Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter LXII : Tokugawa ( take 2 )

r_rolo1

r_rolo1

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Welcome to the 62nd edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 62nd game in BTS the chosen leader was again Tokugawa of the Japanese:
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0176.jpg


civ4screenshot0177.jpg

Recently I've seen some threads about who is the worst leader in BtS ( I find those kind of threads somewhat ... well, how do I say it? ... more revealing of how the posters in there play and in what conditions than anything about the strenghts or weaknesses of the thing discussed . But I digress ... ) and one of the names that rolled there insistently. Well, toku has a completely military set of traits ( Agg/Pro ) and that explains a little of that adversion, but I guess that most of it is simply because the Toku AI is basically a dumb guy that does not go along with anyone and that techs poorly ( I'm pretty sure that people would see Toku in other light if the AI tech traded like mansa AI, but retaining all else ).

Well, Tokugawa of Japan is clearly a military combo: Agg/Pro and a superb UU, a devastating combo for late medieval wars ( if you get gunpowder soon, even better ) and the best rifle draftees you can get without going unrestricted ( except maybe Churchill of England ones ). The more dificult part isto get those units in tech parity , given that neither of the traits give a help in the economical part of the equation. The UB is also a very handy addition, especially if you don't have acess to coal . So, IMHO, as long as you can keep up techwise ( that is the hard part, but just because you are playing with this LH, you aren't forced to play like the AI does ;) ) Toku of Japan has the potential to trump almost everyone military wise from the days of maceman until tanks come out.

His UU
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0178h.jpg

This is IMHO one of the best UU of the game ;) The Samurai is a beefed maceman that has a wide range of bonuses in top of the regular mace, especially the 2-3 off the box first strikes ( 2 from the UU itself and 1 FS chance of drill I ). This makes it the more powerful maceman in the field of the game ( especially with combat I of toku traits in top ) and a very dificult to stop unit ( the only time I seen it in dificulties while in tech parity was attacking against Charlie UU )... in isolation it loses some of it's shine though: most of the times maces are outdated in the first wars and it is not worth to stockpile Samurai just because of the drill I promo, that toku gunpowder units get from free anyway :(

His UB
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0179o.jpg

The shale plant is a beefed Coal plant that does not need coal to give power ( :mischief: ) and that gives a 10% boost to production. Well, the bonus in production gets diluted fast even if you don't have more than a factory and a shale plant in the city, but in isolation I guess the biggest bonus is not needing coal to get power. Coal is never assured OFC, but in isolation the problem is more accute and the AI is seriously stingy on trading it for a minimally fair price. So getting power without coal, besides being good for the health, also gives a nice assurance that you can power your factories.

The start (Thanks to DanF for the solution of the unit change of place ;) .... The warrior/scout should appear always in the same place from now on, really :p ):
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0175.jpg

Coastal start with no seafood and with two plains sheep as food resources :cry:. Well, it has hills and some riverside grassland, so it is not as bad as the other toku start in the LHC , I guess ;) Hopefully there is something better in the fog, but IMHO there is no reason to move the settler elsewhere unless someone find something very shiny.

Regarding the saves ( if you're using DanF change to the WB files load, skip this ): given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.

Any problem PM me...


P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 ( and earlier ) and 3.17 ( and later ) if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p And as WB saves are no more than text files and Vanilla and Warlords WB are almost equal, you can play this if you exchange the non-Vanilla ( or non-warlords ) stuff ( in here it will be only leaders and civs eventually )

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
 

Attachments

This game tries its damned hardest to screw me over routinely.

Spoiler :


Was backwards but setting up to do well. Met peter. Peter = instant war mode @ cautious. Cow tows his vassal charlie at me too.

Even more fun still, shaka and willem start on their own islands, not isolated.

The ENTIRE DAMN WORLD wend hindu except willem, who promptly went early FR. No hindu spread to me, not that it would have mattered since I was an instant war, bribe, dogpile target.

 
After having a break, I'm back in the swing of things.

I like toku, the Isolation, and look forward to giving it another bash.

I'm play a no cottages variant, Hmmm maybe wall street, and try for a space race win.

Emperor level, marathon, and no off shore warfare.

its keeps it interesting for me.
 
I'll replay.
Spoiler :
When I was met by Peter, he already had Fission. In 1200AD!!! That was the password to start over.
 
