So you think you can OCC, Sitting Bull?

Sidney Magal

Latin Lover
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Inspired by dalamb's discussion on drawing an OCC map for the Noble's Club, I decided to start a series focusing OCC games because dalamb said he didn't want to do it himself.

I started a random Fractal map and drew Sitting Bull as our first leader:
Civ4ScreenShot0027.jpg


Philosophical is a great trait to have in an OCC game. Protective is, well, Protective.

This is the start:
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Should you despair?

As I said, this is a random Fractal map. I only changed a small detail of it because it would be somewhat of an insta-lose the way it was. Ask me later what I changed.

To play, extract the files to your Saves/Worldbuilder folder and select the appropriate difficulty. This map has huts and events on. If you don't want them on or if you want to play it as a non-OCC game, start it as a Custom Scenario. If you want to play it up to Prince, select the Noble save. If you want it on Monarch or Emperor, select the Monarch save and if you want to play it on Immortal, select the Immortal save. I haven't made a Deity save. If you want me to, just ask.

One more thing: it's not possible to give Archery to the barbs via WBSaves. If you are playing on Monarch or higher and want them to have Archery, do it manually via World Builder.

Good luck to you all and let me know if there are any problems with the saves.
 

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Events are easy to disable post-map creation. Huts require find and replace text editing of the WB save.

More importantly, high-level OCC is just about impossible unless you're willing to go for the abusive version of diplo wins or permanent alliances :p.
 
Not really familiar with OCC beyond the basics. Should it be played at the same level or down a bit for a fair try of it?
 
Events are easy to disable post-map creation. Huts require find and replace text editing of the WB save.
You're right. If people enjoy playing this, I'll add a no huts map. It only takes two seconds to do. I was playing and noticed that I failed to erase the previous visibility in the WB and that's bad.

More importantly, high-level OCC is just about impossible unless you're willing to go for the abusive version of diplo wins or permanent alliances :p.

Wasn't there someone that won a Deity Always War OCC? (S)he cooked the map a little, but (s)he won.

BTW, I don't think it's that impossible, but playing one level down is good. I found out the hard way. I still haven't finished, but I don't see much future for my game.
Spoiler :
As you can see here, I have the production and the research (with the Internet) to outbuild the AIs, but Brennus is going to win culture and there's nothing I can do about it because I can't keep up with the required espionage to stop him. Espionage is one of the things that doesn't work so well in an OCC.

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If I had started on Emperor, I think I'd be able to win...
 
I took the Monarch save and played it at Emperor level. I too lost due to culture. I've played my OCC's primarily on pangea maps -- I was amazed just how slowly it went on fractal -- I assume entirely because of the penalty for not knowing all the other civs. :(
 
Played for a bit, nice and quick fun but no clue how I'm going to win it.

Monarch 1100ish AD

Spoiler :
Haven't played a OCC challenge since I was a chieftain player :p so I figured I'd go down a level.

Found myself with nothing to build but workers and dog soldiers early due to poor planning I guess, build pyramids right quick went for TGL and CS for obvious reasons.

129 bpt at 1ad, been keeping an eye out since I read the 200bpt thread.

Made friends with my continent so not worried about military but I did find some map maker funny business when trading for maps! :lol:

Funnybusiness0000.jpg


With no water access (ouch!) I have no clue how the other continent is doing tech wise and though I feel I'm flying I'm not confident enough to wait further then physics.

lib0000.jpg


End of turns capital and empire in one!

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So how to win?

No oil, Rag will have spare eventually but is teching so slow even after all the techs I've given both of them. Probably no war but a really late one.

No coast means no boats I guess so... umm. Can't culture I imagine with 1 city so... space?
 
Emp/Normal

1991 Space (yes, seriously)

Spoiler :


This was my first try, and the map was ass to me. ROOSEVELT declared on me early. I held him off. Got Brennus up to friendly using OR + Hindu (brennus founded). I myself founded judaism and confucianism (roosevelt went jewish). I got gwall, henge, oracle. Then things went downhill.

I missed ToA by 1 turn. I missed pyramids because they went ~1200 BC god dammit. Someone beat me to music though I did get great library and parthenon.

So trudging through CS, paper, edu wasn't easy. Eventually I got constitution and later national park + bio farms going so that I didn't utterly suck. Got back in it with very careful trades only along the computers path after bio. Built research when not other things.

Ultimately I got to computers first and nabbed internet, space elevator, and so on. This let me use the other AIs to tech for me while my sagging 1k BPT did what it could.

Other than roosevelt, I was declared on like 7 friggen times in this game. Roose, 1x peter, 1x shaka (peter vassal), 2x bismark, 3x ass hat gilgamesh. DAMN IT.

But, Brennus was a DP shield and it took them a while to get near my capitol, and UN/AP frequently stopped the wars. The AI also inter-warred a lot...contributing to the slow tech pace. When my ship landed, gilgamesh was in his 3rd war with me, which he failed utterly since I could 1/turn lvl 3 mechinf. UN ban of nukes passed fortunately.

Peter was very close to culture, had about 40k when I launched (completed 5 casings, 3 thrusters, 1 of the rest) and had ~ 45k when I won.

