Paradiso Immortale - Zara Yaqob

Paradiso Immortale is a cookbook styled series based on some of the popular cookbook series to grace this board. The name, which translates to Immortal Paradise, has no meaning to the series, beyond describing the difficulty level it is intended to tackle.

The rules of the series are fairly straightforward. Do not post information past the current date even in spoilers, as discussion will not be conducted in spoilers. Play will progress in rounds, with each round generating discussion and relaxed voting.

The voting* is relaxed because it does not determine a single save for everyone to progress with. In fact, you're actively encouraged to continue with your own save. If you absolutely feel the need to breeze through the entire game, remember the first rule; do not post any information past the current round even if it is in spoilers.

Discussion will not be confined by spoiler tags. Most cookbooks are filled with pages of tagged discussion for the benefit of those who have not played the round. However, if you have not played the round, there is little or nothing for you to read given that everything is bloody spoiler tagged. All the tags create is a barrier for actual discussion, and so they will not be used for discussion. Spoiler tags must be used for reports, but are discouraged for use in discussion.

This map will be fractal, standard size, and is set to normal speed. Huts and

As the title suggests, the leader for this map will be Zara Yaqob.

And the starting screen shot.

The first round will be to turn 75 - 1000 B.C.

*One of these days, there might actually be a vote. Possibly a vote to determine if voting should be conducted.

That bad?

That's the type of start that makes me cringe. It has potential but sucks unless you reveal a good food source in the fog.
I'd rather have a poor start with a confirmed 5+ food source.

It's a terrible start, but the reason I'm not playing it is because I'd have to wait to post completed spoilers, so I'll wait to play.

I did play 75 turns

Turn-75

I did my 75 turns, though I was suspicious at the start and moved around so I got a little lucky. While I don’t believe in giving out spoilers, in this case I must say something:

This is a bugged start. If you trust your initial start, you are going to end up with 0 food for your capital. The presence of that nasty cow was pretty much the biggest tip off there. However, since Global Hoaxing has a habbit of tampering with tiles as well, who knows. But as mentioned, this start is TERRIBLE compared to what you’re most likely going to find the AI’s start off with.

Also, either it’s a very interesting coincidence, or the thread-starter has tampered yet again with pre-selecting your neighbours, etc. So again, BE WARNED! If you expect this to be a normal immortal game for LEARNING anything, you’re really not going to learn much for a real game here. Sad to say…

Global hoaxing, why do you do this? Also, if you are going to be serious about hosting immortal games and map creation, then you at LEAST need to go back and learn the basics on what counts as even a legal created map. Also, any time you mess with something, no matter how slight, you SHOULD tell people about it, so they don’t have nasty surprises.

Cam, did you forget to post your results, or are you giving up at this point?

Giving up - a game for other players, but don't let me dissuade anyone who wants to play. I don't play on Deity, so a loaded Immortal map is probably a bit much for the likes of me at the moment.

'Someone popped a Gold'!

Actually fog-looking virtually guarantees that there is nothing but the cow and flood plains there.

Thanks to the cow glitch the game will even evaluate 1 plains cow and 1 (ONE) flood plain as "enough food" for a capitol.

I really wish discovering resources were clickably disabled like a lot of other options. Artificial difficulty (or help) isn't fun for me.

obsolete said:

However, since Global Hoaxing has a habbit of tampering with tiles as well, who knows.

Click to expand...

I did not edit the start at all. The only tile I've edited in all the maps was a single tile in the Pacal map, making an easy start even easier.

It's interesting to me to see the dichotomy between players stating this start is too tough, and those same players (or players of comparable skill) complaining that a whole map is too easy when given a slightly better start.

I appreciate the natural response to the cow glitch, but doubt it's substantially more difficult than other maps I've seen played out. And I'll freely admit I've erred towards more difficult maps in the wake of that Pacal map.

I also appreciate the displeasure from a string of similar AI leaders. However, two issues are at play here. One, of the pool of leaders drawn from for that four-pack of maps, many of the more successful AIs are included. Eliminating them leaves some less-than-stellar leaders, should I handpick the leaders again. More importantly, that pool of leaders was so large that you're very likely to see at least one of them in every game you play.

I've rolled two alternatives to this map. The first is cow glitched, and three of the AIs are from the four-pack. The second is not cow glitched, but five of the AIs are from the four-pack. These are all random fractal maps; the only handpicked leader is the player's. I mention them only to highlight that random chance is random.

I started playing this map ~1000 AD or so and have it more or less won. I didn't find it any more difficult than other maps, but I'm not a big fan of the map settings themselves (low sea levels). At least there's an extra AI in the game to help offset the extra land.

shyuhe said:

I didn't find it any more difficult than other maps, but I'm not a big fan of the map settings themselves (low sea levels). At least there's an extra AI in the game to help offset the extra land.

Click to expand...

I wanted to see what effect these settings would have. It's possible that low sea level and two extra AI would work better. It's more likely that normal sea levels and no extra AI is the way to go.

I appreciate the natural response to the cow glitch, but doubt it's substantially more difficult than other maps I've seen played out.

Click to expand...

A city with no hills/plains bonus, nor any food in its BFC, and he says he doubts it's SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult than others.

Hmm!

Well for the reccord, I'd like to take a peek at some of these other maps. Quite possibly they are bugged as well. For a bugged map, sure this isn't the worst. That is... you get to turn a whopping 2.6 F tile into a 3.6 F tile after improving it for 8 turns. Whoopie!


Anyhow, I had THOUGHT I met all the AI's on the map, but now from reading the last few comments, as I understand it, you sneaked in yet another leader onto this map, and didn't mention any of this in the details?

@obs

Check F8 for the leader count. I have a habit of checking F8 when I start a forum game to see what the settings are.


The capital does suck. It's almost entirely brown The leader is good though, so it kind of balances out.

obsolete said:

Well for the record, I'd like to take a peek at some of these other maps.

Click to expand...

Sure, I'll attach them here. The "retake" map is cow glitched, and the "II" map is pig glitched.

obsolete said:

Anyhow, I had THOUGHT I met all the AI's on the map, but now from reading the last few comments, as I understand it, you sneaked in yet another leader onto this map, and didn't mention any of this in the details?

Click to expand...

I didn't want to ruin the surprise. The file size should have given it away, though how many would recognize that?

I should have posted this map instead.

Of course, once my RNG gets past these bugged starts, it'll go bugged in the opposite direction, with trip freshwater corn or riverside plains hill gold.

GH, I see nothing wrong with your maps. I haven't posted my games and such because I haven't been playing a lot lately (let alone playing online), but I generally like them. I just don't like mapsizes larger than standard or low sea level because of the lack of power my PC has.

Finished my game, diplomination.

1 AD



1828 Culture

Cow Glitches are without a doubt the worst.

You either get only 1 food, or 2 pre-improvement. And after all that research and improving you gain only a single extra food, for 2 or 3 total.

With the pig, you start with 3 food, and after improving you get another 3 for 6 total.

This is like comparing apples to oranges. Pigs count as food, cows I consider as a non-food resource since they give no more food than a pre-biology farm on the exact same tile. In fact, in a cow-glitched map, it's better to use a biology farm on that tile instead of the cow improvement!

That shows you how broken these starts are.