Training Wheels 1 - Peter Stuyvesant

Welcome to the first in a series that I would like to call Training Wheels. I recently picked up CIV Colonization, and have really enjoyed it so far. However, it's a bit alien to me, even though it uses the same CIV engine I'm familiar with. So, I thought I'd port over a concept from the CIV Strategy & Tips forum over here to help me improve me Colonization skills.

I've read that Peter Stuyvesant is a tremendous leader. He clearly dominates the vote for strongest leader, and I can see the advantages to a +25% hammer rate. I would like to start the first game of the series with him, to see what all the fuss is about. Below is some more specific information about him.



As you can see, the game is set to Normal speed. It's a standard sized map of Conquistador difficulty. All other settings are unchanged, and I have no mods yet to run.

Colonization has an interesting initial turn structure. Far more emphasis is placed on exploration than in CIV. I really feel like it's hit or miss in finding good locations early, and really want to discuss the best methods for picking an initial starting site. However, in the interest of keeping this thread moving, I went ahead and played the first ten turns. Fortunately, I found a decent site fairly quickly, and settled New Amsterdam.



Immediately I met our friend Cunhambebe of the Tupi. I can't make heads or tails of his traits; the civilopedia is fairly vague, I feel. Apparently he's Prosperous and Indulgent. Free promotions aside, this means he [gives/receives?] +100% treasure yields when cities are captured, and [buys/sells?] native land for 50% cheaper.

I used the regular to found the city, and kept the pioneer aboard the merchantman. I then grabbed the guns left over from disarming the regular, and set sail for some native villages. I set New Amsterdam to build political points; my goal is to push Peter Minuit and Pedro Alvares Cabral ASAP. I left the free colonist working the silver mine; two silver is a low yield, but I don't know what the best option is here. Would I be better off building up a lumber supply and then burning it for hammers and points?

I set sail first to the southern village, which turned up positive results. A paltry ~200 gold from the chief, and a demand for guns, which netted me 1008 gold in the following deal and updated the village's demand to rum.



Shortly after, I met the French leader. I had spotted their caravel earlier, but only just now met them. I take it you need to be within one tile to make contact. I immediately opened borders with him. I don't know if this is the appropriate response or not, as I don't know what benefits open borders offers.



The second village (to the north) offered me an ancient treasure. Thanks guys. It's paltry, but still something. I carefully cart it back to New Amsterdam, avoiding the ancient ruins in the area. I also move my pioneer from the village to the silver hill, which I start building a mine on.



As of turn 10, here's the status. France is directly north, almost within visibility distance of New Amsterdam. As you can see, I use map notes to keep track of native demands.

I was unlucky with the immigration pop and only got a indentured servant. I'll eventually train him in a native village. I've also carefully capped my exploration points just shy of what's needed for Cabral. Hopefully I can finagle Minuit to pop first, but we'll see.

I like that starting location. The mountain/river combination is great for silver and you should buy a silver miner as soon as you can afford one.

dalgo said:

I like that starting location. The mountain/river combination is great for silver and you should buy a silver miner as soon as you can afford one.

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It's probably one of the strongest starting locations I've seen since first playing a few days ago.

I definitely see the strength in picking up a very early expert silver miner.

What about the choice to work the silver in the interim? Should I have been building liberty bells? My gut instinct is to say that the best way to beat the REF is to avoid any liberty bells at all until needed to push for independence, ensuring the smallest possible REF. But the ability to expand cultural borders is huge. Ignoring that feature could be why I've found things so difficult.

Or should I have been stockpiling lumber and converting it to political/trade points to push Minuit first, then Cabral? That seems to be a prudent investment to make; Cabral especially on Marathon speed, which I only dabbled it. I like the setting, but felt normal would serve better here.

I know I should look for a seasoned scout ASAP, but there isn't one at the docks. Buying the expert silver miner first might be the better choice, but with France so close I definitely need to get a seasoned scout out quickly.

What are peoples' opinions on buying whatever the natives want in Europe, and reselling it to them, even for no profit? Won't that trigger the first tax increase earlier? What's tax rate progression like? I know it's 201 tons for the first, but what about further increases? I'm assuming the big, multi-hundred gold requests the king made in my offline games were not the taxes; those were the paltry 40-50g requests.

How early should I prioritize a master carpenter and expert lumberjack? What about the expert fisherman I need? The city only produces three food per turn; not enough to support even the two population I have at the start. The two villages I met train expert farmers and expert cotton planters, I believe.

Should I start converting natives immediately? I can very easily use the indentured servant as a missionary, and send it to convert the northern city. I suspect this is an easy source of population for expert gatherers. What about building a church, and buying a firebrand preacher?

I know that's alot of questions to answer, but I really don't know the strategy for moving forward with the game. I'd love to hear what signs and signals I should be looking for, and how I should approach the next set of turns.

There are two schools of thought regarding the size of the REF. Many say you should delay building liberty bells to keep the size small, but that means you miss out on most of the FF. I prefer to compete for them by using a statesman right from the start and worry about the REF when they arrive. In fact if you manage your FF points well you can make your troops so strong that the REF has no chance against them no matter how many there are.