So apparently this is possible w/o mids or half the other damn early wonders :/.

 
Monarch/Space/1971

Spoiler :
Wow really close game, not having ocean access made culture a nightmare threat. I actually didn't even meet the last 2 civs until 1900 or so.

Booked it to computers, ran a sort of SE/production based cap thanks to NP and many unchopped forests. Didn't even build globe until I was forced out of rep by the UN which also cost me a TON of bpt, lesson learned next time Defy!

Never once had oil though I could have traded for it if needed, even built a nuke plant for the first time... since my last one blew up a year ago.

Giggles declared and landed 20ish cavalry that got chewed up by infantry. Lots of fake wars vs Shaka to make some friends.

So I had about 20ish turns to go for space parts to build/launch and check the victory screen to find this.

prebomb0000.jpg


Ugh, someone sell me a transport. I had 2 ICBM's squirreled away before they got banned so I basically bribed everyone I could into a war with Peter (starting by bribing Peter into my good friend Brennus :lol:)

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Whew that's better, dunno what I would have done without the nukes.

1 turn before the win.

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4 cities went legendary from other cultures that weren't capitals in the last 4-5 turns as well, very close game.

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Yeah... those suck compared to a normal game. Best part was my score, 8044!

Fun games to play as they go by so quick.


My change hunches

Spoiler :
1. Obviously the civs were moved to our continent, were we in iso with this giant continent before or did you give Shaka the boot?
2. Aluminum or uranium added
 
Immortal

Spoiler :
1957 Space Victory. Spoiler includes details on hidden resources and rivals. It's also very wordy!

Spoiler :
I could not have hoped for more luck in many regards. Brennus founded Hinduism and didn't take long to send me a Hindu Missionary (a la Isabella style). Rather kindly, he also sent me a Jewish Missionary not long afterward (two Monasteries). I was expecting the Jewish Missionary to go to one of Roosevelt's cities and have America take up Judaism and split the island, but not to be, and after not long Roosevelt too took up Hinduism. I later founded Taoism, and it spread naturally in America like wildfire, so I ended up producing some Hindu Missionaries of my own to send to Roosevelt to keep him in the Hindu family. I saw Brennus as the major threat of the two, and could not have done more to please him. Roosevelt wavered between Cautious and Pleased throughout much of the early game, but the only one to ‘wheoohrn’ was Brennus, and he was Friendly with me at the time.

So, back in the capital I didn't take too long before going after and getting The Pyramids. The Great Wall was part-built too, but it was taken before completion, giving me a desirable cash payout. I decided to leverage Sitting Bull's Protective trait, Dog Soldier, and Totem Pole promotions, as I was quite wary of being attacked. Popped a Great Engineer and held him back for The Great Library.

A somewhat regulation game targeting key technologies; Masonry, Literature, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Civil Service, Liberalism, Biology. I traded to get Monarchy along the way and diverted research to get Feudalism for the Protective Longbows. I took Printing Press with Liberalism, not knowing the tech' rate of the opposition, but there were clues (World Wonders being built, and one report on 'The Most Advanced Civilizations') that whoever was 'out there' was doing a bit better than Roosevelt and Brennus, but not concerningly so. I would have loved to slingshot Scientific Method or better yet Biology, but it wasn't worth the risk of missing the freebie all together.

After Biology (National Park and a team of Workers 'Preserving' every forest in my borders starting obviously with the BFC), I did alter my typical research path. Normally I go after Astronomy and Superconductors for the Observatory and Laboratory / Research Institute respectively, but instead headed for Railroad to load up on Machine Guns. I upgraded all of my original Archers (except for one Medic) to Machine Guns thanks to the great promotions, and supplemented these with quite a few comparatively ordinary 3XP new ones.

I also went after Radio a lot sooner than I usually do in order to get Cristo Redentor. I had a feeling that I was going to be asked to jump into lots of undesirable civics, and couldn't stand the thought of blowing a lot of turns in Anarchy and a lot of turns in unwanted civics just to fend off the probability of invasion.

Although the economy usually takes care of itself in an OCC, running Pacifism with a particularly large defensive force really began to take its toll. At one point I ended up running Merchants and popping a Great Merchant to put these economic concerns behind me.

Brennus had built the Apostolic Palace, and never seemed to have any resolutions other than to keep re-electing himself as the leader, which I kept reaping positive diplomatic modifiers from. He was Friendly, and ultimately was prepared to sign Defensive Pacts with me whenever he was not waging war himself.

It took a really long time to contact the other tribes, and generally I was at least on tech' parity with most, with Bismark somewhat trailing. One plus was that Peter wasn't in Mercantilism, and all of a sudden my trade routes came good again, as I was getting only a dribble of commerce out of Roosevelt who was one of the first to switch out of his own favourite civic.