I'm playing emperor, normal.

Spoiler :

I didn't research IW yet, but it's not going to be a priority, so here is the situation now with Bronze and Horses.
Research: Mining, Agr, AH (BW popped up a hut!!!)
Build: Worker, Wa, Wa, Wa

LHC-Toku-10000.jpg


Research from now on: I'd follow (after Pot, Library) the Monarchy path (no other happy resources apart from gold) and then the Optics one.
I'm not very happy with the city placement proposal, but resources are where they are...
 

Attachments

Prince/Epic 1984 Space Race win
Spoiler :

Well, I was lazy and didn't take any screenshots, but here's the synopsis.

After exploring the continent, I determined that while I could get a few decent cottage sites, the lack of much in the way of happiness or healthyness resources was going to keep my city size small, at least until I can get to Astronomy and trade/conquer some resources. I did build the Great Lighthouse, but didn't get any other early wonders. Upon meeting Peter, Willam, and Charlemagne shortly after optics, I did some backfill and found I was fairly close to tech parity, though Peter was a ways ahead.

I won the Lib race, and took Astronomy, and promptly began building galleons for an invasion force while teching to steel and rifling. Shortly after completing rifling, I DoW'd Charlemagne, as he had been warring on and off with Peter and Kublai, who were the big powerhouses on the main contient. Peter jumped in as well, which ended up being very bad, as Charlemagne capitulated to him 2-3 turns later, after Peter rushed some cavalry in to take one of Charlemagne's cities that I didn't have enough rifles to kill all of the defenders. Kublai had already vassalized Isabella, so I didn't think I could take on either him or Peter at this point. I turned my armies around and promptly attacked Willem, as he wasn't liked by anybody, being the only Hindu on the map.

After a semi-long war, I finished off Willem, leaving me on top of land area, and I thought I might be able to win Diplomacy, as I had Peter at friendly and Kublai at pleased, with the other 3 remaining AI's fairly low in size. I beelined Mass Media, figuring if I could get my population above Kublai's, and have someone besides Peter or Kublai build UN, I should be able to rope in enough votes for a win. I ended up gifting Radio and MM to Charlemagne, as it looked like he had the best chance to build the UN before Kublai got to it(he already had radio). Unfortunately, Kublai beat him to it, pretty much killing my chances for UN.

After gifting the UN techs and picking up Sid Sushi to pump up my population, I started teching towards space race. Pretty much everything went smoothly for me on the space race, with Peter eventually vassaling Shaka, and periodic wars breaking out between Peter and Kublia on the mainland, keeping all the AI's focused on warring there. Several of the AI's built Apollo, though none had built more than a few pieces of the spaceship before I launched. Since I was friendly with both Peter and Kublai, and all the other AI's had been vassalized, I didn't have to worry about defense, and just coasted in to victory.

Overall, it was somewhat painful early-game with the shortage of resources, locking most of my cities at 6-7 even after aqueduct/colosseum. I did get several decent production cities, at least later on once I got the workshop techs and replaceable parts for lumbermills (I left a lot of the forests for the bonus health, since I wouldn't have been able to work the tiles anyway with my happy/health caps). Having super-promoted gunpowder units was helpful, but I definately thing Toku is rather weak in isolation(which is probably why he's typically pretty laughable, with his isolationist attitude).
 
Tokugowa's Lonely hearts Club,​


Pacific edition​


Our intrepid entrepreneur looked out over the lands,

"This shall be the place we'll set up our resort, people from all over the world shall visit this place, wonder at is beauty, wisdom of our people and revel in our sun and Fun"

Capital city is established.

Spoiler :


Our Head waiter, goes off into the interior, and comes across a bunch of Malingering layabouts, flaunting their knowledge of Pottery. The head waiter, directs these staff, to finish their break, and resume duties, washing up the dirty dishes in the kitchen.

(I discover pottery from the hut) :woohoo:

1st tech to research is mining, with more servile staff to be hired to work the gold mine revealed.

3850 BC The head waiter, finding or staff from the Salad bar buffet, sunning them selves on the Northern coast, directs them to resume duties, while defeating the wild dogs feasting upon the scraps discarded by holiday makers upon that beach.