So in this case I would install a statesman and delay mining the silver at least until the mine is completed.

Scouts are hugely important in the early game and you don't have to wait for a seasoned scout to turn up. Buy 50 horses for your indentured servant (you can do that on the dock) and send him out immediately. He may be 'seasoned' by a native village or find one that trains scouts (it will only take a few turns). Ancient ruins and burial mounds are fair game too at this difficulty level.

Because Minuit is so important I would consider buying finished goods in Europe and selling them at no profit to get the necessary trade points, but only for him.

Any colonist can farm or fish, they don't have to be experts but yes it is better to train them if you have a nearby indian village that will do it. Drop your colonist off by ship to save some time. At a pinch you can buy them in Europe but best avoid this cost if you can train them instead.

I usually buy a carpenter/lumberjack pair early in the game to help develop my first colony. In your position I would take the silver miner first however.

In many ways the experts that turn up in the immigration queue shape your early strategy. If you get a missionery then of course you establish a mission, if a preacher is available then you can move the church up the building queue. A master weaver would be a real bonus because of your highly productive cotton fields so you would work on a weaver's shop etc etc.

I agree with dalgo, go for the expert silver miner first. An expert silver miner working a river/mined peak produces 6 silver per turn. This will earn you ~106 gold per turn, accounting for the cost of feeding the silver miner. This is really high for the early game.

If you work the silver mine for 2 silver now you earn ~30 gold per turn, accounting for feeding costs. Its better than your other opportunities. Producing 4 cotton per turn for sale nets you only 4.5 gold per turn. Fishing the crab only gets you 7.5 gold per turn.

Pedro Alvares Cabral is amazing, but I would get the silver miner first. Then focus on political points to get Cabral. I wouldn't worry about producing a few bells early on just to get that one founding father. -edit- whoops, I'm unfamiliar with the regular game's founding fathers since I usually play AoDII. Peter Minuet is way way way more amazing than probably any other founding father. Get him ASAP! -25% cost of recruiting units in europe is insane! -edit-

Also see if you can build a settlement 1S of the marsh square 3 west of your capital. There is another rivered peak there.

Once you get 2 expert silver miners going you'll be earning a lot of money. That way you can rush immigrants off the docks and hopefully get a seasoned scout.

Elliot, how do you calculate a gpt for food harvesting? The only way I can think of is in terms of opportunity cost, but that would give a different gpt depending on the situation. You seem to have something more direct in mind.

Oh, I just remembered you can sell food in Europe. Is that what you're basing the value on?

I'm calculating these values based on my spreadsheet.

On normal speed you need 200 food to "grow" a citizen. Buying the most basic specialist in Europe costs 800(without any founding fathers). Therefore, each food costs 4 gold. Each citizen eats 2 food so each turn a citizen is working inside a city costs 8 gold. A silver miner producing 6 silver per turn with a 0% tax rate and a price of 19 has a revenue of 114. Subtract 8 from 114 and you get 106.

I never figured out a good way to calculate the profit from manufactured goods though. I had issues with how the productivity of the raw material gatherers factored into the profitability. I eventually figured that describing situations(1 expert sugar planter supporting a free colonist rum maker) was going to be easier than a more universal formula. However, I never finished it.

So if I'm reading this right, I should grab an expert silver miner, and look to grab a second soon after to settle the second silver source.

I like that site because the city will produce four food, allowing me to run someone to pick cotton without worrying about the food.

What are your thoughts on arming the natives if all they want is guns? Also, I know I'll need a wagon. Any thoughts on how to get one quickly?

What are your thoughts on arming the natives if all they want is guns?

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I'm unsure. I've played this game for about 100 turns and the natives have never attacked me yet, although I may be lucky. I did get a couple of the founding fathers that increased relations with the natives and I never stole land though. The early cash is probably worth it. And the natives buy guns for a lot of money. Go for it. You need all the cash you can early on to start the snowball effect.

Also, I know I'll need a wagon. Any thoughts on how to get one quickly?

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I rush bought a wagon for around 400. I thought it was worth it.

I have played Coloniation I but am not very familiar with Colonizatoin II. But by suggestions would be

- Silverminer. This will earn you a lot of money.
- Seasoned scout - need for exploration and also the benefits of contacting Indian villages.
- Build a church. This will increase immigration from Europe.
- Wipe out the French as soon as possible.

Nice thread. I don't worry much about the size of the REF at the end and usually ignore warships there too. (This seems to avoid the buggy problems with the REF.) This allows me to focus on lots of cannons to suicide against REF dragoons while using my RS strengthened dragoons to mop up. Maybe I also have a few CG soldiers stacked in port too.

I've played out the next eighteen turns. I was shooting for twenty, or forty if I was on a roll, but real life called and I was forced to save.

As had been discussed, I made the silver miner my top priority. There's no sense waiting for Minuit before picking up this first one. I would even grab the second, but I'm so close to pushing Cabral first that I don't think it's worth it just yet.