I opted not to chase Superconductors immediately, and instead went after Computers, assuming that if I got The Internet, I'd probably get it as a freebie. I swapped into Organised Religion for building both Cristo Redentor and The Three Gorges Dam (still unsure on the value of latter for 'denial' purposes). Indeed I did get The Internet in the end, and with it came a surprisingly mediocre bunch of tech's ... not even Rocketry, let alone Satellites. I self researched most of the spaceship technologies myself, and kept switching civics between research-friendly and production-friendly. I went after The Space Elevator, and was competing more against the clock than concerned that any rival was going to beat me to it. Brennus and Gilgamesh each looked as though they were going after a Diplomation win, and Peter had a respectable sized empire that could challenge for Space, Diplomation, or maybe even Culture. Gilgamesh had built The Manhattan Project, and I painfully had to stall my spaceship building to construct our SDI, just in case. I fired off two conjoined Golden Ages to get Fusion and Composites as quickly as practicable, although my Cockpit had to be built three times thanks to enemy espionage.

Strangely, I was also getting hemmed-in in terms of both Brennus' and Roosevelt's culture from around the mid-1800's. They were both running Free Speech and their cities appeared to have about five religions each. While I didn't lose any BFC tiles in this culture push, I lost some of those outer-lying resources over time and was very worried about losing the Aluminium and/or the Iron.

Anyway, 'Blast off, it's party time!', only to find that I was going to lose by two turns to Peter's culture that had raced ahead. Moscow and St. Petersburg had gone way past legendary, and Novgorod had a reported 12 turns to hit legendary to my space landing's 14. Well, I did what I had to do. I got three away, and was planning to use a couple more, but was really risking retaliation from the Sumerian-Zulu clan for nuking their friend. He fired two at me, and both got intercepted. My nukes must have done enough, as it was my 7 turns against Novgorod’s 14. It was on about 46,500 culture but clearly I'd taken out enough buildings, population and cottages to nullify its threat. Peter was prepared to talk peace rather than face more of the same. 'Fine by me', the game's 'all but in the bag'. However as each progressive turn passed, Novgorod’s culture seemed to gain more and more momentum. It went down to the wire, however by one turn;

woo_hoo_immortal_sb_occ.jpg


I've got to say, a very unusual OCC. Not an absolutely perfect spread of resources, but just about as good as I can remember. Aside from Barbarians at one end, and Nuclear Warfare at the other, I was never in conflict. My continual signing of defensive pacts with Brennus may have been the difference, as he was becoming a monster and had both Roosevelt and Bismark as vassals. I also got every World Wonder that I seriously wanted. National Wonders: National Epic, Oxford University, National Park, Ironworks, Globe Theatre (defying lots of resolutions). Also, an unusually late finish (1957AD).

Thanks for posting it Sidney Magal!
 
Well, I seem to be the exception, I had a loss, Brennus was an ABSOLUTE MONSTER.

I didn't really take it too seriously, but that's no excuse, Brennus, stole repeatly from me to gain tech's and just blew me away in research stakes.

Of course, I blew away the other 4, but Brennus was a run away monster, I should have acted much sooner to stop him and involve him in wars, my bad.

Tech screen at end.

Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Hmm Brennus stole Refigeration, Super conductors, and couple of other from memory.

Just one of those games,

Normal speed, Monarch etc.
 
Yeah he stole 3-4 from me as well but thankfully only sabotaged 1 engine. Espionage seems really harsh in OCC as you really have no chance to keep up.
 
Raze using what units? It's not like he can build a navy.

I dunno, I didn't actually open the game, I just looked at his screenshot. If nothing else, hitting the third cultural city with a couple ICBMS would slow it down a lot. It would be hard to stay alive after that, and keep building spaceship parts, though.
 
I dunno, I didn't actually open the game, I just looked at his screenshot. If nothing else, hitting the third cultural city with a couple ICBMS would slow it down a lot. It would be hard to stay alive after that, and keep building spaceship parts, though.

According to mirth the trick seems to be to steal sistine chapel and a religion or two to slow culture attempts down drastically.
 
Monarch - normal speed. Space victory in 1969AD. Seemed pretty easy to me...but I've been doing a lot of prince one city non-OCC space games and OCC just makes things much easier. Normal tech pattern...Oracle-CS sling...Lib-Medicine sling...spam forest preserves...Computers-Internet...Fusion...filler techs where needed.

Spoiler :
The start position was overly generous on resources...especially outside the BFC, and the neighbors were easy to keep friendly once I spread confu to them. Brennus in particular OrgRel favorite civic + religion = friendly in no time. Roosevelt was a little tougher to get from pleased to friendly but the RNG was kind and didn't have him attack at pleased (10% chance) until he became friendly.


As TMIT said, to slow culture you need to grab Sistine and a couple of religions. I don't think that was necessary on Monarch launching when I did (~1954) but on emporer it would have been. I wonderspammed a lot to keep the AI from getting GPP too.

Enjoyed the game. Thanks for posting it. Maybe do a pangea next time or some map where you start on the coast...so people who like conquest can give that a shot (not me).

cas
 
First game in a long while and just about enough time to finish an OCC.

Spoiler :

Managed an immortal space vic in 1948. Had a couple of wars along the way 2 with Gil and one with Shaka. Other than that no real problems. Could possibly have lost to a diplo victory but lucky the voting went the right way for me. :)

 

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