Immortal University XLI: Sitting Bull

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
27,995
Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. It is now hosted by professors Ignorant Teacher and myself, TMIT. Are you ready for the U?

This is the 41st beatdown on the AI, in case you're keeping track.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

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Also known as the anti-rush cow, this guy is massed defensive overkill with a little power GPP thrown in just in case you don't need to kill 34096830487 attacking units early. Make do.

Here's the start:

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No shuddering with the udder this time, the cow glitch is averted. Not that a bunch of non-fish seafood is exciting, but at least it's more than say +3 food surplus after improving all of your specials X_X. Random fractal map w/ random opposition as usual. I didn't even hack your colors this time!

Huts and Events are off. If you don't like it, just plop 4 warriors somewhere in world builder and give yourself 60 gold to simulate huts, and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

The save!

View attachment IU XLI Sitting Bull.zip

The initial autosave for those who want to duck having to add barbs or possibly use proper colors. It's IMM/Norm no huts/events.

View attachment AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
I try these for fun, even though I usually end up getting way behind by the ADs. Any thoughts on starting out? I guess archery should actually be a priority here.
 
I try these for fun, even though I usually end up getting way behind by the ADs. Any thoughts on starting out? I guess archery should actually be a priority here.

Archery is useless in early game, Bull's got a resourceless UU.
 
I dont like this start... This annoying tile on the other island bothers me, especially because its a hill and their improvment is crucial early. I would like to move one west but it seems that make me lose 2 of the 3 hills so its impossible. 1S just lose hill at the profit of water and brown land. Well its a good GP farm, but not a good cap IMO.
GLH could be achieved, without that third hill though... Hmmm obviously start with boat but no clue for the rest... Go bronze to whip settlers/workers and eventually then the GLH path if the land points toward many coastal cities. But thats typically the starts that let me clueless usually :P
 
I got to hand it to Firaxis' stupidity again. First they insist that no BFC is allowed without a minimum of 3 hills, since they are so vital to everyone. Then they impose some stupid requirement that some poor sucker must tech up to galleys, and then build the damn galley, just in order to improve one of the hills in his BFC. ********...
Archery is useless in early game, Bull's got a resourceless UU.

Your comment is useless, Bull's got a UB.
 
I'm in, but I don't know why.

I dislike Sitting Bull. The start doesn't look good. I'm a Monarch player.

But I'm snowed in and I like a challenge. Plus I'm already in a bad mood.

I also have this vague hope I may learn something.
 
I try these for fun, even though I usually end up getting way behind by the ADs.

Your braver than me, I'll be sticking to Emporer for this game :mischief: Although, I'm considering this my last Emporer game, if all goes well I might try Immortal for the next IU.

I actually really like sitting bull, philosophical is always welcome and the Dog soldier might not be great for rushes it certainly great as an early barb defender being able to get them so early.

I don't mind these kind of starts either seeing as we start with fishing.
 
Imm/Norm (the autosave)

1 AD

Spoiler :


We're boxed in with limited land. I see people going 2 routes in this game: chariot rush asoka or GLH.

I picked GLH

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Another useful tidbit is that asoka has 2 marbles and is thus willing to trade one, greatly easing the cost of great library. At the end of the segment I do have 6 cities.

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GLH is justified by # of AI and most of our cities coastal (and offshore island).

I also gifted a city to sury over on the other side that has no value at all for 90% of the game, to get him to +6 by the end of the segment (pleased). Ragnar and Sury both hate asoka and like me so I'm going the right way here.



~ liberalism

Spoiler :


Similar to liberalism?! Well, this one didn't go like I wanted it to go. Asoka beat me to music, beat me to sistine chapel (despite sury AT WAR with him :mad:), and I could tell he was going to beat me to lib.

So I leveraged the other two being a bit further behind, picking up metal casting and construction + gold (from music), then machinery + feudalism (civil service, code of laws). I then self teched engineering and switched to vassalage. Seriously.

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Right after DoW I bribed sury into the war to distract Asoka. Once again Asoka shows his priorities while at war:

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Only unlike when it was just Sury, he'd pay for his crappy nonsense this time.

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Bit of a long war but I stopped producing units in most of my cities after sacking his capitol. The momentum carried them through as I began to whip infra and turn research around.

This was a bit of a new conundrum for me: Only recently did I switch over to more farms rather than cottages (one of the criticisms of my game by high level players was that I was cottaging too much non-riverside). Now I have a bunch of settled specs in capitol, and a bunch of captured cottage ---> towns. OK.

Rep/FS/slavery/fm/OR it is for now then. Towns or close villages were kept. Others were bulldozed in favor of farms.



1929 Space

Spoiler :


I had a # of ways I could go but this was least-effort. With a tech rate well past what the warmonger + zealot on my continent could or sully/hannibal (vassal hug) could manage, I zipped out in front while they duked it out a little bit. The only real casualty was cyrus who got knocked around and eventually capped to ragnar.

I ended in civics: rep/fs/eman/env/or. I got a weak sushi + mining put together, though it was hardly necessary on the slow tech of this map:

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Nobody was even close. Nobody had computers, fiber optics, or superconductors until after I launched. Nobody had all the space techs by the time I landed.

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Sully also didn't have SDI, so if he ever got any ideas his stack, or even 5 stacks if need be, would have been toast.

Fighting a treb war feels like my monarch days. When the target is soft enough, it works nicely though :goodjob:.

 
I got to hand it to Firaxis' stupidity again. First they insist that no BFC is allowed without a minimum of 3 hills, since they are so vital to everyone. Then they impose some stupid requirement that some poor sucker must tech up to galleys, and then build the damn galley, just in order to improve one of the hills in his BFC. ********...