So I bit the bullet and bought a miner for 1200 gold. This left me with just 47 gold; not enough to purchase the horses needed in the northern native village. A shame, because horses are relatively cheap. It's a good thing I have that junk ancient treasure sitting around.



270 gold later and I can just barely afford the 300 gold stack of horses, leaving me a grand total of 17 gold. Of course, I later discover that building a road costs 20 gold.

Anyway, religious discontent popped a master tobacconist on the docks. I set sail with all three units and the stack of horses.



The horses led to this lucrative deal with the natives of Para, who then changed their demands to trade goods. I'd say the 300 gold I spent on the horses, plus the 270 gold I sacrificed in selling the ancient treasure to the king was well worth it.



Soon after, the Dutch king arrives to increase my tax rate by 3%. So far, I haven't had to pay him. Part of me wants to believe that he won't come calling for huge donations if I don't have the cash on hand. Another part of me suspects that he has methods of forcefully taking any money I "owe" him.



Meanwhile, I had returned to Europe for the newest immigrant, a elder statesman. Additionally, I stocked up on trade goods to sell in Para. Three stacks cost me 600 gold total, but it was well worth it as it netted me this trade.



The natives now demand guns, but I'm satisfied because the trade managed to cap the round, securing me Peter Minuit.



I should have included photos of the founding fathers screen and the tile assignments in New Amsterdam. I'm 130 political points from nabbing Cabral, and I don't know the best method of picking them up. Aside from the mine, I'm working the lumber, running a carpenter, and otherwise I'm working two four food tiles.

I think I'm doing alright so far. I have ~1600 gold, and a stack of 96 silver to sell in Europe. Where do I go from here? Should I buy the more expensive experts, or just see what the docks will feed me? I definitely want another silver miner, horses and another junk unit or units for scouts. What's the best method of pushing Cabral? Do I run liberty bells with the elder statesman?

Building a church (that is not very expensive) will help you a lot to get more immigrants from Europe. Plut you would need a seasoned scout. Finding new Indial villages will help you with money, trade and points for Founding Fathers

That was good luck picking up the elder statesman. Put him into the town hall and you will soon get the political points you need. I would also recommend you get a scout exploring as your next priority. There is plenty of gold to be picked up but only if you get there first - he doesn't need to be an expert. If you have a lumberjack he is probably producing more wood than the carpenter needs, have him help out the carpenter or work as a blacksmith for a few days each week to make use of your excess ore.

Thanks for the tips so far.

I wanted to get the next round played sooner, but I've been a bit loopy between the pain from and the painkillers I've been taking for an infected tooth.

Hopefully I can tackle it in the next couple of days.

Now that I have Minuit, it's time to tackle some outstanding issues. For starters, I need to expand. I'm looking at that second silver city as the first expansion site, which means I'll need another expert silver miner.

I also need to get some scouts out, which probably means horses and petty criminals or indentured servants.

I recall someone mentioning hitting the French ASAP. Any tips on how to go about that? Do I buy military from the king? Or buy guns and arm some colonists? Could I somehow manipulate the natives into joining my cause?

Hopefully I can knock out the next round this afternoon. I want to re-read through the thread, and analyze the save briefly before I do so. We'll see how that works out; there's a very good chance I may turn around in the next few seconds to start watching football for the rest of the day.

dalgo said:

Put him into the town hall and you will soon get the political points you need.

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I think you're right. I've been reading Axxon's guide on the REF and see a window in which I can build bells without growing the REF.

If I'm reading dilandau's guide right, then I can produce 61.4 bells on this difficulty level before seeing growth in the REF. That's ten turns with the elder statesman, which should get me 300 political points, according to polobo's guide. I should have been picking these bells up sooner.

Don't spend too much time worrying about the REF at this stage, there is a lot of game to play before you meet them and you will probably find the local Indians more of a challenge anyway.

In my last game I concentrated on amassing Founding Fathers and I had 23 FF when I declared independence. By then the REF had built up to an impressive 451 units - but they were only impressive on paper. In the field they sucked against my hardened troops and I defeated them for a total loss of just 2 dragoons and 2 soldiers.

I took a look through everything and realized there is another decision worth making. Is it worth buying a galleon now? I'm considering waiting until I see what some scouts will turn up, I'm hesitant to go wild buying colonists, and I don't want to hold onto large sums of gold for very long before I'm tapped for a large donation.

GlobalHoaxing said:

I took a look through everything and realized there is another decision worth making. Is it worth buying a galleon now? I'm considering waiting until I see what some scouts will turn up, I'm hesitant to go wild buying colonists, and I don't want to hold onto large sums of gold for very long before I'm tapped for a large donation.

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You can afford to wait until you have treasure to transport before you buy a galleon. I'd suggest you talk to the king and see if he will sell you a cheap cannon for New Amsterdam. Yes he will use your money to buy troops for his REF but defence now is more important.

What about specialists? Do you have seasoned scout, carpenter, lumberjack, blacksmith, and above all hardy pioneer? These are needed, and you can start train them if you have a school, so that there will be specialists in all your cities.