(Translated, I discover Agriculture from a hut, and defeat a barbarian wolf)

3805 BC The head waiter, while surveying the lands of the north from a hill top, was eaten by a wild panther, used for the guests as sport while staying at the hunting lodge. :mad: (11.1%)

3625 BC Buddhism was FIADL, Spiritual civ out there.

Produce my first staff member, while gold sounds attractive, need to boost the coffers, food for the staff and guests is more important, while building a Larder to store the food within. (Granary, and build farm 1st)

3505 BC Hinduism was FIADL, 2nd Spiritual civ (who favours Hinduism?)

2995 BC Animal Husbandry is in, and we have sourced some horses for the Guests to ride whilst staying at Cub Med Tokugowa. A 2nd resort building will need to be established to service the guests with there animals. Lamb is being prepared by our chefs for the culinary delights of out guests, with many recipes being formulated, taking 12 turns to compile together.

2785 BC Archery is in, and some security staff is hired to deal with the uncouth natives, they must realize we are developing these lands for all our economic benefit.

2500 BC Writing implements have now been purchased for use by the guests, and masonry is next sourced to beautify or surrounds, combined with a sailing activities and a lighthouse to safeguard our guests. ( Masonry and Sailing for Great Lighthouse, and Pyramids)

2330 BC Judaism is FIADL, Religion hogging piggies.

1st restless native is sighted to the NW of our guarding security staff. Lighthouse queued in Capital city, as another security staff with a night truncheon is hired, complete with formal training (barracks and warrior in capital)

Tech path altered to Bronze working then masonry, chop out Great lighthouse and allow growth and building of lighthouse.

2240 BC Security is called out to deal with a commotion, injured in pursuing duties and put on sick leave for 8 turns (0.8 whilst fortified on a forested hill :gripe:)

2150 BC 2nd Security incident dealt with, don't these natives know, we are developing economic prosperity. Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but arrows are going to kill you. :spank:

2010 BC Great lighthouse commenced, Staff levels are 6, security is 2 guards with bow's and one with a night truncheon, stone sighted for masonry activities, 2nd resort to be set up to exploit, continue the exploration of the Resort lands.

1990 BC Natives are getting more restless, and are now incorporating sharpened stick in there arsenal. (Barb spear man sighted!!!!)

1950 BC All resort lands and beaches have been explored, Long elongated land strip, with


(Bronze working spoiler)
Spoiler :

Bronzeworking.jpg


Bronze sighted in 2 places, bodes well for Colossus


2nd settler now queued, then great lighthouse, allow to grow to 1 unhappy for whipping into settler.

Tech's so far; Pottery (hut), Agriculture (hut), Mining, hunting, animal husbandry, writing. No 2nd city so far.

2 archers, 1 warrior, 1 worker.

2 sheep pastured, 1 gold mine, 1 grassland mine, 2 farms. Stonehenge was only just built.

Plan for immediate future:

1) Build Great Lighthouse.
2) Build Pyramids
3) Sperm cities all over the coast.
4) Build the Colossus.
5) Tech optics and get out and meet and great the customers.



Continued in Round 2:spank:
 
After monitoring a few of the past LHC threads, I decided to try my hand at a leader I'd never played and expected to do rather poorly with. Before I start whining, thanks to Rolo for hosting a rather interesting game technique; I've only been playing for a month or two and had grown tired of sticking with the same map types and leaders. These threads pushed me to at least branch out and try something unique.

My comfort zone has been financial and industrial leaders thus far, and I've lately been relying on an early rush using Huayna to ensure favorable starts. The LHC concept is thus a rather drastic shift, so I didn't go into it with high hopes. That said, I wanted to try to gain some experience with leaders that are about opposite what I would normally use, and Toku on his own island is about as drastic a change as I could try!

Note: If the images don't show up, I must've done something wrong with the linking; I haven't tried posting them before so I had to throw it together and trust it would work. I'll fix any errors after verifying that they exist :)

Checkpoint 1:
Spoiler :

Founded in place and was pleased to find gold just inside the BFC. Didn't realize at the time that it would end up being one of the few pleasant surprises; this start was not nearly as bad as the last Tokugawa's LHC, but my limited experience hasn't prepared me for proper management of what I have here (at least as far as I can tell; I may be overstating my incompetence :)

1-TokuStart.JPG


Decided to tech agriculture>husbandry>mining>bronze in hopes of finding metal nearby and snagging a couple early wonders.

2800BC - Just finished exploring the island and decided to pop one of the huts I'd bypassed. Scored myself a map! ... Awesome.

