I never got how trading income worked...
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MaximumPain
Warlord
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You do need some connection either road, river or by sea. I know you need astronomy to connect over the open ocean and I think you need sailing to do any trade by sea along the coast. The following techs/buildings give you an extra trade route in every city: currency, corporation, great light house (only in coastal cities), a castle gives you an extra trade rout in the city its built in. Also the free market civic gives you an extra trade in each city. Your commerce buildings like banks and library's do effect your trade if your taxation is set to rout the commerce the that sector. I have found that having harbors and custom houses and over seas trade is a big money maker if you have an over seas partner that you can trade with.
Edit ~ Oh and you need open borders with someone in order to trade.
Edit ~ Oh and you need open borders with someone in order to trade.
Ramesses
Ruler. Visionary. Pimp.
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You don't get gold from trade routes. You get commerce. That commerce gets split up into research, culture, espionage, and gold, depending on how you have the sliders set. That said, if you've been keeping your research at 100% (which is rarely a good idea), then you should be seeing your research per turn increase... if you have BtS.
GrandpaKim
Chieftain
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Kossin, your links were most enlightening, but they do bring up a question.
Under what conditions can you NOT trade resources yet still get the
icon?
Your links are the closest I've found to an explanation to this baffling problem. Sometimes I can trade resources, sometimes I can't. The best explanation I can come up with is the route is blocked by an enemy ship or cultural border. Can a cultural border of a third party with whom you have no "Open Borders" agreement be blocking the route?
This issue comes up pretty much every game, so an explanation would be a relief.
Under what conditions can you NOT trade resources yet still get the
icon?Your links are the closest I've found to an explanation to this baffling problem. Sometimes I can trade resources, sometimes I can't. The best explanation I can come up with is the route is blocked by an enemy ship or cultural border. Can a cultural border of a third party with whom you have no "Open Borders" agreement be blocking the route?
This issue comes up pretty much every game, so an explanation would be a relief.
There are some examples:
-diplomacy issues: you have not good relations enough to trade resources with the leader
-as you pointed out, something is blocking the trade route. Most often this is due to war with a civilization in between trading 2 parties (trade can cross closed borders but not warring borders)
There might be others that I can't remember on top of my head. (I don't think Astro qualifies here)
And remember the icon only means one of either party has revealed a route to the other (ot necessarily you).
-diplomacy issues: you have not good relations enough to trade resources with the leader
-as you pointed out, something is blocking the trade route. Most often this is due to war with a civilization in between trading 2 parties (trade can cross closed borders but not warring borders)
There might be others that I can't remember on top of my head. (I don't think Astro qualifies here)
And remember the
icon only means one of either party has revealed a route to the other (ot necessarily you).I know this is an old thread but I couldn't find any good guides to trade. Anyway, here's my version of events.
Trade: the water religion.
Civs
There is only one Civ in Warlords that gets any extra benefit from trade. And that is the Carthaginians. The Cothon (harbour) gives an extra trade route. And that is awesome.
When to use.
When there is lots of coast and you aren't isolated. You are going to need coast to make anything of trade. One coastal town with decent production (for making wonders and the harbour) required to make it worth while. The more the better.
What to do.
So you have lots of coast. Open borders with your friends (writing) You are going to make a rush for two wonders. The first is the great lighthouse. The second is the temple of Artemis. Try to get both in the same city. A city is going to have 1 trade routes by default. And they will be worth 1 gold if they are local, and 2 or maybe 3 gold if they are with other civs. (roughly - depends on size of foreign city).
So 1 or 2 gold per city if you link with another civ and open borders. Nice.
Now the GL is going to add 2 more trade routes to the coastal towns. The temple of Artemis is going to double the value of those trade routes. A harbour is then going to multiply that by another 50% (+ make people more healthy) and a Cothon would give you another trade route.
In the Artemis city build walls and a castle for another trade route. Its worth it.
So now you have 1 routes by default. 1 more from learning currency (which you prioritise). 2 more from the GL. 1 more from the castle and possibly and extra one from being the Carthaginians. 6 routes in that one city. 5 in other coastal cities.
And they get 2 or 3 gold each * 100% from Artemis * 50% from your harbour/Cothon.
So 6 routes at roughly 8 or 9 gold each in that one city. That's a base gold rate of more than 50 in that one city! Do the religions earn you anything like that early doors? Not even close. And that base 50 something can be combined with libraries etc to boost it further. Its a massive tech boost.
Also note that both the T of A and the GL produce Great Merchants quickly that you can add for even more gold.
What to avoid?
Mercantilism. Avoid it like the plague. It will smash your gold earning as foreign trade routes become banned.
Economics and the Corporation.
Technically both give you an extra trade route. Sounds awesome. But the Corporation is going to obsolete your GL. You lose two routes on coastal cities in exchange for one. Assuming most cities are on the coast (hence the reason you chased trade) then delay this tech. Economics also gives you an extra trade route, it does kill your castles off though. A straight swap in those cities. I wouldn't rush for them as trade will die. See below
What happened to my trade?
At some point all the gold stops rolling in. It took me a while to work out why it suddenly stops. And the answer is BANKING. Not you discovering banking. Your trade buddies. They then switch to Mercantilism and you get left on your own with local only trade routes as they can't trade. The lights go out and your gold stops there and then. This is the death of trade.