Your comment is useless, Bull's got a UB.

Yeah, it really bites when your BFC is separated by sea.

Nice game TMIT. I wonder what your halloffame looks like. :crazyeye: I won't be participating in this since I'm not yet done with Ragnar.
 
Start to Finish (STD Save)

Boy, it sure is nice to have an official standard save to start from…

--
Spoiler :

Things didn’t go well at all during the start. God damn Indians beelined right for my capital and I had no real place to go settle. I then decided to do some worker-steals, but no workers ever presented themselves. So I just decided to DoW anyway and run around doing a pillage economy. Eventually I got one dog up to Woody II, and then Woody III. This enabled him to start stealing workers every damn turn, I had to keep deleting them all I had too much.

Unfortunately I still couldn’t get 5 cities, even after liberalism I didn’t have more than 5 cities lol. But I was doing ok because I had built Mids on that little stone island.

Because of all the warring, etc. liberalism was late. Really late. Did I say late? I mean… late-late.

However, I still won that race, and I DoWed with a stack of Cuirassiers. I took a few cities, including the capital. I was starting to think this was way too easy, and then an ugly SoD of India shows up. Well, I decided to make peace with India, and the stupid idiot fell for it! LOL. I was stretched so thin from taking those cities that I would have had problems trying to defend them all.

After this I was able to then focus on my globe city for later. Anyhow, while I was replacing all my cuirassiers with cav during peace-time, Ragnar decides to DoW on India again. I then decide to do the same, and after taking some more cities, I got India to vassal.

I was a little too scared to DoW on Surry right after so I waited to build up forces. Unfortunately this screwed me because Surry then got free techs from other AI’s and then made defence pacts. Arghhhh.

But eventually Ragnar the idiot DoWs on Surry again, which gave me a bit of a free lunch. I then DoW on both of them basically and after vassaling Surry, I dow on Cyrus, and then DoW on Ragnar again. I vassal my whole continent.

Next thing that happens is I win through diplomatic UN vote. GG

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I got to hand it to Firaxis' stupidity again. First they insist that no BFC is allowed without a minimum of 3 hills, since they are so vital to everyone. Then they impose some stupid requirement that some poor sucker must tech up to galleys, and then build the damn galley, just in order to improve one of the hills in his BFC. ********...


Your comment is useless, Bull's got a UB.

Thanks...that was my point when I asked. I just wonder if it's worth it
 
I had a hard time with this (as usual on immortal)!

Spoiler :
Settled 6 cities, but they were all across the tundra at the top and I kind of ran out of steam. Wonders went very late in general, and at one point I thought how am I going to stand a chance here and then noticed the AP was still up for grabs. Spent 15 turns of self-research chugging to theology but just missed the wonder. Not sure if the game is winnable with my land-of-no-hammers now, but I will definitely try it again. Maybe practise my cheesemongering.
 
840AD:

Spoiler :
This one is pretty tough as immortal goes, imo. The lack of space really limits the options, though I see obsolete and TMIT came up with creative solutions. For my part, I figured it had to be a rush when I saw how close Asoka was. I teched BW and saw no copper, then AH so I could settle the pig spot while praying for horses. Still, it took forever to build 16 chariots due to the lack of hammers and forests. Losses were pretty massive (where did he get guerilla2 archers?!:eek:) and I ran out of steam after taking the floodplain city and the capital. I managed to get him down to 1 city around the time I crawled to the Aesthetics-Alpha trade and took peace for Asoka's techs.

At this point my econ is still garbage, still don't have CS. I will almost certainly lose Lib to Cyrus. I'm way behind in tech but I think I've got the land to go for a Cavalry war. Managed to get Parth and GLib while in OR and Judaism but I had to switch back to no religion after Sury converted to Confucianism. Asoka's last two cities vassaled to Cyrus but whatever. I will probably go for Sury first.
 

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Sadly, they're also axe-less.

Never had good success rushing high level AI with them unless abusing marathon...or really using them for anything but defensive purposes. Between CG III (or guerrilla II) archers and these guys though, it's at least hard to lose cities for a while. Diplo is still better than relying on them though, which is why I don't like this leader a whole lot overall, excepting PHI.

Not that you need any traits or uniques to get things done.
 
Played a bit from the autosave.

Spoiler :
Tried the dog soldier rush, wow do they suck. 7 of them managed to take India's first city from 1 archer with only 3 deaths. Capital is on a hill with 3 archers so basically invincible to my super warriors.

I will play on later today but not looking like a very good game for someone just starting to play on immortal.
 
Ugh! Tough map... :sad: This is already my second attempt! :mischief:

35bc - Emporer/Epic

Spoiler :
First attempt at this map was a failed rush, so this time after reading a few reports decided to give the GreatLightHouse a whirl.

Teching has been strong, but really I have very little land, managed to squeeze 5 cities, 3 on the mainland and 2 on the western island. A city of Asoka's flipped to me making for a total of 6 cities.

Built the Greatlighthouse in the capital and the Great Merchant I got several turns later was used to bulb Metal Casting so have made a start on the Collosuss. Teched through Aesthetics and Drama, Music is up next. I've traded aesthetics around and will be trading MC now that colossus is well under way and I still have Drama to trade around after that.

It's one big Buddist love fest at the moment although Rags is stirring things up, looking at the situation here I think I might have to go Cultural Vic, I have access to 4 religions so far, would prefer 9 cities but nevermind. Once music is in I'll make a start on the Sistine chapel.

Empire...

IU_XLI_Groo_001.jpg



Tech...

IU_XLI_Groo_002.jpg



Glance...

IU_XLI_Groo_003.jpg
 

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