2-Explored.JPG


At this point, I started trying to figure out where cities belong. Finishing BW would tell me where I should go next to get myself some metal (which thankfully turned out to be nearby), and I decided the northern tip would be about the best GPP farm I could get here (note that there are clams up there too, that are just outside of the shot above).

2160BC - Founded Osaka to snag bronze. Very poor on the food front; probably can't go whip-happy here.

3-Misfortune1.JPG


Had some poor luck with random events; this one early on and later a setback while researching CoL.

1520BC - Decide to try for great lighthouse and colossus combo (make for useful coast tiles)
975BC - Finished GLH, realize I forgot I need a forge for colossus; hold off to make some axemen (barb protection)
500BC - Found Tokyo to snag iron; looks to be a rather nice production spot to boot.

4-Production.JPG


150BC - Colossus done in Kyoto; time for more expansion.
100BC - Confucianism just founded in distant land; I have 3 cities... feeling outpaced.

5-Sprawling.JPG


25BC - Oracle just finished somewhere; perhaps I'm not so far behind?
75AD - First Great Merchant born; bulb Currency. Considered settling for food/commerce, but felt tech was more immediately useful.
425AD - Founded Satsuma up top; planned GPP farm
1090AD - Second GM; bulbed paper
1240AD - Lots of generals being born elsewhere; I suppose I should be grateful they're keeping each other distracted. I don't have enough production for a war and no standing army at all thus far.
1260AD - Saving out for feedback. Up to 6 cities now, all of them rather puny and severely underprotected. Just starting to send out caravels in hopes of finding some neighbors to milk for happiness-producers.

7-LateExp.JPG

All things considered, the island doesn't look too bad; I just can't shake the feeling that I'm still moving too slowly. And I suspect my city placement leaves something to be desired.

8-Capital.JPG

The capital is doing well enough; good production and excellent commerce. I'm debating how long I can stall on astronomy to continue milking GLH and Colossus. Those two are contributing a great deal to the fact that my tech slider hasn't had to go below 70% so far, so I'm rather hesitant to lose that advantage too soon.

It seems around this time that I always get impatient and think that I'm lagging horribly behind in growth and tech; if nothing else, I feel like I should've found a neighbor or something by now. That said, I suspect my tech situation is pretty good; power-wise, I've no doubt I'm horribly understaffed, but hopefully I can remedy that with some military production now.

Feedback in all aspects would certainly be welcome!


Edit: I notice that my screenshots are not the finest quality; any suggestions for upping that? I play at 1280x1024; is this just the best I can expect, or is there some setting I should toggle so things are a bit clearer?
 
Whatever date I left off at -> Resigned:
Spoiler :

After sifting through the expansive feedback received from my previous update, I completely forgot where I left off, which seems to happen when I ignore a game for several days. I came across the other civs and discovered that I was, as expected, trailing (although not terribly severely). I shopped Civil Service and Code of Laws (for about 10 techs that I had left by the wayside) with the mongols and zulus; unfortunately, that got Izzy and Charlemagne all pissed.

While I continued my sad attempts to build up a respectable force, Charlemagne DOWed and sailed off to my sad island in hopes of conquest. Due to my slow growth, I lacked the production to really do much; after several rounds of defense, Izzy took advantage of my weakened state and took over my youngest city.

At this point, I knew that while I could continue protesting, I would eventually fall behind in tech so severely that I just didn't have the heart to keep fighting. I may have picked an overly-ambitious leader to start with in this series; I'll go give Pericles a shot and see if I have better luck until the next new round. Perhaps there will be more signs of life around that one :p.
 
I will play this tonight. With any luck, I will be selling my transistor radios to the world in no time.
 
Thank you for the map.

@1280AD
Spoiler :
... and the gold.

I took a Monarch save and played that level, wanting an easy time.

When I saw the gold, I let go and went all whacky. AG>AH>Mining>Pottery>MYST>Med>Priest>Writing>Alpha>COL (won religion). GS pops Phi (won religion. Then to monarchy, revolt to pacifism and king. CS, Nationalism, GS pops edu, researched Lib.

A very easy map to fog bust.

I only have 4 cities and only 1 worker :eek::lol:

Still, I easuly won Liberalism, but all that was available is representation. Researching Gunpowder now. May not finish, the one worker is really slowing me down.
 
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