You can try to give them education and economics cheaply in the hope they change to the free market, but I have had varying degrees of success with this. Other civs are mostly not interested. One free specialist per town isn't worth the 20 odd gold per town you now lost and 50 in your Artemis town, so its time to move on.
So my advice would be, use the massive gold boost you get early and at construction/currency use that gold to fund an infeasibly large army of catapults and hopefully elephants. Then go find someone - and crush them assuming you don't rely on them for the trade. Otherwise dash for Military tradition and gunpowder. You'll hopefully get these just as the trade begins to die. Whilst other civs are messing about learning economy and the corporation (which are not much use until everyone stops using merchantilism anyway) start a war. No one can come close to the gold you are making or the speed you are teching, religion or not, so press home this early advantage. Its only going to last until your opponents get banking. You have decent window. From about the time you have currency to all your opponents discovering banking. (If you are tech trading I should think it obvious not to give banking to people.)
If anyone else has any opinion on trade, please add. Trade seems to be largely ignored but it can be very useful.
Trade: the water religion.
Civs
There is only one Civ in Warlords that gets any extra benefit from trade. And that is the Carthaginians. The Cothon (harbour) gives an extra trade route. And that is awesome.
When to use.
When there is lots of coast and you aren't isolated. You are going to need coast to make anything of trade. One coastal town with decent production (for making wonders and the harbour) required to make it worth while. The more the better.
What to do.
So you have lots of coast. Open borders with your friends (writing) You are going to make a rush for two wonders. The first is the great lighthouse. The second is the temple of Artemis. Try to get both in the same city. A city is going to have 1 trade routes by default. And they will be worth 1 gold if they are local, and 2 or maybe 3 gold if they are with other civs. (roughly - depends on size of foreign city).
So 1 or 2 gold per city if you link with another civ and open borders. Nice.
Now the GL is going to add 2 more trade routes to the coastal towns. The temple of Artemis is going to double the value of those trade routes. A harbour is then going to multiply that by another 50% (+ make people more healthy) and a Cothon would give you another trade route.
In the Artemis city build walls and a castle for another trade route. Its worth it.
So now you have 1 routes by default. 1 more from learning currency (which you prioritise). 2 more from the GL. 1 more from the castle and possibly and extra one from being the Carthaginians. 6 routes in that one city. 5 in other coastal cities.
And they get 2 or 3 gold each * 100% from Artemis * 50% from your harbour/Cothon.
So 6 routes at roughly 8 or 9 gold each in that one city. That's a base gold rate of more than 50 in that one city! Do the religions earn you anything like that early doors? Not even close. And that base 50 something can be combined with libraries etc to boost it further. Its a massive tech boost.
Also note that both the T of A and the GL produce Great Merchants quickly that you can add for even more gold.
What to avoid?
Mercantilism. Avoid it like the plague. It will smash your gold earning as foreign trade routes become banned.
Economics and the Corporation.
Technically both give you an extra trade route. Sounds awesome. But the Corporation is going to obsolete your GL. You lose two routes on coastal cities in exchange for one. Assuming most cities are on the coast (hence the reason you chased trade) then delay this tech. Economics also gives you an extra trade route, it does kill your castles off though. A straight swap in those cities. I wouldn't rush for them as trade will die. See below
What happened to my trade?
At some point all the gold stops rolling in. It took me a while to work out why it suddenly stops. And the answer is BANKING. Not you discovering banking. Your trade buddies. They then switch to Mercantilism and you get left on your own with local only trade routes as they can't trade. The lights go out and your gold stops there and then. This is the death of trade.
You can try to give them education and economics cheaply in the hope they change to the free market, but I have had varying degrees of success with this. Other civs are mostly not interested. One free specialist per town isn't worth the 20 odd gold per town you now lost and 50 in your Artemis town, so its time to move on.
So my advice would be, use the massive gold boost you get early and at construction/currency use that gold to fund an infeasibly large army of catapults and hopefully elephants. Then go find someone - and crush them assuming you don't rely on them for the trade. Otherwise dash for Military tradition and gunpowder. You'll hopefully get these just as the trade begins to die. Whilst other civs are messing about learning economy and the corporation (which are not much use until everyone stops using merchantilism anyway) start a war. No one can come close to the gold you are making or the speed you are teching, religion or not, so press home this early advantage. Its only going to last until your opponents get banking. You have decent window. From about the time you have currency to all your opponents discovering banking. (If you are tech trading I should think it obvious not to give banking to people.)
If anyone else has any opinion on trade, please add. Trade seems to be largely ignored but it can be very useful.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,114
FYI - You mention "gold" quite a bit in your post above. Actually, what you mean is "commerce". There's a big difference.
For the purposes of this very old thread, your post is probably not worth much. However, you could start up an article in the S&T sub-forum.
For the purposes of this very old thread, your post is probably not worth much. However, you could start up an article in the S&T sub-forum.
Culture Bomb
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Messages
- 298
Presumably if most other civs are running mercantilism, then it's worth it for you to do so as well, since you won't be getting any trade from them anyway you might as well have the free specialists.
duckstab
Child of Noble Family
This is true, I believe.
Also, it's worth noting that vassals are not considered "foreign".
However, in the majority games I've found the loss of foreign trade routes to be absolutely crippling. If you're running a specialist economy, with Representation and Caste System, the extra specialists can be a worthwhile tradeoff. But often it's better just to stay in Decentralization until you can run Free Market or State Property.
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