals have, high order mammals however are slightly further along and have usually (but not always herd animals don't really require colour vision) acquired colour vision, this works in a very ingenious way the image that settles on your retina is inverted by your lense.

A simple lense will show how this happens. Imagine that each receptor is like a sort of quarternary bit, so that r,g,b and b/w bright dark are all registered by intensity by tiny discrete physical structure called cones and rods, you'll note that our peripheral vision is not actually anything to do with the lens, and is made up of the movement of our primary vision and a little brain magic trickery, this means that the peripheral vision is rather limited but because it is sub conscious it is very sensitive to motion so hunters for example often stare askew at areas to see if they can catch movement that their primary vision might miss, the primary areas have most sensitivity at either side of directly behind the lens with directly behind being a blind spot where the optical nerve meets the brain.

You'll also notice its possible to lose sight of objects that are right in front of you but then evolution is blind (pun not intended) and frankly the eye is a bit of a hit and miss patch job at best. In humans green is the most intense colour we see, for obvious evolutionary reasons, this also enables 3D because we tend to see red green and blue at different levels and hues and thus at different heights and depths (although this is an optical illusion the brain can use this to create depth) - along with binary vision which also has different depths because the eyes are slightly separated - this creates the illusion of 3D.

The actual way that the brain flips the inverted image and creates a pseudo 3D perceptual qualia as its called is the subject of Philosophy. The best article I've read on this mystery are by Daniel Dennett, and Hillary Putnam who have used multi-realisability (essentially there are many colours that make up red and we all see a version or tone of this) and issues of qualia, or qualities of experience to explain at least a philosophical framework of how we consciously see. See issues of consciousness for more details.

Optical illusions are all ways of fooling the brain due to its parameters being quite limited by evolutionary concerns, For example TV works because it exploits our RBG susceptable eyes. And optical illusions work because our brain makes certain things high priority and others less important, ie movement to periphery and acuity to the more important parts of the eye. So we can be fooled both by motional issues and by shade and tone issues which are created in the brain and have little to do with the eye. That said mirages are optical illusions that are caused before light reaches the eye so it's a fairly complicated area of biology and optics.

Things that are close up look different because of the cross eyed effect up to a certain point the eyes are focusing at slightly different distances creating the illusion in the brain of depth or 3D vision. But past a certain limit they become focused at a point when combined focus are incompatible with the distances, thus things look blurred and out of focus. Also things that are close up are more likely to be missed by our blind spot, thus the common missing what was right in front of you.
 
Could Q1&2 be heat-related? Like heat rising off the hot tarmac causing things to shimmer?

EDIT: Having skimmed the wiki for [wiki]Mirage[/wiki] it looks like this is the explanation:


EDIT2: Actually, no, I'm not sure now, because it seems to happen with cold things too...(?) Also I guess the image appears to be coming from the wrong direction?

One of my favourites is why the moon looks bigger when low on the horizon. It'll make you scratch your head. :D

That is right though hot and cold effect the density of air and thus the focus can be skewed off either way hot or cold. Optimal room temperature is rather rare and so fortunately is -40 and +40 degrees at least in Southern and Northern climes respectively and in the desert/rain season climes of the tropics respectively.

Obviously when the atmosphere is most moist and most hot then you can have bizarre mirages where the angles are reflected 180 degrees so it looks like the trees are in the air. There's a "miracle" in italy where this happens, I forget what its called but an island appears to be in the air.
 
Partly it's physics with a little bit of biological weirdness.
.
.
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Also things that are close up are more likely to be missed by our blind spot, thus the common missing what was right in front of you.

Those are all interesting eye facts, does any one of them explain the effect Atticus asked about (the growth of shadows towards one another)?

**Look at Atticus's post for a better explanation. The effect is perhaps impossible to describe to someone who isn't already aware of it - get strong,sharp shadows and try to poke them with the shadow of your hand to see what happens
 
Those are all interesting eye facts, does any one of them explain the effect Atticus asked about (the growth of shadows towards one another)?

**Look at Atticus's post for a better explanation. The effect is perhaps impossible to describe to someone who isn't already aware of it - get strong,sharp shadows and try to poke them with the shadow of your hand to see what happens

Yes they explain them all.

Oh well I tried.

It's not about shadow it's about the way the brain perceives things and the way light acts I did say this there seemed no point in rehashing what he'd already said. I had read the thread, I thought I'd add something new.

Young's slit basically says light is a wave at least it did originally until Feynman's two slit, it isn't a wave it has wave-particle duality, there seemed no point in mentioning this as the effect is well described by the wavelike nature of light ok.

Nm I give up. Sorry to bother you.

Whatever. :rolleyes:

Ok unsubscribed you win.

Apologies my bad.
 
Yay! :goodjob: I thought about starting this kind of thread too, but am way too lazy.

1. This happens especially when sun is low: move your hand towards, say, building, and look at the shadows, suddenly the shadows will "reach" each others, why? I guess it's got something to do with that sieve-thing where light forms wave-type patterns.

No it's got more to do with that thing where angles are reduced at height and the way the eye perceives this, but yes the nature of light plays a part it always does.

This is merely nothing more than a trick of the eye combined with angular deflection and maybe just maybe a little quantum mechanics. But not much.

I did ask why the moon appears bigger on the Horizon, but apparently everyone missed that. Is that quantum interactions or something else?

Anyway I'm out of this thread. Sorry to have bothered you. :(
 
Mate, what the hell?

I just wanted to know the answer, I hadn't seen "Effect X causes what Atticus asked" in your reply and wondered if I was being dense for not getting it, or if you'd got distracted by explaining interesting things about eyes and forgotten about answering the question (I've done similar often enough).
 
Mate, what the hell?

I just wanted to know the answer, I hadn't seen "Effect X causes what Atticus asked" in your reply and wondered if I was being dense for not getting it, or if you'd got distracted by explaining interesting things about eyes and forgotten about answering the question (I've done similar often enough).

Bit sensitive seem to get trolled heavily in OT sorry.

The effect is a trick of the eye more than a quantum phenomena, which is why I mentioned the moon looking bigger on the horizon than directly above it's to do with perspective when its overhead it looks smaller because you have no comparison except stars, and when over the rooftops you have hundreds of objects to compare it to, thus the perspective makes it look larger than it is. Just as optical illusions sometimes make things look larger than they are. The eye and brain will categorise things to make it easier for you to perceive things, but like anything given an unfamiliar situation it can be fooled rather readily. I explained foreshortening in the pm, this again is a similar phenomena when standing above things in relation to eye level.


AAMOI most autistic people can't see optical illusions, because they always see everything as it is and the brain doesn't filter in perspective issues. This literality also explains why they often seem to be quite object focused and good at rendering photograph like art.
 
A note about light and quantum mechanics: For light propagating in free space you almost never have to consider any quantum effects. Only when interacting with matter quantum mechanics has to be considered. (And even then it is often sufficient to only treat matter as a quantum mechanical system and the light as a classic electromagnetic field.

Basic quantum mechanics like wave functions and the Schrödinger equation doesn't even work with photons, so quantum mechanical descriptions of light are difficult.

So light effects observable by the eye are unlikely to be quantum phenomena.
 
Concerning the effect of distant objects appearing distorted by a physical object in the foreground, I had always thought it had to do with a thermal gradient in the air immediately adjacent to the foreground object.

Regarding the shadows 'leaning in and touching' - I don't think I've ever seen that. I'll have to keep my eye out for it.
 
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